Compressed air winterization at a gas station?

[thoer]

Originally Posted by Jim Bennett

If you forgo the drip, you are allowed to drive home after. Just a minor discomfort is all.

Hell, then you miss the only few good moments of the whole ordeal!

[nathanj04011]

I used to use antifreeze in our Casita, but stopped the last few years we had it. It did not have the EZ thingy and thus I would have to put it in the freshwater tank. It was difficult to get the bleach taste out of the water, after I dumped the antifreeze, and was a general all around pain.

I got the EZ thingy on the Escape but last fall still used the air compressor. I have a rather large Home Depot compressor (30 gallons?) that I bought just for winterizing the trailer and last year I bought a quick release winterizing RV plug that the hose snaps on to. I have always set the pressure to 50 psi.

The neat thing about the quick release plug and the large tank is that it has become a one person job. Being a little on the "more is better" side, I let the air run until there is no water coming out of the faucets, not even mist. That way, I have peace of mind knowing nothing is in the hoses to freeze.

The beauty of it is, in the spring, there is nothing to do, other than fill the hot water tank. Although, I might add a little yucky bleach to the fresh water tank to kill any whatevers that might be in there. We don't use the freshwater tank to drink out of anyway, but we do use it to brush our teeth. We take jugs of water for drinking.

[paulk]

Originally Posted by Vermilye

If you can winterize at home (don't need a compressor small enough to carry in the trailer) this Harbor Freight oilless compressor is often on sale for $39.00. Combine that with one of their 20% off coupons, and you have a low cost solution. I've been using this compressor set at 40PSI to blow out the lines on my 17B for a couple of years & it works well. The only antifreeze I use is for the traps.

If you need to blowout the trailer without a partner, this adapter will be useful since it let you make a hands free connection between the compressor & the city water fill connector.

Nice. At $40, it should cost less than using antifreeze over time. The Escape winterization instructions say to use 2 gallons of RV antifreeze for compressed air and 4-6 gallons if you are just using RV antifreeze. If RV antifreeze is say, $4 a bottle, then the 3 gallon difference would cost $12 extra a year, and the compressor would pay for itself in 4-ish years.

Is anyone aware of a 12 volt oilless compressor that might work? Putting aside the mattress inflators that may or may not work, if a compressor used 12 volts and 15 amps, it would be just slightly below the same wattage as some of the other compressors that I've seen mentioned on these forums as working.

[thoer]

I've got this one - very satisfied with it. Got it on sale at Woot for $25 :Slime COMP06

[gbaglo]

Originally Posted by paulk

Nice. At $40, it should cost less than using antifreeze over time. The Escape winterization instructions say to use 2 gallons of RV antifreeze for compressed air and 4-6 gallons if you are just using RV antifreeze.

I use nowhere near that amount. If you are pouring it into the fresh water tank, you might need that much so that the pump can suck it up. I would not do that.
You can disconnect the pump from the fresh water and pump directly from a container of anti-freeze.
Or, as I do, use a manual pump to pump anti-freeze in through the city water inlet. Takes a few strokes to have pink stuff coming out of a tap. My wife opens the taps, one at a time, and shouts when she sees pink, then moves on to the next.

[AKCamper]

Last fall I winterized our 19 that is located in Montana using the air blowout method. I also pumped RV antifreeze through the lines after doing that (I know it is OCD). The question I have is: the winterizing with antifreeze instructions on Escape's website says to pour one gallon of antifreeze in the black water tank and the blow out the lines method does not say anything about putting antifreeze in the black or gray water tanks. I only filled the traps with antifreeze. Will I have a problem? I know it got really cold in Montana this year. I drained the tanks really well (even on a slight grade) but from everything some of the posts say there may still have been some water in the gray tank. Words of wisdom?

[cpaharley2008]

One gal. of rv antifreeze to wintertize either my 21 and 19 and pour residual into traps using the on board e-z- winterizing set up.

[War Eagle]

Quick heads-up to those thinking of using air pressure for the first time to blow out their water lines. That check valve at the city water inlet also checks back-flow of air, too. So if you blow in 30-40 PSI of air with no tap open, that full amount of pressure will still be in the line when you do open the first tap, and you can get a surprisingly strong spurt of water and air. So either open one tap prior to applying air, or have a roll of paper towels handy. Don't ask me how I learned that. Also, I think the weakest link in my current plumbing system is a threaded clear plastic settling bowl located just under the screen that filters water going into the 12V water pump. If I were to mistakenly pump too many PSI of air into the system, I'm pretty sure that would be the first thing to blow, but I hope I never find out if I'm right.

[rubicon327]

Originally Posted by paulk

The Escape winterization instructions say to use 2 gallons of RV antifreeze for compressed air and 4-6 gallons if you are just using RV antifreeze.

The 4-6 gallons is an outdated methodology with antifreeze in the fresh water tank. See this post that I made on another thread which should clear it all up for you.

www.escapeforum.org/forums/f12/first-time-owner-may-have-to-winterize-while-on-the-road-seeks-advice-9103-4.html#post170309

[rubicon327]

Originally Posted by War Eagle

Also, I think the weakest link in my current plumbing system is a threaded clear plastic settling bowl located just under the screen that filters water going into the 12V water pump. If I were to mistakenly pump too many PSI of air into the system, I'm pretty sure that would be the first thing to blow, but I hope I never find out if I'm right.

War Eagle, the pump check valve should prevent the filter bowl from seeing the compressor pressure. The line between the freshwater tank and the pump is the only one that should not be under pressure. If this check valve wasn't working you would be filling and overflowing your fresh tank with water whenever connected to city water and when winterizing you would have air pressure back feeding into the fresh water tank and would probably hear and feel air coming out of the tank overflow right beside the fresh water inlet where the compressor is connected.

[paulk]

Originally Posted by rubicon327

The Viair works because it has adequate pressure and he did one line at a time (indicative of low cfm). Trailer winterizing methods with compressed air generally recommend 30-40 psi. You might not need that much but I am sure you need more than 0.25. The onboard pump won't completely clear the lines for you so there is more than residual to push and there is also other resistance like the faucet or shower head that must be overcome. For $12 go ahead and give it a shot but don't be surprised if it is not up to the task.

By the way, I blow lines out and then add antifreeze. Overkill yes, but also never going to have a problem.

And the final verdict is.... no dice. You may now say "I told you so".

Here were my findings, in case anyone else is tempted to try this experiment:

I bought this 12 volt air mattress inflator:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

When it arrived, I found that the biggest air inflator attachment perfectly fit my Camco water bandit, so I used that. I reasoned that I'd have much better CFMs if I didn't pass the air through the tiny hole used with a regular air compressor.

My first experiment was to clear the water in my 25' hose. The pump was powerful enough to do this even with the hose raised slightly. So far so good.

I then cleared all my water lines using the built in pump. I reasoned that I'd then only have to clear the tiny bit of water from the pipe going from the city water intake to the main lines, which is just a few inches.

I opened my sink tap, attached the water bandit to the city water intake, attached the air inflator to the water bandit, and then started the air inflator. Nothing happened.

Looking at the system, I'm pretty sure the issue is that the one way valve at the city water intake requires a certain amount of pressure to open up. This inflator does not seem to provide sufficient pressure to overcome the valve. I tried blowing into the water bandit, and that didn't exert sufficient pressure either.

[skiman]

For an air compressor to work effectively, it needs a reservoir tank to provide a surge of air to clear the lines. Many tank type air compressors have an oil lubed air pump and a small amount of oil always makes its way into the air. Many gas stations would use that type. I would not want to put that into my trailer's water system. Even if you have an oil free compressor, their will always be a certain amount of condensation in the tank and that sets around and is nasty. If you have worked around industry, and have seen some of the nasty liquid that comes out of factory air lines, you know what I mean.

That said, I'll take antifreeze any day. Pump some antifreeze through the hose inlet. Antifreeze in the tank. Pink out of each device and you're good to go. Twenty bucks worth of antifreeze does it.

[Jim Bennett]

Originally Posted by paulk

I bought this 12 volt air mattress inflator:

These pumps work on high volume, but very low pressure. I would doubt most make it beyond a couple pounds. To blow out a water system will require a lot more pressure than that.

[escape artist]

Hi: paulk... What I do with the Kobalt 12V air pump I bought at Lowes is add up to 40 psi. to my air pig, open all the taps and shower heads then use the tank to blow out the water. Make sure you hold open the toilet flush handle and then remove the screen in the water inlet and push in the nylon plunger to release any trapped water in there. Alf
escape artist N.S. of Lake Erie

[rubicon327]

Originally Posted by paulk

And the final verdict is.... no dice. You may now say "I told you so".

Paul: Thanks for reporting back on your experiment. Hopefully we've now saved some others from trying this. I commend you for trying to make it work even with information to the contrary. As an engineer I have some experience getting water through pipes and have winterized a few trailers and sprinkler systems. As you certainly found out you need adequate pressure and flow rate for the application. For example, the compressor that works well for the trailer is inadequate for my sprinkler system. I have the pressure, but not enough volume. You had the opposite problem. Maybe enough CFM to do one line at a time, but not enough pressure.

[paulk]

Originally Posted by rubicon327

Paul: Thanks for reporting back on your experiment. Hopefully we've now saved some others from trying this. I commend you for trying to make it work even with information to the contrary. As an engineer I have some experience getting water through pipes and have winterized a few trailers and sprinkler systems. As you certainly found out you need adequate pressure and flow rate for the application. For example, the compressor that works well for the trailer is inadequate for my sprinkler system. I have the pressure, but not enough volume. You had the opposite problem. Maybe enough CFM to do one line at a time, but not enough pressure.

I figured it was a high risk endevor, but low enough cost ($9) to make it worth trying. I really liked the possibility of having a small compact tool for handling this that I could leave permanently in the trailer.

I haven't fully decided yet, but I'll probably go the RV antifreeze route, making sure to get a product that's only proplyene glycol based instead of the type that has some alcohol in it, mainly for taste.

[rubicon327]

Originally Posted by paulk

I figured it was a high risk endevor, but low enough cost ($9) to make it worth trying. I really liked the possibility of having a small compact tool for handling this that I could leave permanently in the trailer.

I haven't fully decided yet, but I'll probably go the RV antifreeze route, making sure to get a product that's only proplyene glycol based instead of the type that has some alcohol in it, mainly for taste.

If you are looking for the simplest method and something that can be left in the trailer I think Glenn's manual hand pump (post #45) takes the cake. Have 1 gallon of antifreeze on hand as well and you could winterize anytime/anywhere without worrying about electric pumps or compressors.

[cpaharley2008]

....or use the optional ez-winterizing set up and then you can use the toilet in the winter via leaving the hose inside the bottle and flushing with antifreeze, if needed.

[Jimrules]

Here's what I made.
It's a filter regulator with air fittings on the way in and water fittings on the way out.

It not only regulates air pressure on the outlet, it spins the air to throw out heavy stuff (water/oil) and then discharges through an internal filter. We use the same kind of thing to protect sensitive equipment at work. I figure it's enough to avoid any serious contamination.

I can use it with a regular air fitting or pop on the adapter for a schrader valve if using an air chuck.

We didn't need to use it on the road when we came back in March. I did however try it out on our second night at home when temps went below freezing.

[Dave Walter]

Originally Posted by Jimrules

Here's what I made.
It's a filter regulator with air fittings on the way in and water fittings on the way out.

It not only regulates air pressure on the outlet, it spins the air to throw out heavy stuff (water/oil) and then discharges through an internal filter. We use the same kind of thing to protect sensitive equipment at work. I figure it's enough to avoid any serious contamination.

I can use it with a regular air fitting or pop on the adapter for a schrader valve if using an air chuck.

We didn't need to use it on the road when we came back in March. I did however try it out on our second night at home when temps went below freezing.


Attachment 24055

Looks good.