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Old 02-01-2017, 07:29 PM   #1
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Compressed air winterization at a gas station?

Properly sized air compressors seem to be fairly expensive and bulky. Instead, I was wondering if it would be possible to winterize a trailer at one of those tire inflation stations that you see at many gas stations? I'm guessing these industrial units are probably not oilless, so it would be good to get an oil extraction filter as mentioned in http://www.escapeforum.org/forums/f1...ng-8160.html#9
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Old 02-01-2017, 07:38 PM   #2
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Too many quarters for what 3 minutes. May take you 5 times to do the whole unit. Just get the ez winterization option, uses the on board pump
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Old 02-01-2017, 07:53 PM   #3
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I would also try one of the air mattress inflators; not a lot of pressure but a lot of volume. I have a 120v unit which is very powerful and a less powerful Coleman brand which runs off of 4 D cell batteries.
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Old 02-01-2017, 08:28 PM   #4
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Many of us use no compressed air, only anti-freeze. Escape will now supply a kit for simply pumping the anti-freeze with your water pump up into lines, bypassing hot water tank. None in fresh tank.
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Old 02-01-2017, 08:39 PM   #5
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I have a 6 gal. compressor, but I'm back to using a pump and RV anti-freeze because when I open the taps and see pink fluid coming out, I know the job is done.
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Old 02-01-2017, 08:44 PM   #6
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Going to be a bear to do so, you'll have to jury rig a tire valve onto the water hose connection, then hold the tire inflator onto the valve while your partner bleeds all the water out of the system. It'd all depend on how much volume the service station provides. If I didn't want to spring for a good portable air compressor, I'd go the anti freeze route like Jim mentions.
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Old 02-01-2017, 09:07 PM   #7
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I would also try one of the air mattress inflators; not a lot of pressure but a lot of volume. I have a 120v unit which is very powerful and a less powerful Coleman brand which runs off of 4 D cell batteries.
Interesting. Given earlier discussions about big horsepower range air compressors, I hadn't considered small air mattress inflators.

I suppose, from a physics point of view, almost all of the pressure that would be required to push out water from a hose would not be from friction between the water and the hose, but rather from the difference in height between the intake and outtake ends, and the weight of water in between those two points. 1 foot of water exerts 0.43 PSI, and since the distance from the city water connection to the top of the sink faucet is maybe 2-3 feet (as a guess), you'd need a maximum of about 1 PSI. You don't even need that much since the instructions say to use the Escape pump first to pre-clear the lines, so you should only have to push up a residual amount of water and therefore a fractional PSI. Once the lines are clear, you'd prefer a high CFM pump over a high PSI pump to blow out any droplets and the water at any low points in the system.

This V1 mini air inflator might suit the bill. It's tiny, only 0.4 lb in weight, 12 volt, $12, has 0.25 PSI, and 3.7 CFM:

https://www.amazon.com/V1-Motor-Port.../dp/B0122A2XM8

So my next question would be, if you use an air mattress inflator, do you still need to worry about oil contaminating the water lines? Good oil filters seem to be expensive, although they are thankfully small and light.
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Old 02-01-2017, 09:21 PM   #8
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Going to be a bear to do so, you'll have to jury rig a tire valve onto the water hose connection, then hold the tire inflator onto the valve while your partner bleeds all the water out of the system. It'd all depend on how much volume the service station provides. If I didn't want to spring for a good portable air compressor, I'd go the anti freeze route like Jim mentions.
Sure, it might take a few minutes, which is probably longer than winterizing with antifreeze. If I understand the process correctly though, I think it should work if I leave all the taps open, go to the exterior, attach a city water intake to Schrader valve connection (Campco makes one), then hold the station's tire inflator to it for a few minutes. I'm leaving out the oil filter, but I haven't figured out yet if that's required on these industrial units.
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Old 02-01-2017, 09:31 PM   #9
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Interesting. Given earlier discussions about big horsepower range air compressors, I hadn't considered small air mattress inflators.

I suppose, from a physics point of view, almost all of the pressure that would be required to push out water from a hose would not be from friction between the water and the hose, but rather from the difference in height between the intake and outtake ends, and the weight of water in between those two points. 1 foot of water exerts 0.43 PSI, and since the distance from the city water connection to the top of the sink faucet is maybe 2-3 feet (as a guess), you'd need a maximum of about 1 PSI. You don't even need that much since the instructions say to use the Escape pump first to pre-clear the lines, so you should only have to push up a residual amount of water and therefore a fractional PSI. Once the lines are clear, you'd prefer a high CFM pump over a high PSI pump to blow out any droplets and the water at any low points in the system.

This V1 mini air inflator might suit the bill. It's tiny, only 0.4 lb in weight, 12 volt, $12, has 0.25 PSI, and 3.7 CFM:

https://www.amazon.com/V1-Motor-Port.../dp/B0122A2XM8

So my next question would be, if you use an air mattress inflator, do you still need to worry about oil contaminating the water lines? Good oil filters seem to be expensive, although they are thankfully small and light.
I think in reality you would be better served with more pressure and volume. I don't see this working well or at all. Plus how would you connect it to the city water line? It only has fittings for tubes or mattress. Others have mentioned trying a Viair 12V compressor but not sure how they work in practice as I haven't seen a first hand report. The small compressor designs are oil-less.
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Old 02-01-2017, 09:35 PM   #10
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I think in reality you would be better served with more pressure and volume. I don't see this working well or at all. Plus how would you connect it to the city water line? It only has fittings for tubes or mattress. Others have mentioned trying a Viair 12V compressor but not sure how they work in practice as I haven't seen a first hand report. The small compressor designs are oil-less.
According to this post http://www.escapeforum.org/forums/f1...9103-4.html#37 the Viair model 88P was judged as sufficient to winterize the trailer. That model has a CFM of 1.47 CFM, which is lower than the much smaller and less costly V1 motor, albeit at a much higher PSI.

I wouldn't naturally assume this would work either, but SFDavis50 seems to have experience using smaller pumps if I'm reading his reply correctly, and I'm just trying to figure out why this might be.

The connection issue is still something to figure out..

For $12, I might be willing to try it out though to find out, unless someone has a counter example
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Old 02-01-2017, 09:38 PM   #11
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I'm not of a mind to experiment with winterizing methods. I know that a 6 gal. compressor has the volume and pressure to handle the job and that RV anti-freeze also works well.
And, I have no plans to watch The Bachelor.
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Old 02-01-2017, 09:55 PM   #12
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I'm not of a mind to experiment with winterizing methods. I know that a 6 gal. compressor has the volume and pressure to handle the job and that RV anti-freeze also works well.
And, I have no plans to watch The Bachelor.
Hi Glenn, we have a compressor too but I don't use it to winterize. I use the
Pink stuff and like you I know we're good to well below zero. The winterizing valve is fast ,
simple, positive and affordable. What's not to like? I flush with 1/2. Cup of bleach in the spring. I drink and cook with bottled water and that's what Jake prefers too. Either way you look at the show the Bachelor you know it could winterize a trailer.
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Old 02-01-2017, 10:13 PM   #13
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... If I understand the process correctly though, I think it should work if I leave all the taps open, ...
Paul, Open one tap at a time to clear one line at a time. Otherwise, all your air will go through the line with the least resistance, and water will remain in all the other lines. Also, when clearing the shower lines, I go ahead and take the head off the shower hose and lay the open end of the shower hose on the floor of the shower just to make sure that it all drains and residual water in the line doesn't back-drain into a low region and be trapped there. Don't ask me how I learned the need to do that. Speaking of trapped, be sure to either add RV antifreeze to your sink and shower P-trap or aspirate the water out of them with a suction pump of some sort (like a 20 cc syringe with 10" piece of tubing attached).
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Old 02-01-2017, 10:35 PM   #14
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Many of us use no compressed air, only anti-freeze. Escape will now supply a kit for simply pumping the anti-freeze with your water pump up into lines, bypassing hot water tank. None in fresh tank.
Reading previous threads on this forum, I thought that using RV antifreeze left an unpleasant taste in the pipes for months afterwards, which put me down the path of considering the compressed air method. I've subsequently learned that there are many types of RV antifreeze though, and I'm not sure if propylene glycol based antifreezes leave as much aftertaste. Perhaps this would be a good point for me to re-examine those earlier assumptions.
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Old 02-01-2017, 10:36 PM   #15
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Paul, Open one tap at a time to clear one line at a time. Otherwise, all your air will go through the line with the least resistance, and water will remain in all the other lines. Also, when clearing the shower lines, I go ahead and take the head off the shower hose and lay the open end of the shower hose on the floor of the shower just to make sure that it all drains and residual water in the line doesn't back-drain into a low region and be trapped there. Don't ask me how I learned the need to do that. Speaking of trapped, be sure to either add RV antifreeze to your sink and shower P-trap or aspirate the water out of them with a suction pump of some sort (like a 20 cc syringe with 10" piece of tubing attached).
Good tips. Thanks!
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Old 02-01-2017, 10:48 PM   #16
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According to this post http://www.escapeforum.org/forums/f1...9103-4.html#37 the Viair model 88P was judged as sufficient to winterize the trailer. That model has a CFM of 1.47 CFM, which is lower than the much smaller and less costly V1 motor, albeit at a much higher PSI.

I wouldn't naturally assume this would work either, but SFDavis50 seems to have experience using smaller pumps if I'm reading his reply correctly, and I'm just trying to figure out why this might be.

The connection issue is still something to figure out..

For $12, I might be willing to try it out though to find out, unless someone has a counter example
The Viair works because it has adequate pressure and he did one line at a time (indicative of low cfm). Trailer winterizing methods with compressed air generally recommend 30-40 psi. You might not need that much but I am sure you need more than 0.25. The onboard pump won't completely clear the lines for you so there is more than residual to push and there is also other resistance like the faucet or shower head that must be overcome. For $12 go ahead and give it a shot but don't be surprised if it is not up to the task.

By the way, I blow lines out and then add antifreeze. Overkill yes, but also never going to have a problem.
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Old 02-01-2017, 10:51 PM   #17
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Reading previous threads on this forum, I thought that using RV antifreeze left an unpleasant taste in the pipes for months afterwards,
Some people may have extremely sensitive taste buds, but I've no problem with it after a simple flushing of the lines. You don't put it in the fresh water tank, or water heater. Just the lines are filled ( and the drains ) and it takes very little to fill the lines.
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Old 02-01-2017, 10:56 PM   #18
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... I've subsequently learned that there are many types of RV antifreeze though, and I'm not sure if propylene glycol based antifreezes leave as much aftertaste. ...
On the other hand, I've read where alcohol-based RV antifreeze can hasten deterioration of rubber gaskets within the plumbing system. I don't think there is a perfect method out there. Just for the heck of it this Fall, I first flushed our system out with an alcohol based antifreeze then blew that out with compressed air. I'm afraid to search for that on the internet for fear I'll discover that's the absolute worst thing you can do.
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Old 02-01-2017, 11:00 PM   #19
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Well, they use propylene glycol in ice cream, so best worry about your heart valves.
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Old 02-01-2017, 11:01 PM   #20
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Don't use the compressed air from a gas station. It has too much pressure! The high pressure can blow a a pipe or seal. When using compressed air, it should be set to 30lbs.
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