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Old 12-06-2015, 11:35 PM   #41
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LOL! Thanks, Dave. Hope to meet you on the road as well.
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Old 12-07-2015, 01:44 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Bennett View Post
How many people actually check the torque on all your cars and trucks after wheel changes? They are no different than our trailer tires, and it is recommended to check torques on them to. Yet, many worry only about our trailers for some reason.
I read recently, either here or on fgrv.com, that there is some important design difference between auto and RV hubs, something about one being hub-centric and the other not, and that this affects lug nut retention somehow. Sorry I'm fuzzy on this, my takeaway was "they're different and trailer lugs need to be checked more often".
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Old 12-07-2015, 01:56 PM   #43
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Here is more than you probably want to know about hub vs lug centric : hub-centric vs lug-centric wheels
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Old 12-07-2015, 02:20 PM   #44
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Good info! Thanks!
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Old 12-07-2015, 05:36 PM   #45
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The linked article doesn't explain the reason that lug-centric wheels need their nuts re-torqued: they are normally not seated properly on first installation. Without the hub locating the wheel precisely centred on the hub, the tapered nuts are not likely to be seated all the way down into the conical seats in the wheel, so as the wheel is used it shifts a bit and nuts become a bit loose... so the nuts need to be re-torqued (although hopefully only once until the wheel is next removed).

With a hub-centric wheel and tapered nuts & seats (the normal setup for a modern car), the nuts are more likely to be seated properly the first time, although it does take a little jiggling when seating the first nut to get the wheel turned to the right position.

With straight-shank/flat-seat (or "mag" style) nuts (now a rare setup) it's trivial to get all the nuts seated properly on the first attempt. These work with either lug-centric or hub-centric wheels, but hub-centric makes installation easier (since the hub holds the wheel up).
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Old 12-07-2015, 07:18 PM   #46
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So...probably a dumb question...but, if hub-centric is better, which it sounds like it is, why don't all modern setups use this, including our beloved Escapes?
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Old 12-07-2015, 07:25 PM   #47
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wheels

I think most trailers use after market wheels that fit many hubs so they only worry about the bolt pattern. This is also true for autos. I prefer a manufacturers wheels for a car so the hub does some of the work to support the weight.
Jack, tired of fitting parts to old cars.
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Old 12-07-2015, 07:54 PM   #48
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As to the original question of torque wrench recommendations, first, I'm no professional mechanic, second, I'm a big believer in torque wrenches for things that specify specific torque values, third, I bought a honkin' big Kobalt clicker from Lowes to torque the bolts that hold my ball mount on the receiver deeliebob on my Andersen hitch setup. I have two other torque wrenches, but neither went up to 150 ft-lbs, so got this one and it does lug nuts and the chain tension on the Andersen too, one and done. Thank God for the front storage box for things like this though, along with all the other tools and "outside stuff" that I put in there!
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Old 12-07-2015, 09:16 PM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sclifrickson View Post
So...probably a dumb question...but, if hub-centric is better, which it sounds like it is, why don't all modern setups use this, including our beloved Escapes?
Not a dumb question at all.
Bluntly:
Escape uses the same types of running gear (in the best-known brand) as the rest of the light trailer industry; however, that industry is based on using the cheapest junk possible. Not using hub-piloting saves one machining operation, and thus a dollar or so, and allows use of random wheels not matched to the hubs (other than the number of studs/bolts and the bolt circle diameter).

More charitably:
In trailers, keeping both initial and repair/replacement cost down by maintaining consistency of design (to the point of making no changes for decades) is more valued than long life, performance, or ease of maintenance. Without hub piloting, any wheel with a centre hole big enough to clear the protruding part of the hub works, minimizing the stock of wheels which must be kept by manufacturers, distributors, and retailers.

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Originally Posted by azjack View Post
I think most trailers use after market wheels that fit many hubs so they only worry about the bolt pattern. This is also true for autos. I prefer a manufacturers wheels ...
I agree... but with cars you can buy a centering ring to make up the difference between the generic big hole and your car's hub, while with trailers there is normally no machined boss for the wheel to accurately ride against.

Some trailer hubs/drums - and those of some German cars - have threaded holes (instead of studs) so the wheels are held on by bolts (instead of nuts). Without the ability to "hang" the wheel on the studs mounting the wheel is a pain, so it is made somewhat better by using hub-piloted wheels - even on trailers.
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Old 12-07-2015, 09:36 PM   #50
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Quote:
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Some trailer hubs/drums - and those of some German cars - have threaded holes (instead of studs) so the wheels are held on by bolts (instead of nuts). Without the ability to "hang" the wheel on the studs mounting the wheel is a pain, so it is made somewhat better by using hub-piloted wheels - even on trailers.
The Al-Ko axle on my Scamp was this type. What a PITA changing tires or greasing the wheel bearings.
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Old 12-17-2015, 03:40 PM   #51
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Hi: All... Got my bearings packed and brakes serviced for 98 bucks tx inc. So I figured I need a re-torque so my RVTech suggested at the first rest stop on the way South. All well and good but I didn't have a Torque Wrench.
Crafty Tar up here put them on sale just for me...1/2 price, but my local didn't have any so I drive 20 mi. to London and get the 3/8ths drive cause it'll fit in the trailer easier. Get home and although it's rated from 30- 250 inch pounds... the fine print states "Not for use on lug nuts" HUH? Don't they have lug nuts in Taiwan? Alf
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Old 12-17-2015, 03:58 PM   #52
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I would think at over 200 ft-lbs, a 3/8 drive would get twisted right off. My truck calls for 140 ft-lbs at the wheel and you are starting to put some pressure into it to get to the "click". But I would have to assume that they know what they are doing. Loren
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Old 12-17-2015, 03:58 PM   #53
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I would guess it's their way of dodging liability? Lawyers :-/
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Old 12-17-2015, 04:01 PM   #54
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Torque wrenches come in inch lbs and foot lbs. You need ft lbs for lug nuts.
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Old 12-17-2015, 04:05 PM   #55
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Quote:
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Torque wrenches come in inch lbs and foot lbs. You need ft lbs for lug nuts.

Nice catch. 90 ft-lbs (typical torque value for lug nuts) is 1080 in-lbs. Your new wrench ain't up to that, sorry.
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Old 12-17-2015, 04:05 PM   #56
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I think you want the 1/2" ( on sale for $2 more than the 3/8" )

  • 1/2" Drive Torque Wrench, with 20-250 ft-lbs (33.9-345.7 Nm) torque setting
  • Features a plastic grip handle
  • Ideal for heavy automotive applications requiring foot-pound torque applications such as lug nut settings for tire changes
  • Twist lock collar allows for easy setting for torque application and helps prevent accidental change of setting while in use
  • Audible and mechanical torque indicators
  • Lifetime manufacturer's warranty
  • 90-day calibration warranty
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Old 12-17-2015, 04:40 PM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gbaglo View Post
I think you want the 1/2" ( on sale for $2 more than the 3/8" )

  • 1/2" Drive Torque Wrench, with 20-250 ft-lbs (33.9-345.7 Nm) torque setting
  • Features a plastic grip handle
  • Ideal for heavy automotive applications requiring foot-pound torque applications such as lug nut settings for tire changes
  • Twist lock collar allows for easy setting for torque application and helps prevent accidental change of setting while in use
  • Audible and mechanical torque indicators
  • Lifetime manufacturer's warranty
  • 90-day calibration warranty
Hi: gbaglo... Guess I need a tool that's up to the job!!! I'll need 1/2 drive sockets too. Alf
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Old 12-17-2015, 04:42 PM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sclifrickson View Post
Nice catch. 90 ft-lbs (typical torque value for lug nuts) is 1080 in-lbs. Your new wrench ain't up to that, sorry.
Hi: sclifrickson... Not the first time there's been a wrench tossed into my plans!!! Alf
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Old 12-17-2015, 05:03 PM   #59
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Originally Posted by escape artist View Post
Hi: gbaglo... Guess I need a tool that's up to the job!!! I'll need 1/2 drive sockets too. Alf
escape artist N.S. of Lake Erie
I just have the torque wrench and a single socket to fit the lug nuts.
I have other socket wrenches and sockets, but they stay home.
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Old 12-17-2015, 05:54 PM   #60
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Alf, for handling my big nuts, I have the following. To remove lug nuts, 1/2 breaker bar with 6 inch extension and the right socket for the lug nut. For torquing down, the same socket and breaker bar to seat and my 30ft.Lb to 150 ft. Lb click stop torque wrench to final set, and finally a 1/2 inch drive 1 1/16 socket for the water heater anode. I think it's 1 1/16 might check that. If you only need a single socket, and then only rarely, you can often go to a pawn shop where they'll have a bucket full and let you pick through them. That's if you don't want to break up your or haul your entire presentation set.
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