water lines in heated space?

[jmcrv2017]

Hi Escape RV friends,

we have an escape 19 and do winter camping for skiing. Our trailer has extra insulation and double pane windows, and underbelly spray foam. Unfortunately we didn't buy holding tank heat padding (we should considering most of our camping are in winter).

Our camp site has full hookup. Since there are going to be 5 days sub-freezing temperature(high at 30-32F, low at 17-24F), we add anti-freeze into gray water and black water tanks. We are still using it, just keep usage minimum.

For fresh water tank, I know it is located outside of trailer but within the underbelly foam. Can we still use it with water pump? with hot water tank (under queue bed so it is in heated space) always on. I am not sure about all the water lines, are they all in heated space? I open a crack for cabinet door under kitchen sink and wide open cabinet door under the bed. Will this be enough to prevent the plumbing system get damage it?

Thanks,
Jing

[Eggscape]

Sounds like you have everything under control.
The only fresh water line outside of the trailer is the line that goes to the bottom of the tank.
I am not sure how good this and the tank drain is covered from freezing or allowing cold into that part of the tank.
This drivers side rear area of the tank is the area to look for freezing.
I must add... that I have never camped below freezing.

[jmcrv2017]

Originally Posted by Eggscape

Sounds like you have everything under control.
The only fresh water line outside of the trailer is the line that goes to the bottom of the tank.
I am not sure how good this and the tank drain is covered from freezing or allowing cold into that part of the tank.
This drivers side rear area of the tank is the area to look for freezing.
I must add... that I have never camped below freezing.

Thanks for your reply and picture. In your picture, the white plug, is that fresh water tank drain? And black plug, which you have the water pipe disconnected(for winterizing?), are hot water tank drain, so called "low point drain"?

[yardsale]

Originally Posted by jmcrv2017

Hi Escape RV friends,

we have an escape 19 and do winter camping for skiing. Our trailer has extra insulation and double pane windows, and underbelly spray foam. Unfortunately we didn't buy holding tank heat padding (we should considering most of our camping are in winter).

Our camp site has full hookup. Since there are going to be 5 days sub-freezing temperature(high at 30-32F, low at 17-24F), we add anti-freeze into gray water and black water tanks. We are still using it, just keep usage minimum.

For fresh water tank, I know it is located outside of trailer but within the underbelly foam. Can we still use it with water pump? with hot water tank (under queue bed so it is in heated space) always on. I am not sure about all the water lines, are they all in heated space? I open a crack for cabinet door under kitchen sink and wide open cabinet door under the bed. Will this be enough to prevent the plumbing system get damage it?

Thanks,
Jing

If I were doing a longer term winter camping set up again I would invest in a fabric skirt around the perimeter and a low level heat source underneath such as a 100w light bulb. Remember with your set up your discharge valves are still outside the heated space and will not drain even if you have a high percentage of antifreeze in the tanks. It becomes sludge like and will not flow. Those who have used skirting in the winter sing its praises.

[davidmurphy02]

Originally Posted by jmcrv2017

Thanks for your reply and picture. In your picture, the white plug, is that fresh water tank drain? And black plug, which you have the water pipe disconnected(for winterizing?), are hot water tank drain, so called "low point drain"?

The white valve is the fresh water drain - if you have the spray foam insulation that should be the only thing exposed on your fresh water tank. To the left of it is the hose that goes from the fresh water tank up to the water pump. With the spray foam insulation it is normally completely enclosed and has some protection from freezing.

You should be able to use your water pump and fresh water tank normally - if the temps were extreme and the supply line from the tank to the pump froze you'd know because the pump would stop being able to draw water, as long as your pump is drawing water you are fine.

[Eggscape]

What he said...

[rubicon327]

Originally Posted by jmcrv2017

Our camp site has full hookup. Since there are going to be 5 days sub-freezing temperature(high at 30-32F, low at 17-24F), we add anti-freeze into gray water and black water tanks. We are still using it, just keep usage minimum.

For fresh water tank, I know it is located outside of trailer but within the underbelly foam. Can we still use it with water pump? with hot water tank (under queue bed so it is in heated space) always on. I am not sure about all the water lines, are they all in heated space?

If you truly have full hookups this means the city water service is still active. Could you just use a heated hose? This way the fresh water tank and pump aren’t even in the equation and all lines in use are within the heated shell. Only exposure is the actual outside hose connection...and possibly exterior shower (see below). Could disconnect hose at night if really concerned.

In lieu of heated hose some have drawn water from a small internal container via the winterizing tee connection. Or even simpler alternative is to winterize the water system and use a container of water at the sink and antifreeze to flush the toilet.

Keep in mind if you have the factory outside shower/spray port option that is susceptible to freezing. Ideally you would have the ability to drain and valve this off. Unfortunately from the factory this is not possible. I did an aftermarket install of one and incorporated a way to do this.

[cpaharley2008]

I purchased 4 shut off valves when picking up my Escape for my 2 exterior showers, have not yet installed them. Anyone know which tool I need to cut and then install the metal shut off valves, similar to the toilet shut off. Crimper or hose clamp?

[rbryan4]

Originally Posted by cpaharley2008

I purchased 4 shut off valves when picking up my Escape for my 2 exterior showers, have not yet installed them. Anyone know which tool I need to cut and then install the metal shut off valves, similar to the toilet shut off. Crimper or hose clamp?

You need a PEX crimper Jim. Decent ones are available on Amazon for around $25. Just make sure to use the rings that correspond to the size of the pex pipe.

[cpaharley2008]

Originally Posted by rbryan4

You need a PEX crimper Jim. Decent ones are available on Amazon for around $25. Just make sure to use the rings that correspond to the size of the pex pipe.

Thanks. I'll order one. What rings fit the water lines inside the Escape, 1/2"? Actually this kit kit with cutter and spare rings here https://www.amazon.com/iCrimp-Cinch-...qid=1577200461

[rbryan4]

Originally Posted by cpaharley2008

Thanks. I'll order one. What rings fit the water lines inside the Escape, 1/2"? Actually this kit kit with cutter and spare rings here https://www.amazon.com/iCrimp-Cinch-...qid=1577200461

Thought they were 3/8", but they might be 1/2". In any case, you'll be able to tell when you're cutting them. That kit you linked also had the cutter, so not bad.

[PGDriver]

Originally Posted by cpaharley2008

Thanks. I'll order one. What rings fit the water lines inside the Escape, 1/2"? Actually this kit kit with cutter and spare rings here https://www.amazon.com/iCrimp-Cinch-...qid=1577200461

Morning Jim
Yes Escape used 1/2” pex so that is what you want, handy around the house too if you do plumbing. I’d order some 1/2” and 3/4” rings then your set for just about anything anywhere.

[cpaharley2008]

Thanks everyone, now I know what I'm getting for Christmas....

[tdf-texas]

Originally Posted by cpaharley2008

I purchased 4 shut off valves when picking up my Escape for my 2 exterior showers, have not yet installed them. Anyone know which tool I need to cut and then install the metal shut off valves, similar to the toilet shut off. Crimper or hose clamp?

there are two types of PEX crimpers - like this one as there are no exposed edges to catch on stuff but both work.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

[Jim Bennett]

I know my 5.0TA, and I am guessing the 21, have water lines under the trailer to the galley. I know the run is shorter this way, and it is just about the only way with a regular dinette, but I do plan to reroute mine around the dinette before I add insulation to the underside. That may be a while though, as I am super busy with our project home right now, as well as trying to take time off to relax.

There are many different types of PEX crimpers, I have 3 in my plumbing box, though one smaller one and one really small one are 1/2" only. I have done many, many crimps over the years. Way less sweating copper slices, which is quite easy, just way more time consuming.

[rubicon327]

Originally Posted by rbryan4

Thought they were 3/8", but they might be 1/2".

I believe Escape only uses 1/2" PEX for all plumbing. That is all I've seen in our trailer and in pictures of other trailers. Someone can correct me if I'm wrong.

[rbryan4]

Originally Posted by rubicon327

I believe Escape only uses 1/2" PEX for all plumbing. That is all I've seen in our trailer and in pictures of other trailers. Someone can correct me if I'm wrong.

Yeah, you're right Dave. Just checked under my sink, half inch.

[ColoradoSwany]

We also have the exterior shower option, but have never used it. I love the idea of installing a shutoff valve inside. Then I could winterize it once and forget it. Since our 2nd Gen 19 is in storage and it is a miserable weather day, thought I would do the convenient thing and ask this knowledgeable group for advice. Anyone with a 2nd Gen 19 know if the water lines to exterior shower are in an easily accessible spot to install shutoff valves? I assume I need a valve each for hot and cold lines?

[cpaharley2008]

All depends where the shower is. In my E19 it was on the kitchen side and easily accessible from the kitchen lower cabinets. If on the driver side, the lines maybe accessible from inside the closet? Where is your shower located?

[ColoradoSwany]

Shower is on driver (bathroom) side.