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Old 03-13-2015, 01:22 AM   #121
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So is it fair to say not only do we have a unique, superior quality trailer but now it's limited edition too? We purchased our 15B trailer in November 2014 and although I absolutely LOVE it there are times I wish we would have looked closer at 17' trailer, just to have that much more room when both of us are in the trailer, more closet space and the option to have both bed and dinette up at the same time. Ultimately, the 15' was the better fit for us. Despite both trailers posting the same GVWR, after taken a few trips (including trip from Chilliwack to CALIF), I know the additional weight of the 17' would require upgrading our tow vehicle which is only a SUV with a V6 engine and I really don't want to drive a gas guzzling truck around town. We also considered not getting the b/r (again more space, less weight) but ultimately I'm glad we did. On cold, rainy nights it's been nice not having to get dressed or worse hold it all night (lol). Cleaning the black tank has become less and less stressful and I'm sure soon it will be second nature to us. And while I can understand the mentality of using campsite facilities (we often do), I can't say the same about portable port-a-potty. Where do people use it? Some things should be done behind close doors, no matter how close a couple you are.
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Old 03-13-2015, 02:07 AM   #122
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Jen and Angie, not sure what you are doing to clean your black tank but I am guessing it is way too much! We also do not want a pick-up and would rather not have a V-8 either.
A V-6, non-pick-up, can tow a 17', 19', or 21' and meet the weight requirements, depending on which V-6. You sound as though you are still very content with your 15' though. Your wonderful photos of places visited are proof that you get around with it plenty.
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Old 03-13-2015, 08:55 AM   #123
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jen & Angie View Post
...Ultimately, the 15' was the better fit for us. Despite both trailers posting the same GVWR, after taken a few trips (including trip from Chilliwack to CALIF), I know the additional weight of the 17' would require upgrading our tow vehicle which is only a SUV with a V6 engine and I really don't want to drive a gas guzzling truck around town...
You seem to be under the mistaken impression regarding size of tow vehicle required for an Escape trailer. Many on this forum are towing a 17' or even a 19' (within manufacturers recommended tow limits) using an SUV with a V6 engine (some good Toyota examples are the Rav4, Highlander, FJ Cruiser, and 4Runner). It is quite untrue that you NEED to have an 8-cyl full-size truck to tow these small fiberglass trailers.

Edit: I guess Floating Cloud and I wanted to make the same point.
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Old 03-13-2015, 09:09 AM   #124
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Old 03-13-2015, 09:47 AM   #125
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I love the 15 and think you should be very happy with your trailer. I'd treat it like an investment. It will be highly sought after on the used market if you ever sell. I agree with you on not wanting to own an oversized truck as a grocery getter. I have a very soft place in my heart for Airstreams, especially the layout of the 20 and it's galley. I can really see myself cooking in it. The storage, sink, and counter space would work very well for this chef. The only problem is that it will required a full size truck. I own a 2006 Tundra V8, which is smaller then the current generation Tundra, I like that I can parallel park it in places like NYC proper, but it's got some miles on it. I recently tested out the new Tundra and was not impressed with it's size. This August we hopefully pickup our Escape 19, and plan to tow it back East with a V6 4runner. Might not be the premier TV, but will get the job done. I don't expect any land speed records crossing any mountain passes. In a few years when it's time to retire my Tundra, I'm pretty sure it's gonna be a V6 Tacoma with a cap on the back. Enjoy your 15 and if you ever plan to upgrade, I'm sure it will sell like a hot cake.
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Old 03-13-2015, 11:43 AM   #126
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Originally Posted by Jen & Angie View Post
Despite both trailers posting the same GVWR, after taken a few trips (including trip from Chilliwack to CALIF), I know the additional weight of the 17' would require upgrading our tow vehicle ...
The Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (GVWR) is just how much the trailer is allowed to weigh, which has more to do with the axle capacity than anything else; the 15' and 17' use the same axle. For most people, this limit is irrelevant to how they use the trailer. I agree that a 17' would have been heavier, for the same level of equipment and the same amount of your stuff.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jen & Angie View Post
... I know the additional weight of the 17' would require upgrading our tow vehicle which is only a SUV with a V6 engine and I really don't want to drive a gas guzzling truck around town.
As already mentioned there are lots of SUVs with V6 engines which would handle a 17-foot just fine, but what matters is your tug, and if that specific vehicle is not suited for a 17-foot then an upsize would have been needed.

Also, as again already mentioned, the count of cylinders is only very roughly related to engine capability. I'm wondering if anyone's head will explode as they try to absorb the idea of towing a small trailer with one of the latest wave of three-cylinder engines...
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Old 03-13-2015, 12:00 PM   #127
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Old 03-13-2015, 03:19 PM   #128
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I think Jen and Angie's point isn't so much about the number of cylinders their Lexus 350 has, but instead that they feel they are just about at their particular tug's limit, based on their own experiences so far. If they've pulled the 15 around, up and down hills/mountains, and are thinking that their Lexus might not pull a 17 so well, being heavier for sure, I'd have to say for them they are right. Not everyone wants to pull at the very limit of their tug! (this isn't FGRV...)

I looked at their album. Nice photos! Makes me want to go up to the Oregon coast. And that 15 looks just right with the Lexus.
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Old 03-13-2015, 04:17 PM   #129
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Yeah, good point, Leonard.
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Old 03-13-2015, 05:36 PM   #130
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Originally Posted by LeonardS View Post
I think Jen and Angie's point isn't so much about the number of cylinders their Lexus 350 has, but instead that they feel they are just about at their particular tug's limit, based on their own experiences so far. If they've pulled the 15 around, up and down hills/mountains, and are thinking that their Lexus might not pull a 17 so well, being heavier for sure, I'd have to say for them they are right.
A Lexus RX350 has something like 270 horsepower. If the issue is going up mountains, suggesting a lack of sufficient power to handle a heavier trailer (rather than stability or control), then a faster pickup would need a lot of engine to handle the greater weight of the truck and still have more leftover to pull the trailer - certainly over 300 horsepower. That's V8 or turbo gas V6 territory, among engines available in pickup trucks. Presumably climbing performance is not the only concern, as there are SUVs (and even cars) with more power.
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Old 03-14-2015, 07:56 AM   #131
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towing

We had a Mazda MPV with a 3 litre v-6 that produced 155hp it would pull my 4000 lb boat and single axle trailer all over florida no problems whatsoever .
It's not only hp . its the brakes, suspension tires etc that make a good TV.Unless we are talking Big Foot most of these Fiberglass trailers are way under 4000lb .That is one of the reasons to buy a fiberglass trailer besides higher resale and that it won't fall apart like some of the cheaper stickies .The 15 ft escape or 17 escape can't be that much difference in weight .The 17 weighs in at under 2000 lb. the 15 should be about 1700 -1800 lb. with all your stuff ,water ,black and grey tanks still under 3000lb.
We tow our Snoozy with a 07 Sequoia and it is way overkill If we didn't have the 5000 lb boat I would downsize to a v-6 or turbo -4 to pull Snoozy. Now if someone likes a big truck or SUV that's fine I just find I like smaller cars more maneuverable better fuel economy and usually easier to avoid accidents then the big trucks that are on the road today .
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Old 03-14-2015, 04:27 PM   #132
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Originally Posted by jennykatz View Post
We had a Mazda MPV with a 3 litre v-6 that produced 155hp it would pull my 4000 lb boat and single axle trailer all over florida no problems whatsoever .
It's not only hp . its the brakes, suspension tires etc that make a good TV.Unless we are talking Big Foot most of these Fiberglass trailers are way under 4000lb .That is one of the reasons to buy a fiberglass trailer besides higher resale and that it won't fall apart like some of the cheaper stickies .The 15 ft escape or 17 escape can't be that much difference in weight .The 17 weighs in at under 2000 lb. the 15 should be about 1700 -1800 lb. with all your stuff ,water ,black and grey tanks still under 3000lb.
We tow our Snoozy with a 07 Sequoia and it is way overkill If we didn't have the 5000 lb boat I would downsize to a v-6 or turbo -4 to pull Snoozy. Now if someone likes a big truck or SUV that's fine I just find I like smaller cars more maneuverable better fuel economy and usually easier to avoid accidents then the big trucks that are on the road today .
The dry weight of the 17B is close to 2170 lbs, mine delivered with options and 2 propane tanks filled, weighed in at 2570 lbs. By the time I add water, cookware, food, etc. I estimate it'll be close to 3000 lbs. Towing over the mountains passes here in the PNW my 270 HP 4Runner will certainly it's there.
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Old 03-23-2015, 11:13 PM   #133
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Originally Posted by LeonardS View Post
I think Jen and Angie's point isn't so much about the number of cylinders their Lexus 350 has, but instead that they feel they are just about at their particular tug's limit, based on their own experiences so far. If they've pulled the 15 around, up and down hills/mountains, and are thinking that their Lexus might not pull a 17 so well, being heavier for sure, I'd have to say for them they are right. Not everyone wants to pull at the very limit of their tug! (this isn't FGRV...)

I looked at their album. Nice photos! Makes me want to go up to the Oregon coast. And that 15 looks just right with the Lexus.
Leonard, you pretty much summed up my concerns regarding going with a larger trailer using my current vehicle. I probably sound really naive but I had imagined we'd barely feel the weight of a small, fiberglass trailer but boy it takes some getting used to! I realize I have a lot to learn using the brake control, switching gears up/ down hills, and that over time the tug will (and already has) become less noticeable. The 15' is a good fit for a couple and a great introduction to trailering. Doesn't matter if it's a computer, cell phone, and now a trailer, I always experience a tinge of buyer's remorse. I too soon forget how we spent years camping in tents and sleeping on leaky air mattresses . Comparatively, our 15' feels like the Ritz Carlton.
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Old 03-23-2015, 11:29 PM   #134
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Originally Posted by OneOleMan View Post
The dry weight of the 17B is close to 2170 lbs, mine delivered with options and 2 propane tanks filled, weighed in at 2570 lbs. By the time I add water, cookware, food, etc. I estimate it'll be close to 3000 lbs. Towing over the mountains passes here in the PNW my 270 HP 4Runner will certainly it's there.
The dry weight of a 15B is 1750 lbs but after adding options, the final weight came to 2040 lbs. Knowing I'd frequently want to bring our bikes, kayak, anti-gravity chairs (lol). I thought it best to stay well under TV GVWR of 3500 lb not just for comfort level but to avoid excessive wear and tear to vehicle. This may be over cautious on my part but being a complete novice it felt safer to me. Still, the idea of having a little dinette AND a bed to lay in makes that old buyer's remorse kick in
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Old 03-23-2015, 11:51 PM   #135
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Originally Posted by Floating Cloud View Post
Jen and Angie, not sure what you are doing to clean your black tank but I am guessing it is way too much! We also do not want a pick-up and would rather not have a V-8 either.
A V-6, non-pick-up, can tow a 17', 19', or 21' and meet the weight requirements, depending on which V-6. You sound as though you are still very content with your 15' though. Your wonderful photos of places visited are proof that you get around with it plenty.
Cathy, you are probably right! We are completely paranoid about cleaning black tanks right (lol). And OMG when it came to winterizing we\I stressed out completely! Glad you enjoyed the pictures! Last month, we did a mini-trip to CA Central Coast (from Santa Cruz to Pismo Beach). Despite moments of feeling frazzled, we ARE getting around just fine and enjoying the trailer tremendously. I actually sit in the trailer sometimes because I miss it so much when we're not on the road. I'm like a young girl in love We celebrate our victories, which are quite a few. Overall, we're doing a bang up job getting accustomed to the trailer way of life.
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Old 03-25-2015, 11:03 PM   #136
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Originally Posted by Jen & Angie View Post
I probably sound really naive but I had imagined we'd barely feel the weight of a small, fiberglass trailer but boy it takes some getting used to.
Lots of people make comments such as "I can't tell the trailer is back there", which can lead new people to think that could actually be true. Imagine putting ten people in your van or SUV and expecting that there would be no noticeable change in acceleration or hill climbing - put that way it is obviously not a reasonable expectation, and putting the same weight of trailer on the back has even more effect (due to air drag).

Any travel trailer is not really so small - a "small trailer" to me is a little utility trailer or tiny tent trailer, which might weight one-quarter of what the smallest Escape weighs. Even the Escape 15' is about half the weight of a Lexus RX350; that's not a problem for the RX, but it's pretty significant.
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Old 03-26-2015, 08:32 AM   #137
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Originally Posted by Brian B-P View Post
Lots of people make comments such as "I can't tell the trailer is back there", which can lead new people to think that could actually be true...
I think that my brother had forgotten about the 23' camper trailer behind his truck one day when he tried to go through a MacDonald's drive through. He told me that he had a terrible time trying to back out of the narrow lineup lane.

On flat sections of highway when not travelling against any head winds I may "forget" for a few moments that my 19' is not right behind me. But any gust of wind, uphill section of road, or a glance at the gas gauge will certainly remind me that it is still there. I also get a lot of people passing me and giving me a big old as they drive past my fiberglass trailer.
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Old 03-26-2015, 09:06 AM   #138
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I remember last year while enroute to Osoyoos, towing BlackJack in Utah when a gust of wind hit me and before I knew it I was in the other lane. I was using the Andersen and both the tow and trailer went over together as if a giant hand pushed us both over simultaneously. Luckily there was no one in that lane at that time. I guess I used up one of my nine lives then.
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Old 03-26-2015, 10:46 PM   #139
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Originally Posted by Jen & Angie View Post
Cathy, you are probably right! We are completely paranoid about cleaning black tanks right (lol). And OMG when it came to winterizing we\I stressed out completely! Glad you enjoyed the pictures! Last month, we did a mini-trip to CA Central Coast (from Santa Cruz to Pismo Beach). Despite moments of feeling frazzled, we ARE getting around just fine and enjoying the trailer tremendously. I actually sit in the trailer sometimes because I miss it so much when we're not on the road. I'm like a young girl in love We celebrate our victories, which are quite a few. Overall, we're doing a bang up job getting accustomed to the trailer way of life.
Good to know we aren't the only ones sitting in trailer in driveway . We love the trailer ! Linda and Pat
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Old 05-27-2015, 01:11 PM   #140
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"...when a gust of wind hit me and before I knew it I was in the other lane. I was using the Andersen and both the tow and trailer went over together as if a giant hand pushed us both over simultaneously"

Exact thing happened to a friend in a passenger car not even towing.
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