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Old 11-10-2019, 05:34 PM   #141
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Originally Posted by John in Santa Cruz View Post
the Ford Towing Guide for 2002 says to use a WDH for any hitch pulled trailer over 6500 lbs. the max towable trailer is 12500 lbs...
Yes, pickups have been continually growing for many years, so for the same class they now have stronger frames, higher-capacity suspension, axles, and tires, and higher payload; it's interesting how much that has changed the weight-carrying hitch load rating. That's a good reminder that the specific vehicle's specifications must be considered.
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Old 11-11-2019, 06:15 PM   #142
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Originally Posted by Brian B-P View Post
Yes, pickups have been continually growing for many years, so for the same class they now have stronger frames, higher-capacity suspension, axles, and tires, and higher payload; it's interesting how much that has changed the weight-carrying hitch load rating. That's a good reminder that the specific vehicle's specifications must be considered.
well, I doubt the GVWR of the F250 has increased, at 8800 lbs, its under 9000 lbs because if it was over that you'd pay more in registration and insurance. So, the only way to increase the payload is to lighten the truck. certainly, my 2002 7.3L diesel is a massive lump of a motor, cast iron block *and* heads. 38 gallon fuel tank.

in 2002, the f250 and f350 had virtually the same frame, axles, wheels, brakes. the F350 had a extra leafs on the rear springs to increase the payload, and was stickered at a higher GVWR (9900 lbs with single wheels, 11200 lbs with dualies). interestingly, both 250 and 350 have the same GCWR of 20,000 lbs.
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Old 11-11-2019, 06:41 PM   #143
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well, I doubt the GVWR of the F250 has increased, at 8800 lbs, its under 9000 lbs because if it was over that you'd pay more in registration and insurance. So, the only way to increase the payload is to lighten the truck...

in 2002, the f250 and f350 had virtually the same frame, axles, wheels, brakes. the F350 had a extra leafs on the rear springs to increase the payload, and was stickered at a higher GVWR (9900 lbs with single wheels, 11200 lbs with dualies). interestingly, both 250 and 350 have the same GCWR of 20,000 lbs.
The minimum GVWR for a current F-250 is 9900 pounds... the same as that 2002 F-350 SRW and the same as the lowest GVWR for a current F-350. The relevant GVWR for regulations is usually 8500 pounds (the U.S. EPA's upper limit for a "Light-Duty Truck"), which is in the middle of Class 2 of the U.S. truck classification scale, so there are now classes 2A and 2B for under and over that value. Any Ford SuperDuty is over 8500 lb GVWR, and there should be no need to exceed that GVWR to tow a 23-foot travel trailer, although of course owners can use as heavy a truck as they want. If Escape ever offers a trailer which can't be reasonably towed by a light-duty truck, they should take the term "lightweight" off their website.

Increasing GVWR and decreasing curb weight are the two ways to higher payload, and it's hard to cut much if anything from the frame and chassis... thus lighter engines and the Ford advertisements pushing their aluminum cabs and boxes as a route to higher payload.

GCWR for a SuperDuty now depends on engine, SRW versus DRW, and final drive ratio, with the highest (F-350 only because it is DRW) being more than twice as high as for the lowest (gas engine SRW with tall ratio, regardless of whether it is F-250 or F-350). Again, none of this should matter to towing an Escape - almost any pickup truck reasonably equipped for towing has enough GCWR to handle three or four tons of trailer.
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Old 11-11-2019, 07:04 PM   #144
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My 2012 F250 XL 2WD with a 6.2L gas engine has a GVWR of 10,000 pounds. A cargo rating of 3400 pounds, a tow rating of 12400 pounds and a GCWR of 19000 pounds. This info is off my door sticker and Ford's website for a 2012 F250 Super Duty. https://ford-f250.com/manuals/2012_F...perDuty_J1.pdf
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Old 11-22-2019, 03:53 PM   #145
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Any news on the escape rally in Canada? Dates set yet?
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Old 11-22-2019, 05:49 PM   #146
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Any news on the escape rally in Canada? Dates set yet?
See here for discussion http://www.escapeforum.org/forums/f1...0-a-16023.html
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Old 12-02-2019, 12:30 PM   #147
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Where ever did you get this number? No way it will weigh anywhere near that much. The shell will be about 20 feet, which is shorter than that of the 5.0TA and the overall frame weight can't be much more than the 5.0TA either, and just add some weight for the extra width and finishing inside that with. I would bet it would top out at 5000 max.
As a comparison A very popular 23’ layout made by another very shiny trailer manufacture that is 8’ wide and with AC comes in at 9’75” high (foot taller than current Escape) pretty well fully loaded with cabinets, a walk around bed and a dry bath has a dry weight of 4800lbs and a GVWR 6000 lbs.

If Escape came up with a layout like this with ALL the storage it has I would be back towing a fiberglass trailer in a Nano second, even with the weight increase :-). Only thing with this layout that I would change is to make the table with two bench seats for seating 4 as the older model of this trailer had. The current model has a pull out table that is a little to big and does not increase the comfort level much at all, not even for just 2 people.
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Old 12-02-2019, 12:40 PM   #148
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Further, Escape measures their trailer lengths hitch to bumper, while most 'mainstream' builders measure the floor length. So a 23' escape is a 20' anyone-else, whihc is what Jim was saying.
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Old 12-02-2019, 01:55 PM   #149
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Further, Escape measures their trailer lengths hitch to bumper, while most 'mainstream' builders measure the floor length. So a 23' escape is a 20' anyone-else, whihc is what Jim was saying.
I wondered about the same thing, but the example is an Airstream (the smallest Flying Cloud), and it looks like they might still use overall (not body) length, too, as was common decades ago. It's hard to tell - their specs only show one length (not overall and interior or body lengths).
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Old 12-02-2019, 02:19 PM   #150
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I wondered about the same thing, but the example is an Airstream (the smallest Flying Cloud), and it looks like they might still use overall (not body) length, too, as was common decades ago. It's hard to tell - their specs only show one length (not overall and interior or body lengths).
assuming that drawing is to scale, using photometry (fancy word for measuring with my calibers and scaling)...

ok, on my screen, the '60" wide bed' measures 1.08" per my dial caliber, and the 'box' measures 4.9" overall, so I calculate that to be 22.7' which is close enough to 23'. Hitch to bumper is about 5.7" so 26' overall.

and, it measures 8.7' wide, not 7.33" wide like the larger escapes.
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Old 12-02-2019, 03:53 PM   #151
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Originally Posted by Brian B-P View Post
I wondered about the same thing, but the example is an Airstream (the smallest Flying Cloud), and it looks like they might still use overall (not body) length, too, as was common decades ago. It's hard to tell - their specs only show one length (not overall and interior or body lengths).
For the most part Airstream is still bumper to tongue although they on some models fudge it by 6”or more and sometimes less. I seem to think the current 23’ Flying Could is over 23’ and older years such as mine were under.

The Flying Could is not the smallest it is basically the trim level and the start of the dual axle models. They have Bambi,s in 16’, 19’, 20’ and 22’all single axle The 22’ Bambi is the same layout as the 23’ Flying Cloud but without the walk around bed and it’s 21’ 8” long. They also have the Carvel in 16, 19. 20 and 22’ lengths..

They do show on their website all the specs for interior and exterior . When looking at a particular trailer click the little down arrow towards top right.
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Old 12-02-2019, 04:00 PM   #152
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hmmm. the drawing posted in #174 says the bed is 60x75 while the specs say its 48x76

my eyeball caliber measurements assumed the bed was 60" wide.
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Old 12-02-2019, 04:02 PM   #153
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assuming that drawing is to scale, using photometry (fancy word for measuring with my calibers and scaling)...

ok, on my screen, the '60" wide bed' measures 1.08" per my dial caliber, and the 'box' measures 4.9" overall, so I calculate that to be 22.7' which is close enough to 23'. Hitch to bumper is about 5.7" so 26' overall.

and, it measures 8.7' wide, not 7.33" wide like the larger escapes.
The current 23’ Front Bed Flying Cloud is in fact 8’ wide exterior and 7’7” interior, Which is as you say wider than current Escape but in the video posted today it was said the new 23 would be 8’ wide.
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Old 12-02-2019, 04:12 PM   #154
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hmmm. the drawing posted in #174 says the bed is 60x75 while the specs say its 48x76

my eyeball caliber measurements assumed the bed was 60" wide.
Sorry John I mistakenly grabbed the 25’ Front Bed Floor plan you are correct the 23’ has the smaller bed. Both base layouts are the same. The 25’ is also wider which explains the wider width you calculated. But the 23’ bed on an 8’ wide 23’ is still a walk around all be it a bit snugger. Actually tried walking around one just last Monday, very doable.
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Old 12-02-2019, 04:14 PM   #155
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I'm confused, why are we discussing Airstream information?
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Old 12-02-2019, 04:19 PM   #156
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I'm confused, why are we discussing Airstream information?
I viewed it as talking about layouts for larger trailers and since there isn't any larger all-molded-towables (other than Oliver), need to talk about the 'rounded' metal cans.
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Old 12-02-2019, 04:29 PM   #157
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and Bigfoot....
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Old 12-02-2019, 04:33 PM   #158
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and Bigfoot....
Forgot about Bigfoot! Although I still swoon over a Bigfoot Silver Cloud!
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Old 12-02-2019, 04:43 PM   #159
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Another very popular floor plan was reintroduced this year in the smaller Airstream Caravel which is also 8’ wide and 20’ 8” long. It also has a front bed and rear dry bathroom and a great rear kitchen layout with lots of counter space. No walk around bed though.
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Old 12-02-2019, 04:49 PM   #160
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I'm confused, why are we discussing Airstream information?
As Escape is planning on introducing a new longer and wider trailer that some of us have been waiting for years for them to do.

It might be nice to throw up some floor plan ideas that work on a 23’ long and 8’ wide trailer they are proposing......trust me when I say not every one is a big fan of bathrooms beside beds and or of them being in the middle of the trailer or having to give up hanging clothes closet to get added pantry/kitchen storage. ;-)
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