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Old 10-13-2019, 07:25 AM   #101
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As the story goes, the chief photographer at the paper designed the new darkrooms all by himself. He drew straight lines, using a ruler and an HB pencil. The problem is, he didn't account for the width of the cinder block walls.
As I say at work, “Leave the engineering to the engineers”.
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Old 10-13-2019, 07:28 AM   #102
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Talking 21 layout

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For reference, it might be handy to have the floorplans with dimensions that Escape published before the recent website downgrade:
Internet Archive Wayback Machine - archive from 2019 May 28 of Escape Trailer website
Escape 21' - 21 Floorplan with Measurements
Escape 19' - 19 Floorplan with Measurements
fwiw anyone know the exact measurements of the 'space ' between the frig and the galley counter top .....and the distance from the front edge of the dinette table and the back edge of the permanent bed??....on the std 21' and the new, planned LE model as well. The 21s we visited sure seemed "walk-space" roomy, as compared to the tiny shimmy-space in our Casita Independence17', which, btw had only the sink cover OR 24"x6" counter space over the frig, , and that was taken if we opened the MW cabinet!
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Old 10-16-2019, 12:44 PM   #103
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rear living a requirement for me

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We love our rear dinette! It has the best views, we really don't want to look at the tow vehicle while we sip our morning coffee, etc. Also we really were tired of a bed that required crawing over or being crawled over so we immediately liked the 21. The crawl over bed is definately a deal breaker. Next is the bathroom, we love the big bathroom in our 21. Also, love the counter space. The 21LE seems like a big 19. One good thing I can see is if they offer a bunk option, it would be fantasitic for families.

Kathie
PS Can't wait to see the 23!
Totally agree. Our #1 requirement in an RV is rear window for daytime/bad weather enjoyment.

I'd be happy if they took out dinette and put recliner loveseat with drink holder attached. That would be an awesome option! Some place to sit comfortably inside. Maybe a small table that flips down to put your plate on while you sit in the loveseat to eat. Would definitely stand out in the marketplace where no one offers that option.

Also, I like the non-crawl over bed as in the 21. Walk around would be awesome, but I'm not sure I want to go longer in trailer length and weight to get it. If Escape could figure a walk around in smaller length it would be a winner. (Maybe by taking out the cooktop? We always cook outside. and putting extra storage on walls beside the walk around bed)

Nice rear and rear side windows with LR or DR area, wet bath, nice kitchen sink with microwave, walk around bed.... how short can you make it? That would be my #1 RV. Please build it!

Our desire of this next RV is to be small enough to scoot around, with quality construction and light weight. It's retirement time, if kids/grandkids come... we'll get them a tent!
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Old 10-16-2019, 01:08 PM   #104
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... if kids/grandkids come... we'll get them a tent!

That made me laugh! Happened to me as a kid and it went well.
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Old 10-16-2019, 01:49 PM   #105
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. Maybe a small table that flips down to put your plate on while you sit in the loveseat to eat. Would definitely stand out in the marketplace where no one offers that option.

That it would, especially when you went to sell it. The market is customer driven and not everyone would give up on a table or the ability to seat more than a couple. Some do, but most don't

(Maybe by taking out the cooktop? We always cook outside

That would be another thing that would really stand out. Not too many folks would give up their ability to cook inside.
It's nice to dream but reality has to be part of any serious considerations for radical changes.

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Old 10-16-2019, 02:19 PM   #106
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As the story goes, the chief photographer at the paper designed the new darkrooms all by himself. He drew straight lines, using a ruler and an HB pencil. The problem is, he didn't account for the width of the cinder block walls.
When our high school journalism lab was renovated back in the 1980s, the architect would not accept any input from us lowly users on the design of the photo darkroom.

Among the creative touches in his design were a window with clear glass, and six 150 watt light bulbs which had been dipped in red paint. But his pièce de résistance was to install all the light switches outside the door.
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Old 10-16-2019, 02:43 PM   #107
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Thumbs down Leave engineering to ..whom??

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When our high school journalism lab was renovated back in the 1980s, the architect would not accept any input from us lowly users on the design of the photo darkroom.

Among the creative touches in his design were a window with clear glass, and six 150 watt light bulbs which had been dipped in red paint. But his pièce de résistance was to install all the light switches outside the door.
That reminds me ..yrs ago I was asked by my group to be the Director of Anesthesia for a new Surgery Ctr. I had several meetings w the designers, inputting my suggestions, based upon 20+ years of experience, as to the layouts of several Operating Rooms, ease of access to plumbing,, placement of OR tables, placement of overhead O2/N2O gas lines, wall outlets etc etc. Needless to say I was surprised [after being off for a week of vacation] to come back and find none of the suggestions were followed. What resulted were several ORs being horrible and hardly useful for some types of surgery due to machinery & gas lines being sited in or across the doorways etc. ..no telling what it cost the owners overall but it sure was frustrating.
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Old 10-16-2019, 03:36 PM   #108
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It's nice to dream but reality has to be part of any serious considerations for radical changes.

Ron

Variety is the spice of life.

I think that is the beauty of the Escape brand compared to sooooo many. And if you want something to drive additional sales, think outside the box. For me, the 2 extra feet in the center, isn't worth the trouble.

Seating comfort has exploded in the fireside market... and big rigs... and RV's everywhere. Why not add that to the option for the fiberglass RVs market? Escape could easily do it!

Cook tops could always be an option. But I think there are plenty of people not eating dinner at a dining room table at home and based on the used RV's I've seen, many are like me and don't use the ovens or cooktops.

Everyone has a style. Will I give up counterspace including a cooktop for a walk around bed... 1000% yes! and the same for inside seating that is recliner-ish.


Will I buy a longer RV for it? Probably not. I'm in the market for a smaller camper. I know there are plenty that will go as large as possible... but see a lot of love for these small rvs. Easy. Less $$$ now and literally down the road.

Really hope that if Escape goes to the trouble of adding 2 feet it will be for something exciting and new!
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Old 10-16-2019, 05:30 PM   #109
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Variety is the spice of life.
And I'd add "that unless it's commercially viable it's not going to happen." That's where "make it your own" starts.

Ron
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Old 10-16-2019, 07:48 PM   #110
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And I'd add "that unless it's commercially viable it's not going to happen." That's where "make it your own" starts.

Ron
Yes. Agree. That goes without saying...

I'm saying people will love it! Just look around... think about your own life. How long do you sit at your dining room table? Even with it probably being more comfy than an RV booth. VS how long do you sit in your recliner?
Besides there is an almost equally as comfortable dining room table outside... called a picnic table. Not many recliners outside is there tho

You can still have a fold up, pull up table to the recliners if you choose. Lots of options.

Maybe you don't like the thought. Doesn't mean everyone thinks the same. Exploring ideas.

Just did a google search:
"According to a recent survey of more than 1,000 American adults, the table is becoming a less and less popular surface to eat on. Nearly three-quarters of those surveyed said they grew up typically eating dinner at a kitchen table, but a little less than half said they do so now when eating at home.
Where are they dining instead? The couch and the bedroom are both far more popular now than in the respondents’ youth. Thirty percent of the survey takers cited the couch as their primary at-home eating location, and 17 percent took meals in the bedroom. To put it another way, the number of respondents who most often eat at a kitchen table nowadays is roughly the same as the number who eat either on the couch or in their bedroom."
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Old 10-16-2019, 08:00 PM   #111
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TV trays! Our dinette is more comfortable than a picnic table in shoulder seasons in which we mostly camp. It's great to dine outside, just not when the food is cold instantly or the wind is blowing 25 mph.
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Old 10-16-2019, 10:09 PM   #112
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Y
I'm saying people will love it! Just look around... think about your own life. How long do you sit at your dining room table?
Too long, eat way to much at dining room table occasions.

Even with it probably being more comfy than an RV booth. VS how long do you sit in your recliner?
Besides there is an almost equally as comfortable dining room table outside... called a picnic table. Not many recliners outside is there tho

Yup, it's called a zero gravity chair.

You can still have a fold up, pull up table to the recliners if you choose. Lots of options.

Maybe you don't like the thought. Doesn't mean everyone thinks the same. Exploring ideas.
Tables have other uses aside from the obvious. Try living a fair amount of time in a trailer without a table. They also are good for social occasions where several people can sit around them. A loveseat for 2 kind of gives up a lot. People can have any ideas they want but the reality is people vote with their wallets. A trailer without a table and only space for two to sit down probably isn't commercially viable. But, hey, dinettes are only held together with a few screws. Go ahead, order without a table, rip out the bench seats and enjoy.

Ron
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Old 10-16-2019, 10:27 PM   #113
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Go ahead, order without a table, rip out the bench seats and enjoy.

Ron
Throw all the stuff under those 'bench seats' outside or under the bed... they gotta go somewhere...
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Old 10-16-2019, 10:56 PM   #114
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A loveseat for 2 kind of gives up a lot. People can have any ideas they want but the reality is people vote with their wallets. A trailer without a table and only space for two to sit down probably isn't commercially viable .

Ron
Hey Ron,
I think you are missing several points... as there would be other things serving as a table... just not a dinette booth... but I'm going to give up because I realize now to some people probably a table is the most important item in their RV... well, at least to one person I know.

Just one last question, since we've been "talking" about 8 hours. Where you been sitting while on the computer?

Enjoy your booth... I'll ask for a recliner!



Have a good evening!
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Old 10-16-2019, 11:36 PM   #115
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Where you been sitting while on the computer?
On an office chair at my desk.

Ron
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Old 10-17-2019, 12:00 AM   #116
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Enjoy your booth... I'll ask for a recliner!

Your recliner won't offer much structural support.
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Old 10-17-2019, 07:29 AM   #117
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I can see the leather reclining chairs as a viable option when coupled with a gas fireplace and a media center with a 54” flat screen TV . Our friends have something similar in their 36 ft 5th wheel and it does add a homey touch . It would probably take some innovative / creative engineering. Since tables are flat and the TV is flat maybe it could serve a dual purpose
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Old 10-17-2019, 07:32 AM   #118
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I can see the leather reclining chairs as a viable option when coupled with a gas fireplace and a media center with a 54” flat screen TV . Our friends have something similar in their 36 ft 5th wheel and it does add a homey touch . It would probably take some innovative / creative engineering. Since tables are flat and the TV is flat maybe it could serve a dual purpose
and a 3/4 ton diesel to pull it at 8 mpg....
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Old 10-17-2019, 08:13 AM   #119
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TVs

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I can see the leather reclining chairs as a viable option when coupled with a gas fireplace and a media center with a 54” flat screen TV . Our friends have something similar in their 36 ft 5th wheel and it does add a homey touch . It would probably take some innovative / creative engineering. Since tables are flat and the TV is flat maybe it could serve a dual purpose
LOL we camp to get away FROM the dang TV..wh we watch very little of anyways, especially the horrible fare on network tv today! That said.. IMHO investigate the new "film layer" flexible, folding TVs they are working on..they apparently can be glued to almost any surface..say a bathroom door or a cabinet door, making a stand alone TV nearly obsolete.
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Old 10-17-2019, 08:53 AM   #120
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Full post here: https://escapetrailer.com/escape-21-le-floorplan/

Full features list will be available by November 1st 2019.
This floor plan is growing on me.
I wonder if an option for a thin pantry beside the dinette could be added. I was thinking on the bathroom side with an internal width to hold a couple of cans. This would make the dinette a bit smaller on that side but add great functionality.
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