Karl Says Goodbye

[oldwave]

I thought he was a good salesman and expanded the customer options. However the flaw that sticks out was the handling of the exploding cooktops . That was not good business and I’m surprised ETI was not sued.

[diannelgraham]

I also think the exploding stoves where handled so poorly people got hurt needlessly and yes someone should have gotten sued. I worked for public held Fortune 500 companies my whole working career. Corporate lawyers dictate every move that is made in a situation like this not management. What ever ETI did or said was dictated by KV lawyers. Also most top management in a public held company usually signs some sort of NDA when hired no telling what might be in it. I have never blamed anyone at ETI for the handling of this I've always blamed KV and their heartless business practice. And yes I hope someone sues them.

[MarkinVan]

It always surprises me how Suburban gets a free ride and Escape gets all the blame.

Pretty sure ETI's lawyers would not have let them make a public statement until responsibilities and solutions were in place.

Escape did a lot in the background for a solid solution for all on something that is another manufacture's product.

Surprised that Suburban was not sued for trying to blaming Escape and failing to act sooner.

Very happy with the solution Escape provided as an owner on a product they don't warranty and they gave us a complete resolution.

I did write Escape at the time about our fears of having an S2D2 and they quickly replied instructing us to immediately take it to an Authorized Suburban Dealer for any concerns.

They could have easily just send out a letter to owners telling them there might be a problem and to contact Suburban for a solution.

Then I'd be in the on the "not good business" blame game.

[rbryan4]

Originally Posted by Jim Bennett

I know, I know, I'm a guy who looks for the good in things rather than dwelling on the bad (though it does need to be dealt with).

Well, that's one of the things I always liked about you Jim.

[Doug2000]

Karl was only good for KV. Since he took over, the price went up 50% to the point I would never buy another. Quality went down and what happened to the boat

A move to the states I feel is bad for the company.

[rbryan4]

Originally Posted by Doug2000

Karl was only good for KV. Since he took over, the price went up 50% to the point I would never buy another. Quality went down and what happened to the boat



A move to the states I feel is bad for the company.

I tend to agree. Our 2015 Escape was priced a bit higher than the alternatives at the time, but we still came in at $28.5K for a loaded and customized 19 - and the quality made that an even greater value. With the cost of the new models, as well as the separate price for Americans, things have definitely changed. It's still a good trailer, but the value proposition has changed completely.

[Eggscape]

Originally Posted by Doug2000

Karl was only good for KV. Since he took over, the price went up 50% to the point I would never buy another. Quality went down and what happened to the boat

A move to the states I feel is bad for the company.

The boat disappeared when KV closed down Campion Boats here in Kelowna BC.

[MarkinVan]

Well, a 2023 Airstream 19' single axle now starts at $74,000 US.
Makes the $39,170 US E19 look like a bargain.
It just ain't 2015 anymore.
If only I had bought more real estate.
I know the Bank of Canada is working hard to slow things down.

[h2owmn]

"What ever ETI did or said was dictated by KV lawyers. " This is very likely true. However,

"I was just following orders" has never been an adequate moral explanation.

I am very grateful that no one died, and I am in sympathy with whoever was injured.

[Glens]

I’m sure Karl made a lot of money for the investment firm that owned ETI and he was probably well compensated for it. He made these units much more customizable, added more options and guided the organization through Covid, no small task. I agree the ETI is close to pricing themselves out of the market. Quality and attention to detail has definitely deteriorated based on experiences mentioned here and what others say.

I picked my 19 up in March of 2020 and it was finished in Nov of 2019. Not having a process to thoroughly check these units is a poor management policy. Our heater did not work (bad circuit board) and other than that several things were left out ( TV stand, umbra hooks). Of course this was during initial part of the Covid outbreak.

I expect that demand has slowed considerably and bringing the 23 to market will help equalize that out. Karl did a stellar job of growing the business and making money. He probably more than doubled the options available with many being standard equipment choices ( flooring and fabric). I wish him further success wherever he lands. He was good for ETI but growth alway has consequences.

[rubicon327]

Originally Posted by rbryan4

I tend to agree. Our 2015 Escape was priced a bit higher than the alternatives at the time, but we still came in at $28.5K for a loaded and customized 19 - and the quality made that an even greater value. With the cost of the new models, as well as the separate price for Americans, things have definitely changed. It's still a good trailer, but the value proposition has changed completely.

Stinks for current buyers but puts you in a good spot as a current owner. I'm sure you can sell your 2015 for as much or more than you paid. Unheard of for an RV/travel trailer that typically depreciate rapidly.

[Selkirk]

Originally Posted by MarkinVan

Well, a 2023 Airstream 19' single axle now starts at $74,000 US.
Makes the $39,170 US E19 look like a bargain.
It just ain't 2015 anymore.
If only I had bought more real estate.
I know the Bank of Canada is working hard to slow things down.

I agree. For better or worse, the RV industry is in a completely different state in terms of value per $$$ than it was 5-10 years ago. I don't think it's fair to blame ETI or its leadership.

The price increases that occurred over the 18 months while I was on the waiting list really stung. It certainly caused me to second-guess my decision. I ended paying close to $15K more for my E19 than I initially budgeted.

However, after doing a reality check this past spring on current real-world pricing of comparable small trailers in the premium market segment, I found that ETI's pricing remained competitive for what you get.

I do admit that there are issues present resulting from ETI's growth, These issues are far less tolerable at the current price point. This definitely needs to be dealt with by the next generation of ETI leadership.

[Perry Butler]

Originally Posted by Doug2000

Karl was only good for KV. Since he took over, the price went up 50% to the point I would never buy another.

Ahhhhhhh, Karl had nothing to do with the price increase. Covid, parts shortages, inflation were the issue, not Karl.

Perry

[Rossue]

Originally Posted by Perry Butler

Ahhhhhhh, Karl had nothing to do with the price incr
ease. Covid, parts shortages, inflation were the issue, not Karl.

Perry

That's right - pricing is probably the most complex aspect in marketing. Thankfully for KV all they needed was to channel the spirit of Gordon Gecko.

[joebuoy]

I find it a little interesting that Karl's video is on the Escape Trailer YouTube channel but not on the Escape Trailer web page video section (at least I can't find the video).

[oldwave]

The vulture capital market is what really drove the excessive price increases. The Covid excuse has been used to gouge consumers throughout the market. I suspect kv made a bunch of money and will likely close down a lot of the production and shrink the staff. It’s inevitable in a boom and bust industry.

[jack sparrow]

It is on the Escape web page, but you have to dig for it.
I found it in the section "News & Updates" scroll al the way to the bottom of all the videos and click on the last video in the bottom right corner. The video is called "Escape Tour in Manadrin" at the end of this video it list other videos to watch and Karl's video is listed there. That's where I saw it and watched from there.
Cheers

Will miss Karl greatly...... I felt he was a good guy and I'm really taken back that he is no longer there........


Makes your mind swim.....

[Civilguy]

I only saw Karl on the videos, but he has well-developed interpersonal skills. He's no doubt on to the next thing, whatever that is.

My suggestions
1. Go back to respecting the Exchange rate,
2. Do repairs and aftermarket installs,
3. List old parts available through them that are in inventory
4. Set up at least three or four US distributors. To offer prebuilt trailers and “share” delivery costs
5, Respond positively to questions on this forum to cut down speculation and misinformation.

Very nice. And may I add:

6. Finish the 23.

Personally, it's been painful to watch the "progress" on the 23. I recently watched the March 2023 video with the first prototype and Karl speaking to the changes which were planned for the next iteration.

The linear kitchen is a big improvement over the initial renderings, and so was eliminating the two-room bath with the intervening wasted hallway space. On the other hand, a great deal of pantry and wardrobe space seems to have been lost. That walkaround bed comes at quite the cost in terms of space as the surrounding area is basically "hallway" serving no other purpose. But, for those who don't care for the crawl-in or crawl-over, maybe it's all worth it.

I remember when Reace came on the forum and asked a few questions concerning his ideas for the pending 21 design. Following that, he went and built it. There wasn't any drama about it (until he had to change the heater location; then it was some pretty anxious times around here, !).

Meanwhile, it's vaya con dios, Karl.

[Jim Bennett]

Originally Posted by Civilguy

I only saw Karl on the videos, but he has some well-developed interpersonal skills.

The linear kitchen is a big improvement over the initial renderings, and so was eliminating the two-room bath with the intervening wasted hallway space. On the other hand, a great deal of pantry and wardrobe space seems to have been lost. That walkaround bed comes at quite the cost in terms of space as the surrounding area is basically "hallway" serving no other purpose. But, for those who don't care for the crawl-in or crawl-over, maybe it's all worth it.

I remember when Reace came on the forum and asked a few questions concerning his ideas for the pending 21 design.

Having met Karl a few times I can very much agree with that first statement of yours.

As well, the galley and wet bath were a HUGE improvement in my opinion. I would be wanting the twin beds myself due to affording more storage and ease of use. I had told Karl this when I fist met him and the 23 drawings were just conceptual.

And Reace did listen good to the customer. I really did not know him well when the 19 was a concept and after telling him I really did not like the layout he came up with, with the bath on the passenger side, done so to give roof support. Using my skills as a kitchen designer I told him all the big and bulky stuff needs to be on the same side. He came up with the right side gable on the galley for roof support and later the stripper pole. He offered this as Plan B and everyone but one person said they wanted it. He ditched his first plan and went with what Tammy called the Plan Bennett.

[oldwave]

The delay of the 23 was frustrating and costEscape another order from us. 3years of promises and still no production. I’m beginning to think the product will never be offered for sale.