Karl Says Goodbye - Page 4 - Escape Trailer Owners Community
Journey with Confidence RV GPS App RV Trip Planner RV LIFE Campground Reviews RV Maintenance Take a Speed Test Free 7 Day Trial ×

Go Back   Escape Trailer Owners Community > Escape Community > Escape News
Click Here to Login
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 06-20-2023, 11:46 AM   #61
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Kent, Ohio
Trailer: 2017 21c Sold, 2023 Bigfoot 25RQ
Posts: 1,391
I thought he was a good salesman and expanded the customer options. However the flaw that sticks out was the handling of the exploding cooktops . That was not good business and I’m surprised ETI was not sued.
oldwave is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-20-2023, 01:51 PM   #62
Senior Member
 
diannelgraham's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Snohomish, Washington
Trailer: 2017 19 foot sold, 2022 21C
Posts: 652
I also think the exploding stoves where handled so poorly people got hurt needlessly and yes someone should have gotten sued. I worked for public held Fortune 500 companies my whole working career. Corporate lawyers dictate every move that is made in a situation like this not management. What ever ETI did or said was dictated by KV lawyers. Also most top management in a public held company usually signs some sort of NDA when hired no telling what might be in it. I have never blamed anyone at ETI for the handling of this I've always blamed KV and their heartless business practice. And yes I hope someone sues them.
diannelgraham is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-20-2023, 01:55 PM   #63
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2018
Location: Bowen Island, BC, British Columbia
Trailer: 2021 Escape E19
Posts: 160
It always surprises me how Suburban gets a free ride and Escape gets all the blame.

Pretty sure ETI's lawyers would not have let them make a public statement until responsibilities and solutions were in place.

Escape did a lot in the background for a solid solution for all on something that is another manufacture's product.

Surprised that Suburban was not sued for trying to blaming Escape and failing to act sooner.

Very happy with the solution Escape provided as an owner on a product they don't warranty and they gave us a complete resolution.

I did write Escape at the time about our fears of having an S2D2 and they quickly replied instructing us to immediately take it to an Authorized Suburban Dealer for any concerns.

They could have easily just send out a letter to owners telling them there might be a problem and to contact Suburban for a solution.

Then I'd be in the on the "not good business" blame game.
MarkinVan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-20-2023, 10:08 PM   #64
Site Team
 
rbryan4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Canyon Lake, Texas
Trailer: 2015 19 "Past Tents", 2021 F150 Lariat 2.7L EB
Posts: 10,222
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Bennett View Post
I know, I know, I'm a guy who looks for the good in things rather than dwelling on the bad (though it does need to be dealt with).
Well, that's one of the things I always liked about you Jim.
__________________
"You can't buy happiness, but you can buy an RV. And that is pretty close."
rbryan4 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-21-2023, 05:18 AM   #65
Senior Member
 
Doug2000's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: London, Ontario
Trailer: 2020 Escape 19
Posts: 1,120
Karl was only good for KV. Since he took over, the price went up 50% to the point I would never buy another. Quality went down and what happened to the boat

A move to the states I feel is bad for the company.
__________________
Had 2 Escapes, 17b, 19, went back to a pop up that fit in the garage. 2018 Coachman Clipper RBST HW AFrame
Doug2000 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-21-2023, 10:19 AM   #66
Site Team
 
rbryan4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Canyon Lake, Texas
Trailer: 2015 19 "Past Tents", 2021 F150 Lariat 2.7L EB
Posts: 10,222
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug2000 View Post
Karl was only good for KV. Since he took over, the price went up 50% to the point I would never buy another. Quality went down and what happened to the boat



A move to the states I feel is bad for the company.
I tend to agree. Our 2015 Escape was priced a bit higher than the alternatives at the time, but we still came in at $28.5K for a loaded and customized 19 - and the quality made that an even greater value. With the cost of the new models, as well as the separate price for Americans, things have definitely changed. It's still a good trailer, but the value proposition has changed completely.
__________________
"You can't buy happiness, but you can buy an RV. And that is pretty close."
rbryan4 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-21-2023, 10:30 AM   #67
Senior Member
 
Eggscape's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Kelowna, British Columbia
Trailer: 2018 Escape 19
Posts: 2,718
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug2000 View Post
Karl was only good for KV. Since he took over, the price went up 50% to the point I would never buy another. Quality went down and what happened to the boat

A move to the states I feel is bad for the company.
The boat disappeared when KV closed down Campion Boats here in Kelowna BC.
__________________
So many modifications...so little time.

https://www.escapeforum.org/forums/f8...ape-12918.html
Eggscape is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-21-2023, 10:43 AM   #68
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2018
Location: Bowen Island, BC, British Columbia
Trailer: 2021 Escape E19
Posts: 160
Well, a 2023 Airstream 19' single axle now starts at $74,000 US.
Makes the $39,170 US E19 look like a bargain.
It just ain't 2015 anymore.
If only I had bought more real estate.
I know the Bank of Canada is working hard to slow things down.
MarkinVan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-21-2023, 10:44 AM   #69
Senior Member
 
h2owmn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Placerville, California
Trailer: 2018 Escape 17A double dinette
Posts: 1,520
"What ever ETI did or said was dictated by KV lawyers. " This is very likely true. However,

"I was just following orders" has never been an adequate moral explanation.

I am very grateful that no one died, and I am in sympathy with whoever was injured.
__________________
--Time and trouble will tame an advanced young woman, but an advanced older woman is uncontrollable by any earthly force. --Dorothy Sayers
h2owmn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-21-2023, 10:47 AM   #70
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: Houston, Texas
Trailer: 2019 Escape 19
Posts: 51
I’m sure Karl made a lot of money for the investment firm that owned ETI and he was probably well compensated for it. He made these units much more customizable, added more options and guided the organization through Covid, no small task. I agree the ETI is close to pricing themselves out of the market. Quality and attention to detail has definitely deteriorated based on experiences mentioned here and what others say.

I picked my 19 up in March of 2020 and it was finished in Nov of 2019. Not having a process to thoroughly check these units is a poor management policy. Our heater did not work (bad circuit board) and other than that several things were left out ( TV stand, umbra hooks). Of course this was during initial part of the Covid outbreak.

I expect that demand has slowed considerably and bringing the 23 to market will help equalize that out. Karl did a stellar job of growing the business and making money. He probably more than doubled the options available with many being standard equipment choices ( flooring and fabric). I wish him further success wherever he lands. He was good for ETI but growth alway has consequences.
Glens is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-21-2023, 12:06 PM   #71
Senior Member
 
rubicon327's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Burlington Twp., New Jersey
Trailer: 2010 Escape 19
Posts: 7,146
Quote:
Originally Posted by rbryan4 View Post
I tend to agree. Our 2015 Escape was priced a bit higher than the alternatives at the time, but we still came in at $28.5K for a loaded and customized 19 - and the quality made that an even greater value. With the cost of the new models, as well as the separate price for Americans, things have definitely changed. It's still a good trailer, but the value proposition has changed completely.
Stinks for current buyers but puts you in a good spot as a current owner. I'm sure you can sell your 2015 for as much or more than you paid. Unheard of for an RV/travel trailer that typically depreciate rapidly.
__________________
Mods to Rubicon: https://www.escapeforum.org/forums/f...tml#post249508
“One way to get the most out of life is to look upon it as an adventure.”― W.F.
rubicon327 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-21-2023, 12:21 PM   #72
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2021
Location: Calgary, Alberta
Trailer: 2023 E19
Posts: 299
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkinVan View Post
Well, a 2023 Airstream 19' single axle now starts at $74,000 US.
Makes the $39,170 US E19 look like a bargain.
It just ain't 2015 anymore.
If only I had bought more real estate.
I know the Bank of Canada is working hard to slow things down.
I agree. For better or worse, the RV industry is in a completely different state in terms of value per $$$ than it was 5-10 years ago. I don't think it's fair to blame ETI or its leadership.

The price increases that occurred over the 18 months while I was on the waiting list really stung. It certainly caused me to second-guess my decision. I ended paying close to $15K more for my E19 than I initially budgeted.

However, after doing a reality check this past spring on current real-world pricing of comparable small trailers in the premium market segment, I found that ETI's pricing remained competitive for what you get.

I do admit that there are issues present resulting from ETI's growth, These issues are far less tolerable at the current price point. This definitely needs to be dealt with by the next generation of ETI leadership.
Selkirk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-21-2023, 01:56 PM   #73
Senior Member
 
Perry Butler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Lanesboro, MN, between Whalan and Fountain, Minnesota
Trailer: 2016 Bigfoot 25RQ - (2018 Escape 5.0 sold)
Posts: 2,174
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug2000 View Post
Karl was only good for KV. Since he took over, the price went up 50% to the point I would never buy another.
Ahhhhhhh, Karl had nothing to do with the price increase. Covid, parts shortages, inflation were the issue, not Karl.

Perry
Perry Butler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-21-2023, 04:34 PM   #74
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: SLO County, California
Trailer: 2014 Escape 21C 2019 Expedition
Posts: 5,213
Quote:
Originally Posted by Perry Butler View Post
Ahhhhhhh, Karl had nothing to do with the price incr
ease. Covid, parts shortages, inflation were the issue, not Karl.

Perry

That's right - pricing is probably the most complex aspect in marketing. Thankfully for KV all they needed was to channel the spirit of Gordon Gecko.
__________________
"We gotta get as far away as we can!"
- Russell Casse, Independence Day
Rossue is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-21-2023, 06:35 PM   #75
Junior Member
 
joebuoy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Kent, Washington
Trailer: 2023 E19
Posts: 22
I find it a little interesting that Karl's video is on the Escape Trailer YouTube channel but not on the Escape Trailer web page video section (at least I can't find the video).
joebuoy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-21-2023, 07:12 PM   #76
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Kent, Ohio
Trailer: 2017 21c Sold, 2023 Bigfoot 25RQ
Posts: 1,391
The vulture capital market is what really drove the excessive price increases. The Covid excuse has been used to gouge consumers throughout the market. I suspect kv made a bunch of money and will likely close down a lot of the production and shrink the staff. It’s inevitable in a boom and bust industry.
oldwave is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-21-2023, 10:56 PM   #77
Senior Member
 
jack sparrow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2023
Location: Near New Orleans, Louisiana
Trailer: 2023 Escape 21NE "Escape to Margaritaville"
Posts: 151
It is on the Escape web page, but you have to dig for it.
I found it in the section "News & Updates" scroll al the way to the bottom of all the videos and click on the last video in the bottom right corner. The video is called "Escape Tour in Manadrin" at the end of this video it list other videos to watch and Karl's video is listed there. That's where I saw it and watched from there.
Cheers

Will miss Karl greatly...... I felt he was a good guy and I'm really taken back that he is no longer there........


Makes your mind swim.....
jack sparrow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-22-2023, 05:36 PM   #78
Senior Member
 
Civilguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Mike in Puget Sound, Washington
Trailer: Escape 21 & Jeep GC 5.7 (Previous 2012 Casita FD17 & 2010 Audi Q5)
Posts: 236
I only saw Karl on the videos, but he has well-developed interpersonal skills. He's no doubt on to the next thing, whatever that is.

Quote:
My suggestions
1. Go back to respecting the Exchange rate,
2. Do repairs and aftermarket installs,
3. List old parts available through them that are in inventory
4. Set up at least three or four US distributors. To offer prebuilt trailers and “share” delivery costs
5, Respond positively to questions on this forum to cut down speculation and misinformation.
Very nice. And may I add:

6. Finish the 23.

Personally, it's been painful to watch the "progress" on the 23. I recently watched the March 2023 video with the first prototype and Karl speaking to the changes which were planned for the next iteration.

The linear kitchen is a big improvement over the initial renderings, and so was eliminating the two-room bath with the intervening wasted hallway space. On the other hand, a great deal of pantry and wardrobe space seems to have been lost. That walkaround bed comes at quite the cost in terms of space as the surrounding area is basically "hallway" serving no other purpose. But, for those who don't care for the crawl-in or crawl-over, maybe it's all worth it.

I remember when Reace came on the forum and asked a few questions concerning his ideas for the pending 21 design. Following that, he went and built it. There wasn't any drama about it (until he had to change the heater location; then it was some pretty anxious times around here, !).

Meanwhile, it's vaya con dios, Karl.
__________________
“You must learn from other people’s mistakes. You can’t possibly live long enough to make them all yourself.” - Sam Levenson
Civilguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-22-2023, 05:57 PM   #79
Senior Member
 
Jim Bennett's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Calgary, Alberta
Trailer: 2017 Escape 5.0 TA
Posts: 15,545
Quote:
Originally Posted by Civilguy View Post
I only saw Karl on the videos, but he has some well-developed interpersonal skills.

The linear kitchen is a big improvement over the initial renderings, and so was eliminating the two-room bath with the intervening wasted hallway space. On the other hand, a great deal of pantry and wardrobe space seems to have been lost. That walkaround bed comes at quite the cost in terms of space as the surrounding area is basically "hallway" serving no other purpose. But, for those who don't care for the crawl-in or crawl-over, maybe it's all worth it.

I remember when Reace came on the forum and asked a few questions concerning his ideas for the pending 21 design.
Having met Karl a few times I can very much agree with that first statement of yours.

As well, the galley and wet bath were a HUGE improvement in my opinion. I would be wanting the twin beds myself due to affording more storage and ease of use. I had told Karl this when I fist met him and the 23 drawings were just conceptual.

And Reace did listen good to the customer. I really did not know him well when the 19 was a concept and after telling him I really did not like the layout he came up with, with the bath on the passenger side, done so to give roof support. Using my skills as a kitchen designer I told him all the big and bulky stuff needs to be on the same side. He came up with the right side gable on the galley for roof support and later the stripper pole. He offered this as Plan B and everyone but one person said they wanted it. He ditched his first plan and went with what Tammy called the Plan Bennett.
__________________
2017 Escape 5.0 TA
2015 Ford F150 Lariat 3.5L EcoBoost
2009 Escape 19 (previous)
“Most folks are about as happy as they make up their minds to be.” — Abraham Lincoln
Jim Bennett is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-22-2023, 09:37 PM   #80
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Kent, Ohio
Trailer: 2017 21c Sold, 2023 Bigfoot 25RQ
Posts: 1,391
The delay of the 23 was frustrating and costEscape another order from us. 3years of promises and still no production. I’m beginning to think the product will never be offered for sale.
oldwave is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off




» Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by

Disclaimer:

This website is not affiliated with or endorsed by Escape Trailer Industries or any of its affiliates. This is an independent, unofficial site.


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:43 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright 2023 Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.