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Old 12-04-2019, 09:00 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hollybee View Post
Then a roof AC with a 3rd "fan speed" choice..like as in LOW speed/quiet mode.... for sleeping. Most roof ACs I have heard, [and like the one in our former Casita] sound like a 737 in take-off power. Cool they do, but these reasonably-well insulated fiberglass TTs are easy to cool!
Hollybee: With all due respect those that think the overhead A/C units are not loud may have some diminished hearing. Maybe the placement in a 21 with bed up front helps a little bit too but they are still undeniably loud when seated at the dinette. One of the biggest complaints I see in small fiberglass trailers is the A/C noise. The standard Dometic and Coleman units are oversized and comprised of antiquated technology.

It goes way beyond just another speed on the fan. I have posted this in my custom A/C thread:

“Imagine for a moment if a trailer manufacturer like Escape took the time to engineer and implement a sleek, split system that
-provides cooling, dehumidifying, heating and fan modes
-is whisper quiet inside and outside
-has inverter compressor technology that reduces amp draw and improves dehumidification versus an oversized constant speed compressor
-provides cooling to 115F, heating down to 15F
-lowers overall trailer height
-creates less aerodynamic drag
-provides for a nicer overall exterior look/profile (especially on smaller trailers)
-has less weight (and possibly the ability to position condenser underneath or where the weight might be desired to positively affect tongue weight)
-provides more room on roof for solar
-no roof opening or opening used for passive ventilation/light or add'l fan
-creates more headroom inside trailer
-auto restart and compressor protection time delay (set EMS on 15 sec delay instead of 2:16 just to protect your A/C)
-no condensate dripping down side of trailer
-easily run on 2KW generator (with no hard start capacitors or SmartStart system to worry about)
-with economy mode (580W) possible to run off inverter tied to lithium battery bank and solar?

Those that want/need A/C deserve better! What's not to love?”


I am realizing ALL of these benefits except the last one with my 9,000 BTUH Fujitsu heat pump. Running off of lithium batteries and solar is still prohibitively expensive but costs are coming down.
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Old 12-04-2019, 09:13 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hollybee View Post
Well..sorry, but the Roof AC unit in our Casita Indy was freakinh LOUD..even on low..both of us wished it had been set up w a 3 speed fan..so, after cooling things off, [which takes little time in a 17' Casita], we really wished for a lower speed fan for nighttime use. Sometimes we even turned the darn thing off and used a fan even in FL at night. To each his own.
We had a 2013 17 ft Casita Spirit Deluxe versus your Casita Indy which may account for the perceived noise difference .
The A/C in our Casita was adequate for Summer time temps in the upper Midwest ( Minnesota , Wisconsin, Michigan ) but was on the border of inadequate when we visited Tennessee, Georgia , Alabama and Florida
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Old 12-04-2019, 09:22 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steve dunham View Post
We had a 2013 17 ft Spirit Deluxe versus your Casita Indy which may account for the perceived noise difference .
The A/C in our Casita was adequate for Summer time temps in the upper Midwest ( Minnesota , Wisconsin, Michigan ) but was on the border of inadequate when we visited Tennessee, Georgia , Alabama and Florida
Perhaps your A/C was one of the quiet Coleman Mach 8 a/cs. Casita changed to the Coleman Mach 1 in 2016 and LOTS of Casita owners complained about the noisy A/C. That's why they are installing the hush kit from Perfectcasita. Casita finally discontinued the Mach 1 units in August 2018 and started installing the Mach 8 PLUS.
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Old 12-04-2019, 09:54 PM   #24
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The AC is the only disappointment in our late 2018 5.0. We've had 13 previous trailers with AC and none were as loud as the AC in our 5.0. NONE!

Luckily we're shoulder season campers and only need our AC perhaps once or twice a year, if that. So far in 198 nights we have yet to use the Escape B52 AC unit, but sooner or later we'll be subjected to that obnoxiously loud unit.

Karl, there has to be a quieter AC than the one supplied in our 5.0.

Enjoy,

Perry
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Old 12-05-2019, 07:23 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by rubicon327 View Post
One of the biggest complaints I see in small fiberglass trailers is the A/C noise.
This is an issue with most campers, at least the ones I've had, fiberglass or not. At the time I bought my Escape I would have paid a premium price for an optional proven quieter A/C had such an option existed at the time.
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Old 12-05-2019, 07:45 AM   #26
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Escape used to offer the Coleman Mach2 9200 btu air conditioner. I had it in my 2012 E19. I believe it was better suited for the smaller trailers but they may have discontinued it?
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Old 12-05-2019, 07:48 AM   #27
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Oops, it is still available, I think this was it https://www.rvupgradestore.com/Mach-...c3a2fc1dd6967a
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Old 12-05-2019, 07:50 AM   #28
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The other benefit of this model is that it will operate off a 2000 watt generator without any modifications...If my present 11,500 unit ever quits, I'd be inclined to get this smaller unit.
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Old 12-05-2019, 09:20 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rubicon327 View Post
Hollybee: With all due respect those that think the overhead A/C units are not loud may have some diminished hearing. Maybe the placement in a 21 with bed up front helps a little bit too but they are still undeniably loud when seated at the dinette. One of the biggest complaints I see in small fiberglass trailers is the A/C noise. The standard Dometic and Coleman units are oversized and comprised of antiquated technology.

It goes way beyond just another speed on the fan. I have posted this in my custom A/C thread:

“Imagine for a moment if a trailer manufacturer like Escape took the time to engineer and implement a sleek, split system that
-provides cooling, dehumidifying, heating and fan modes
-is whisper quiet inside and outside
-has inverter compressor technology that reduces amp draw and improves dehumidification versus an oversized constant speed compressor
-provides cooling to 115F, heating down to 15F
-lowers overall trailer height
-creates less aerodynamic drag
-provides for a nicer overall exterior look/profile (especially on smaller trailers)
-has less weight (and possibly the ability to position condenser underneath or where the weight might be desired to positively affect tongue weight)
-provides more room on roof for solar
-no roof opening or opening used for passive ventilation/light or add'l fan
-creates more headroom inside trailer
-auto restart and compressor protection time delay (set EMS on 15 sec delay instead of 2:16 just to protect your A/C)
-no condensate dripping down side of trailer
-easily run on 2KW generator (with no hard start capacitors or SmartStart system to worry about)
-with economy mode (580W) possible to run off inverter tied to lithium battery bank and solar?

Those that want/need A/C deserve better! What's not to love?”


I am realizing ALL of these benefits except the last one with my 9,000 BTUH Fujitsu heat pump. Running off of lithium batteries and solar is still prohibitively expensive but costs are coming down.
Back when I was working ( Electrician) the split units were the hot item for a while but in later years you saw less and less of them being installed . That usually indicates that the price got too high compared to other methods , they had maintenance / repair issues , they discovered they didn’t live up to their sales hype , they didn’t work well in all climates .ETC ETC
We saw the same scenario with high efficiency furnaces , heat pumps , air to air exchangers
My guess would be that the current roof top A/C units are less expensive , easier to install , less complicated , work fairly well and satisfy the needs of most customers .

From what I’ve seen when camping is that when it’s hot , noise level & energy efficiency get pushed to the side .

Why is it that people complain that the A/C is too loud but have no problem running a noisy air polluting generator to run their A/C and don’t hear a thing ?
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Old 12-05-2019, 09:48 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by Perryb67 View Post
Karl, there has to be a quieter AC than the one supplied in our 5.0.
If Karl reads my Custom Air Conditioning Retrofit thread he will see at least two rooftop options. While I extoll the benefits of a mini-split I do admit that a quiet rooftop unit is more practical from an installation and maintenance standpoint on "mass-produced" RV's that travel the country and need reliable warranty repair options.

The Dometic Harrier has an inverter compressor and looks promising. Why are these not made in 120V? Can ETI work with Dometic to have units made for North America?
https://www.dometic.com/en-au/au/pro...specifications

Advanced RV is importing a modified Houghton Belaire unit. This unit has vibration isolation and independent condenser and evaporator fan motors. The standard Dometic's run both fans on one motor shaft. This is not as quiet as a mini-split but is much quieter than standard rooftop A/C's. Direct link to post highlighting these units:
http://www.escapeforum.org/forums/f8...tml#post271225
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Old 12-05-2019, 10:34 AM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steve dunham View Post
From what I’ve seen when camping is that when it’s hot , noise level & energy efficiency get pushed to the side .

Why is it that people complain that the A/C is too loud but have no problem running a noisy air polluting generator to run their A/C and don’t hear a thing ?
I would agree, I take the noise over the heat.

The reason I got solar was so I wouldn't need to take the Honda 2000i, which I owned before hand and have not taken since our 1st trip with the Escape. We hated the noise of the thing even with it in the back of the truck inside the cap. Quiet is a subjective thing.
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Old 12-05-2019, 10:56 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steve dunham View Post
Back when I was working (Electrician) the split units were the hot item for a while but in later years you saw less and less of them being installed. That usually indicates that the price got too high compared to other methods, they had maintenance / repair issues, they discovered they didn’t live up to their sales hype, they didn’t work well in all climates .ETC ETC We saw the same scenario with high efficiency furnaces , heat pumps , air to air exchangers
No heating or cooling equipment type is perfect for all applications. Early split systems may have had some problems. They still can with improper installation. I'm dealing with one now and it is a large tonnage system. Commercially these systems are used all over and we are behind many parts of the world in their application. Also these systems originally were only meant as cooling primarily and supplemental heating to a primary source. That has changed now with hyper-heating systems. I know at least one manufacturer that still has 75% heating capacity at -13F whereas a traditional heat pump would have zero. For most of the population my Fujitsu being able to heat down to 15F would be more than adequate and then you have propane or electric heat options as a backup. Most are not camping when it is that cold. I think you are ignoring advancements in the technology and painting it all with too broad a brush.

Quote:
Originally Posted by steve dunham View Post
My guess would be that the current roof top A/C units are less expensive , easier to install , less complicated , work fairly well and satisfy the needs of most customers.
In my line of work I'm expected to be progressive and try new things. Especially in regards to energy efficiency. It's not always first cost, but life cycle cost that matters. Yes there are bumps in the road, but they usually get worked out. It pains me when an industry that is ripe for innovation in certain aspects is stale and not moving forward. Other countries have much better A/C technology (quieter and more efficient) on their RV's. If our expectations remain low we will continue to get the same junk. Mini-splits are one solution and simply quieter rooftop A/C's are another (see my post #30 above).

Quote:
Originally Posted by steve dunham View Post
From what I’ve seen when camping is that when it’s hot, noise level & energy efficiency get pushed to the side. Why is it that people complain that the A/C is too loud but have no problem running a noisy air polluting generator to run their A/C and don’t hear a thing?
An air conditioner that is quiet inside and outside is a huge benefit to everyone both inside and outside the trailer when one is plugged in to power. If the A/C is small and efficient like my mini-split it can easily be run on a 2000W peak generator. With the advancements in the inverter generators they are much quieter than they used to be. Guys are also running mini-splits on solar and lithium batteries now! Quiet cooling, heating and dehumidifying year-round. Imagine that!! Now we just need to wait for the costs to come down. If we weren't continually striving for better where would we be? I think we should celebrate the incremental advancements in technology we are afforded.
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Old 12-05-2019, 11:39 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by rubicon327 View Post
It pains me when an industry that is ripe for innovation in certain aspects is stale and not moving forward. Other countries have much better A/C technology (quieter and more efficient) on their RV's. If our expectations remain low we will continue to get the same junk. Mini-splits are one solution and simply quieter rooftop A/C's are another (see my post #30 above).
I just read an article about this last week: Why it's time to redesign the old air conditioner
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Old 12-05-2019, 03:15 PM   #34
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Karl very considerately opened the showroom up for us one Saturday last month when we were finally able to make a trip up to Chilliwack. He spent two hours of his personal time with us exploring everything, including showing us the mockup of the new 21' New Edition (which we just placed an order for). We appreciated that commitment and consideration...He seems to really have his head around the company and I believe he'll take it forward to a place that will serve both the customers and the company well.



It'll be sad to sell our Burro, but the excitement of not having to be in so small a trailer that you 'have to go outside to change your mind" is growing and we're looking forward to becoming wandering Escapees as retirement quickly approaches.


Thanks again, Karl!
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Old 12-05-2019, 07:11 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hollybee View Post
Someone needs to come up with a 'frig unit' that slides in and out easily..for repair or replacement. Gas line valves/hoses cannot be that difficult to figure out, right?
I wasn't aware that this was an issue. A few screws, a couple of electrical connections and undo the easily accessible gas line. How much easier could it be?

The opening cut-out was a bit snug, but a bit of wiggle and jiggle and out it came.

Ron
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Old 12-05-2019, 09:10 PM   #36
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Wink AC

Like I said..the roof AC unit in our Casita Indy17 was easily equal to the cooling tasks on several FL camping trips, but was so loud that we often had to turn it off at night... I have a hard time believing there is not some way to add a third. SLOWER speed fan to them. Sheesh. Waay better than no AC, but just too loud.
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Old 12-06-2019, 07:29 AM   #37
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I watched the video lastnight. The company seems to be in great hands! Being an avid dirt bike/ Advrider myself, I asked if additional frame supports could be added to our 21 while being built, the answer was no. I would love to see a 21 with a extended tongue so a motorcycle could be transported on the front, or if the rear hitch could be beefed up to support this. I realize weight balance could be thrown off and would need to be worked out. I think there is a gap in the off-road market and Escape could make a huge splash into that market. Not every off roader wants a giant toy hauler, and would like the durability of Molded Fiberglass Rvs. For now I carry my bike on the front of my truck with a Mototote.
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Old 12-06-2019, 07:37 AM   #38
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I watched the video lastnight. The company seems to be in great hands! Being an avid dirt bike/ Advrider myself, I asked if additional frame supports could be added to our 21 while being built, the answer was no. I would love to see a 21 with a extended tongue so a motorcycle could be transported on the front, or if the rear hitch could be beefed up to support this. I realize weight balance could be thrown off and would need to be worked out. I think there is a gap in the off-road market and Escape could make a huge splash into that market. Not every off roader wants a giant toy hauler, and would like the durability of Molded Fiberglass Rvs. For now I carry my bike on the front of my truck with a Mototote.
Gets my vote
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Old 12-06-2019, 08:02 AM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron in BC View Post
I wasn't aware that this was an issue. A few screws, a couple of electrical connections and undo the easily accessible gas line. How much easier could it be?

The opening cut-out was a bit snug, but a bit of wiggle and jiggle and out it came.

Ron
I believe that for a total fridge replacement in the 2nd gen 21's the entire door assembly of the trailer has to be removed to get the fridge out.
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Old 12-06-2019, 08:05 AM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rubicon327 View Post
If Karl reads my Custom Air Conditioning Retrofit thread he will see at least two rooftop options. While I extoll the benefits of a mini-split I do admit that a quiet rooftop unit is more practical from an installation and maintenance standpoint on "mass-produced" RV's that travel the country and need reliable warranty repair options.

The Dometic Harrier has an inverter compressor and looks promising. Why are these not made in 120V? Can ETI work with Dometic to have units made for North America?
https://www.dometic.com/en-au/au/pro...specifications

Advanced RV is importing a modified Houghton Belaire unit. This unit has vibration isolation and independent condenser and evaporator fan motors. The standard Dometic's run both fans on one motor shaft. This is not as quiet as a mini-split but is much quieter than standard rooftop A/C's. Direct link to post highlighting these units:
http://www.escapeforum.org/forums/f8...tml#post271225
Karl: Would you be gracious enough to provide your thoughts on offering or installing the Houghton Belaire A/C unit. Would you install it if an owner arranged for one to be sent to you from Advanced RV? Offering a quieter A/C could be a game changer for you especially as you look to expand your sales in hotter and more humid parts of the U.S.
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