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Old 07-19-2016, 07:24 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by freespirit View Post
doubt this has anything to do with a small company such as Escape or any other conspiracy theories...just more bureaucratic red tape..looks like they are trying to corral any mfg that doesn't have a traceable VIN to the government std...it will probably cost ETI some more for a lawyer or someone to act as an legal agent in US (if they don't have one) to comply and put up with the paperwork....yes this may impact buyers for the immediate future, but it will get resolved. It may force the production schedule to be pushed out and may result in inventory and cash flow headaches for ETI for the short term. Perhaps they can compress the production schedule for Canadian buyers to keep the doors open until the issues exporting to the US are resolved.
reminiscent of the 80's and 90's when ISO9xxx was somewhat forced on all US mfgs...lots of paperwork and for those mfgs that didn't have good process documentation , it forced them to do a better job and both the mfg and the consumer ended up with a better product in the long run...
this is just about a VIN process it appears, and with no disrespect... one can only imagine what it would take for some small trailer mfg's to pass a ISO9xxx process if they can't even provide a simple wiring diagram....
In the nineties we used to joke that under ISO 9000 you could make styrofoam boat anchors, steel life jackets and concrete parachutes as long as you correctly documented your procedures. ie... you didn't have to make a good product which could compete in a dynamic industry. Back then I worked for a surgical instrument manufacturer and we used to pay for the British Standards Institute (BSI) people to come to Colorado to audit our procedures for the ISO Certification. No offense to the Brits among you (here goes) but we used to joke that the only reason they didn't have a high tech silicon valley type industry was because they couldn't figure out how to get those components to leak oil all over the floor. I loved the BSA Triumph 650 cc motorcycle though.
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Old 07-19-2016, 07:38 PM   #42
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In the nineties we used to joke that under ISO 9000 you could make styrofoam boat anchors, steel life jackets and concrete parachutes as long as you correctly documented your procedures. ie...
LOL..very true..but it did force some mfg's to improve their process and in the process improve their products...
now the early attempts to metric conversion was another matter!
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Old 07-19-2016, 07:38 PM   #43
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US buyers used to import the trailer themselves, which meant they had to pay Canadian sales taxes etc. and then apply to be reimbursed. It also caused headaches for ETI.
Not sure, but importing the trailer yourself might be a fallback.
I agree you pay an excise tax but do not owe any sales tax, which is the same amount.
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Old 07-19-2016, 07:41 PM   #44
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Hi all, just my 2 cents worth, which due to current inflation cost 10 cents. In my line of traffic crash reconstruction the VIN was important in keeping track of the vehicle And was most important in doing downloads for crash data retrieval, in allowing the computer to know exactly what kind of vehicle we have.

I know that we are talking about recreational travel trailers here, but as retired LEO it is important to have a standard VIN for NCIC and LEADS data entry. Escape trailers have been stolen before, and I hope they won't be stolen again, but VIN standards are important. The need for a registered agent only helps the Feds serve process in the states along with any other lawyer out there who wants to chase an ambulance.

Oh and as for export in the regulations, I believe that they mean export from the US not into it. In this one I'll steal Jim Bennett's quote, Never in doubt, often wrong.
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Old 07-19-2016, 07:52 PM   #45
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I know that we are talking about recreational travel trailers here, but as retired LEO it is important to have a standard VIN for NCIC and LEADS data entry. Escape trailers have been stolen before, and I hope they won't be stolen again, but VIN standards are important.
good info...perhaps a really big decal with the vin or license plate # pasted on the roof of a trailer is a good idea so it can be videoed at tollways and traffic enforcement helo's...perhaps on top of the AC unit if the trailer has one.
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Old 07-19-2016, 07:55 PM   #46
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In this one I'll steal Jim Bennett's quote, Never in doubt, often wrong.
Got that wrong.
It's actually Jim Norman's sig line.
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Old 07-19-2016, 07:57 PM   #47
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Yesterday we got an email saying ETI is ready to start building our trailer. Yay! Today we got the email about the possible delay. Sigh. Our reservations are already made for the trip in August to BC to pick up our Escape and for a month of camping in our new trailer while we are out west. Also several friends from the east coast have made their plans to camp with us. We are thinking that ETI would not have sent us the email if they weren't expecting a delay.
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Old 07-19-2016, 07:57 PM   #48
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Would the exchange rate have something to do with this ? Pat
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Old 07-19-2016, 08:02 PM   #49
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Got that wrong.
It's actually Jim Norman's sig line.
That's for sure, 'cause I'm never wrong.
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Old 07-19-2016, 08:12 PM   #50
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Hopefully Reace will post here to shed some light on why this has happened and what is required for them to export again.

Regarding the VIN- our placard has a corner that has lifted-could peel it off if I wanted. Is the VIN recorded anywhere else on the trailer?
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Old 07-19-2016, 08:23 PM   #51
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About 30 years ago they used to say about Harley Davidson Motorcycles,'if it wasn't leaking oil, it was out. I didn't want to seem cruel stranding bureaucrats without food or
water. Let's hope cooler heads prevail in the import export quandary and everybody gets to just go camping.
Tomorrow is another day, I came up with this myself, really.
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Old 07-19-2016, 08:31 PM   #52
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Things like this really weren't supposed to happen with NAFTA. It doesn't matter what the rules are, the bureaucracy wins.
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Old 07-19-2016, 08:35 PM   #53
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Wow - all exports temporarily suspended

The US regulatory burden and bureaucracy has grown exponentially in the last several years. That's not a political statement, it's a fact. US citizens are caught up every day (in one way or another) in the mess caused by unelected and unaccountable bureaucrats. This is just another example. Not all regulation is burdensome, and much of it is necessary. This new requirement by the NHTSA however is a solution in search of a problem. You can bet that when that happens, someone or a number of someones have actively lobbied for it, to benefit themselves and hurt others.


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Old 07-19-2016, 08:36 PM   #54
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Originally Posted by Rossue View Post
Hopefully Reace will post here to shed some light on why this has happened and what is required for them to export again.

Regarding the VIN- our placard has a corner that has lifted-could peel it off if I wanted. Is the VIN recorded anywhere else on the trailer?
Rossue isn't your vin number in your closet on the paper with your stats ? Also outside on the sticker . I was thinking of putting on roof , maybe get a metal tag attached to frame . Someone posted the importance of vin to help with recovery maybe if trailer is stolen . That makes sence to me . Needing to be in a data base too. I am sure this will eventually get cleared up . Pat
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Old 07-19-2016, 08:57 PM   #55
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Originally Posted by Rossue View Post
Hopefully Reace will post here to shed some light on why this has happened and what is required for them to export again.

Regarding the VIN- our placard has a corner that has lifted-could peel it off if I wanted. Is the VIN recorded anywhere else on the trailer?
There is an indelible secret VIN somewhere else on the trailer. The exact location is known only to certified vehicle theft investigators. Common law enforcement officers and other uncertified officials do not have access to the exact location.
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Old 07-19-2016, 09:18 PM   #56
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A good friend was a theft investigator for our State Patrol. He never showed me any secrets but he was really proud of his tool kit. It had more fancy little mirrors than a dentist's office. He really liked his job which was one that took about 25 years seniority to even seriously bid on. Whenever I take possession of anything that has a serial or VIN I make copies of the title and or take pictures of the item and serial number and store them in a safe place.
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Old 07-19-2016, 09:30 PM   #57
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According to the regulations mentioned, Section 30112 (B)(3) excludes from the provision any manufacturer who makes a product specifically and marked "For Export only" ...
Keep in mind who is in what country. When a U.S. regulation refers to products made "for export only", surely they mean made in the U.S. for export from the U.S. This has nothing to do with Escape, which neither manufactures in the U.S. nor exports from the U.S.

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If Escape marks their US trailers for Export and their domestic trailers are not subject to these rules, I think this is much to ado about nothing.
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Yes, I'm aware of at least 2 members here that left last week to pick up their trailer later this week, vacation time and $$$ are all in limbo. But as I read the reg's, other than some bookkeeping, "Export" only units are not involved and of course those sold to Canadians are not subject to US regs.
This certainly is a non-issue for Escape trailers sold in Canada (because, as others have mentioned, no U.S. regulation applies to them), but it is completely - albeit temporarily - stopping exports from Canada (which are imports to the U.S.) by Escape, which is clearly an issue for several buyers.
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Old 07-19-2016, 09:44 PM   #58
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I agree you pay an excise tax but do not owe any sales tax, which is the same amount.
I believe that was baglo's point: in this self-import scheme, a U.S. resident would buy an Escape trailer in British Columbia, where they would pay all of B.C.'s taxes, including the federal Goods and Services Tax (GST) of 5% and a provincial sales tax (PST) of 7%. When they take the trailer out of B.C. and out of Canada, they might be able to claim a rebate of that sales tax from B.C., but that would be a hassle - and substantial expense if they can't get it back. Presumably neither the U.S. federal government nor the U.S. resident's home state would care what tax was paid to the B.C. government, and will charge whatever of their taxes apply.

Currently, it appears that this hypothetical U.S. resident buyer of an Escape could be exempted from paying the PST at all, but there are consequences...
Quote:
Vehicles Purchased for Use Outside BC
If you purchase a vehicle in BC for use outside BC, you are exempt from PST provided all the following criteria are met:
 the vehicle is a type that is eligible for registration (i.e. it is not a vehicle that cannot be registered),
 the vehicle is purchased for use primarily outside BC,
 the vehicle will not be used in BC for a business purpose,
 the vehicle will not be registered in BC, and
 if you are purchasing the vehicle as an individual, you are not a resident of BC.
You are also exempt from PST on the purchase of a vehicle if the vehicle is shipped by the seller for delivery to an address outside of BC. To be eligible for the exemption, no use must be made of the vehicle by the purchaser while the vehicle is in BC.
Yep, no checking out B.C. or camping close to the Chilliwack mother ship... ever.

Escape exporting the trailer to the U.S. is a significant service for buyers who are U.S. residents. I don't know what nightmare would face someone importing a trailer to the U.S. which has never been registered anywhere and fails in any respect to conform to U.S. vehicle regulations.
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Old 07-19-2016, 09:47 PM   #59
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What did I say, often wrong.
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Old 07-19-2016, 09:48 PM   #60
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Things like this really weren't supposed to happen with NAFTA.
NAFTA is generally supposed to mean that companies can compete across national boundaries within North America as if they are locals. "Free Trade" means no barriers, not no rules to follow. In this case, the only requirement of foreign (to the U.S.) manufacturers is to have a U.S. resident agent. Once that administrative setup is done, it's a level playing field in the NHTSA regulations, so I don't see a problem here.
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