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Old 09-18-2020, 01:24 PM   #1
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Lithium replacement?

My 2 original old school 6v batteries are now in year 7 and it's time for them to go. Not concerned with the good/bad aspects of battery choices but, I am however considering a replacement lithium battery. Not looking to spend a thousand bucks, nor changing out my factory WFCO, or my Morningstar solar controller. I do carry 200 watts of portable solar. We don't need something to keep us electrified for any long term boondocking.

Thoughts: Will one of these 12 volt lithiums be a good option? $517.49 on Amazon seems like a very good deal.
  • Renogy 12V 200AH Rechargeable Deep Cycle Hybrid Gel Battery for Solar Wind RV Marine Camping UPS Wheelchair Trolling Motor, Maintenance Free, Non Spillable
  • Size:200Ah Hybrid Gel
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Old 09-18-2020, 01:47 PM   #2
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I just looked for AGM's, a single Lifeline 6v is $389 & tax at a local battery distributor. $517 for a lithium doesn't sound bad at all. Can you post a link? I can't find a Hybrid Gel Lithium battery.
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Old 09-18-2020, 01:58 PM   #3
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Hope this link below works. It may not.. so, to find it in Amazon I just went to lithium rv battery. Renology 12v (By the way FYI I just read several pretty bad reports on renology batteries and non-existent customer service.)

ref=sr_1_9.html
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Old 09-18-2020, 01:59 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MyronL View Post
My 2 original old school 6v batteries are now in year 7 and it's time for them to go. Not concerned with the good/bad aspects of battery choices but, I am however considering a replacement lithium battery. Not looking to spend a thousand bucks, nor changing out my factory WFCO, or my Morningstar solar controller. I do carry 200 watts of portable solar. We don't need something to keep us electrified for any long term boondocking.

Thoughts: Will one of these 12 volt lithiums be a good option? $517.49 on Amazon seems like a very good deal.
  • Renogy 12V 200AH Rechargeable Deep Cycle Hybrid Gel Battery for Solar Wind RV Marine Camping UPS Wheelchair Trolling Motor, Maintenance Free, Non Spillable
  • Size:200Ah Hybrid Gel
That is not a lithium battery. It is described as a Hybrid GEL, what ever that is. I suspect it is a Gel battery with a fancy name. Nothing wrong with them although you do have to treat them a bit better than standard lead acid batteries. If I was going to stay with lead acid, I'd go with Lifeline AGM batteries. By the way, it weights 128 pounds...
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Old 09-18-2020, 02:09 PM   #5
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Wow, it sure pays to read the fine print. Thanks Jon. Can you recommend something based upon my original post?
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Old 09-18-2020, 02:46 PM   #6
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OK, so looking now at the Lifeline 6v GPL-4ct. 66 pounds, deep cycle, 5 yr warrantee. rated at 925 amps @ 32 degrees F. $339.99 from BD Batteries (US).

Interestingly, their 12v deep cycle (GPL-31T) weighs 64 pounds but is 880 amps at 68F
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Old 09-18-2020, 02:46 PM   #7
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Wow, it sure pays to read the fine print. Thanks Jon. Can you recommend something based upon my original post?
Well you won't like the price, but I went with Battleborn. There are others out there that are less expensive, but I've been happy with my choice. One would have replaced my two 6V 225 amp hour batteries, except that I have a microwave that, at full power, draws 140 amps on the inverter. Battleborn limits the per battery draw at 100 amps ( a bit more for short periods), so I needed 2. I also like the fact that I almost doubled the overall trailer capacity and dropped the weight by 80 pounds.

Renogy does make (well, packages, since all the individual cells originate from China) lithium batteries, however I have had no experience with them & have not been impressed with Renogy's customer service.
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Old 09-18-2020, 02:53 PM   #8
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OK, so looking now at the Lifeline 6v GPL-4ct. 66 pounds, deep cycle, 5 yr warrantee. rated at 925 amps @ 32 degrees F. $339.99 from BD Batteries (US).

Interestingly, their 12v deep cycle (GPL-31T) weighs 64 pounds but is 880 amps at 68F
That is cranking amperage. To compare it to standard deep cycle batteries, use Amp Hours at 20 hour rate (the industry standard) - the GPL-31T is a 105 amp hour battery.

The Lifeline GPL-4CT is a true deep cycle battery, but, of course, you would need two, giving you 220 amp hours at the 20 hour rate. They can be drawn down a bit more than standard lead acid batteries, but not as far as lithium.
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Old 09-18-2020, 03:01 PM   #9
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Bloody hell. Can't win.
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Old 09-18-2020, 03:10 PM   #10
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Renogy does make (well, packages, since all the individual cells originate from China) lithium batteries, however I have had no experience with them & have not been impressed with Renogy's customer service.
There's a recent thread on FiberglassRV addressing the less-than-poor Renogy customer service. Renogy Rant
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Old 09-18-2020, 04:29 PM   #11
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This has got me now leaning toward one Battleborn 100AH LifeP04 deep cycle lithium --from the manufacturer in Nevada. (Damn, my inner Jack Benny!)
Weird--Ebay has it for several hundred bucks more.

If I did need more juice, thinking I'd be firing up the WEN anyway.
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Old 09-18-2020, 07:01 PM   #12
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LiPO4 batteries are ideal for 3-season camping, except for the initial cost. But if treated right they should last much longer than lead-acid (including AGM) batteries.
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Old 09-18-2020, 07:11 PM   #13
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A friend of ours purchased Lifeline AGM's for $650. Totally overpriced. Our school had been using Crown batteries for years, so I purchased two AGM Crowns for $460. Yes, we had one go bad, it happens with them all, Lifeline included. When their Lifelines were going on two years they could no longer charge to 100% full.

If I was only looking at Lifeline AGM's at $700+, I'd pass, and spend a little more for lithium.

Enjoy,

Perry
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Old 09-18-2020, 09:06 PM   #14
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This has got me now leaning toward one Battleborn 100AH LifeP04 deep cycle lithium --from the manufacturer in Nevada.
Another brand to consider for LiFePo4 is Dakota. They make various sizes, 7AH up to 100AH. I bought a 10AH for my fishing electronics a couple of years ago. It proved to be successful for my needs so I recently bought a 100AH for the trolling motor.

In a couple of trials I towed a fishing kayak with a friend behind my pontoon boat for about 8 hours per day - a fairly demanding task to ask of a battery. It held the voltage above 13V the entire time and at recharge appeared to still be half full. With only 3 or 4 recharges the entire summer I can not vouch for its longevity, but hoping for the best. They are a bit cheaper than BattleBorn at $900.

I did use it in the trailer last week to run the electric blanket over a few days of cold and cloudy weather (no sun to power the solar panels). The issue that worries me is that the LiFePo4 chemistry needs about 14.4 to do a full recharge. Our standard GoPro solar controller does not provide that, but your Morningstar just might. On the other hand, charging less than 100% should not be detrimental to the lifespan of the battery - unlike a lead-acid.

Hope that helps your decision making.
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Old 09-18-2020, 09:28 PM   #15
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Thanks, much appreciated. I have made my decision. It will be the Battleburros - I mean the Battleborn. All things considered, advice gratefully received, warrantee, etc., this seems right for me, despite the hole I just burned in my card.
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Old 09-18-2020, 09:42 PM   #16
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Fret not

As a wise, old sage once passed on this tidbit to me, "coffins don't have pockets", so spend that coin and enjoy the moment, and the battery.



You bought a what....battery?


Just charge it!,

on your credit card.
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Old 09-18-2020, 09:44 PM   #17
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I heard that. It's only plastic.
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Old 09-18-2020, 09:46 PM   #18
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Yes, but....

It's fantastic.....plastic.
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Old 09-18-2020, 10:28 PM   #19
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Thanks, much appreciated. I have made my decision. It will be the Battleburros - I mean the Battleborn. All things considered, advice gratefully received, warrantee, etc., this seems right for me, despite the hole I just burned in my card.
I sure don't want to be a killjoy, Myron, but noting you don't seem to use solar for charging .... do you still have the ETI original equipment AC>DC charger-unit in your 2013 E19? And are you confident that charger will provide what's needed to realize the full life and potential of that Battleborn investment?

I do not know the answers, but based on my very early studying / learning about lithium batteries and such it seems those are valid questions ... perhaps the very knowledgeable Jon Vermilye could chime-in again with some reassurance?

with apology in advance if out of ignorance I'm raising a needless kerfuffle
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Old 09-19-2020, 09:22 AM   #20
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I sure don't want to be a killjoy, Myron, but noting you don't seem to use solar for charging .... do you still have the ETI original equipment AC>DC charger-unit in your 2013 E19? And are you confident that charger will provide what's needed to realize the full life and potential of that Battleborn investment?

I do not know the answers, but based on my very early studying / learning about lithium batteries and such it seems those are valid questions ... perhaps the very knowledgeable Jon Vermilye could chime-in again with some reassurance?

with apology in advance if out of ignorance I'm raising a needless kerfuffle
The WFCO converter that Escape uses is, on paper, capable of fully charging the Battleborn battery. Battleborn posts that 14.4V is acceptable to fully charge their batteries. The problem is it is difficult to get the WFCO converter to go into the bulk voltage of 14.4V.

If it stays in absorption at 13.6, the battery will not fully charge, but that will not damage it. Even the 13.2V float won't hurt, just won't fully charge the battery.

When I had my pair of 6V Interstate batteries, I never saw the WFCO converter go into bulk. It is possible that the lithium battery when drawn down will draw enough current that the converter will switch to bulk, but I had already replaced mine with a lithium converter when I added the lithium batteries, so I have no idea if it will see bulk.

As to the solar, many controllers have the ability to set parameters for charging. The lithium batteries from Battleborn prefer 14.4 - 14.6V for both bulk & absorption (the absorption stage, if adjustable is set for 30 minutes per battery & is used to balance the individual cells). Float is not necessary, but can be set at 13.6V. No equalization, or, if it can't be turned off, set at 14.4V.
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