Bikes and rear receiver weight

[TomEscape]

Originally Posted by hiker

After having our 2008 17B rear trailer hitch inspected in 2020 by a welding expert we were assured that there would be no issues with our Swagman E-Bike carrier and our 2 RAD E-bikes at 80 lbs each on the rear of our trailer. We have since travelled across Canada twice (both in spring and fall 8,000 km each trip) with these bikes on the back, through rain, sleet and snow, without issue. My advice is to have an expert welder, familiar with trailers and RVs inspect your hitch to your satisfaction. Our inspection assured us of the strength of our hitch. Oh yes, we did remove the E-bike batteries for travel (-10 lbs each) but we were still well over a 150 pound load.

Hi, thanks for this helpful reply. This is the sort of information that I was looking for and I will find a structural welder to have a look. Thanks!

[TomEscape]

1-Up Super duty 2-bike rack, with fat tire add-on, Escape C21 rear end modified with two additional 2-inch receivers and support arms, to help distribute the load and forces, and specifically, reduce the twisting force on the single factory receiver. [/QUOTE]

Hi, thanks for this post and the pics. This is a nice solution!

[Carmel Clown]

Originally Posted by DanK

I reinforced my reciever by bolting a steel plate at each cross member where the tube was welded . I let the steel stick out far enough to add a u bolt to tie down the bicycle rack and keep it from moving I also added bolts to the folding plates on the bike rack it self to further stabilize it . Seems rock solid , only time will tell

May I see pictures please?

[Carmel Clown]

Originally Posted by jking1224

As soon as I wrote my post, I knew there would be a request for photos, but I didn’t have any. So, I went out to storage and took some photos.

1-Up Super duty 2-bike rack, with fat tire add-on, Escape C21 rear end modified with two additional 2-inch receivers and support arms, to help distribute the load and forces, and specifically, reduce the twisting force on the single factory receiver. Total weight exceeds Escape factory rating of 150. Probably close to 180 lbs.

Trying to get things straight in my head. So you are saying that the bumper is plenty strong enough to support more than 150 pounds, it’s just that the receiver tube isn’t. How much weight did the 2 additional receivers and support bars add to the back of the trailer? Did you move your spare to help with weight distribution? Do you have the under body insulation and would that interfere with mounting additional receivers? Thanks.

[Carmel Clown]

Originally Posted by TomEscape

Hi, thanks for this helpful reply. This is the sort of information that I was looking for and I will find a structural welder to have a look. Thanks!

Wondering how will carrying more than the recommended 150 pounds affect your insurance claim if something fails and causes an accident?

[C&G in FL]

I hesitate to post this but the dead horse named Receiver Limit 150 lbs. has been beaten more than enough. In an earlier post I mentioned that ETI stopped offering a reinforced receiver rated for 500 lbs. prior to 2015. While I was working on my build sheet, I asked Reace about the 150 lbs. rating of the non-reinforced (standard) receiver because I had weighed my 1Up rack and our two bicycles finding total weight was close to 150 lbs (142 lbs. if I remember correctly). I was concerned that I was going to be “close to the limit.” He specifically told me that he discontinued the reinforced receiver because he didn’t want customers to think that a 500 lbs. rating meant the receiver should be indiscriminately loaded to that limit. He stated that he was very concerned with weight distribution and dangerous trailer sway. He told me that I shouldn’t be “as concerned” as a 5th wheel is less susceptible to sway. And he added that the receiver was strong enough to handle more than 150 lbs. Since this was a private conversation between to individuals, in legal terms, it is heresay.
My take from this, or I could say my interpretation is that if at one time ETI offered a reinforced receiver then the frame is strong enough to handle more than 150 lbs. Also, some here have noted that they have made bumper modifications. Therefore, the real question is “what is the reason for the 150 lbs max sticker.” Is it due to potential improper weight distribution and sway resulting in potential liability (similar to McDonalds coffee is hot, don’t put the cup between your legs)? Or is it due to potential weld failure? Given that another member posted that a welder examined his receiver and said it would handle more than 150 lbs. and also given that Reace told me that if I exceeded 150 lbs on my 5.0 TA it wouldn’t be problematic, I believe the answer to the question is related to liability resulting from sway and not the strength of the receiver or it’s welds.
OTOH, anything can fail. A small handful of Escape owners have experienced frame failures and another I know of lost the spare tire (and mount) off the bumper. So my bottom line is (YMMV) is if it provides comfort to beef up the receiver and carry 250 lbs on it, please be careful to calculate the tongue weight and load accordingly, and/or use an anti-sway hitch.

[Donna D.]

Originally Posted by C&G in FL

I hesitate to post this but the dead horse named Receiver Limit 150 lbs. has been beaten more than enough.

In the simplest terms.. everything works, until it doesn't.

[Mike G]

The person who vouched for the strength of the frame and receiver at the rear is the same person who had to issue two frame recalls for the front.

Ya pays yer money and ya takes yer chances...

[C&G in FL]

Originally Posted by Mike G

The person who vouched for the strength of the frame and receiver at the rear is the same person who had to issue two frame recalls for the front.

Ya pays yer money and ya takes yer chances...

Does it matter that the front of the frame in a trailer that weighs between 2,000 lbs and 4,000 lbs. (approximate weights) depending upon model is likely under greater stress than a weld holding a receiver on the rear bumper? The whole point of my post was not to dispute strength, weld quality, the expertise of the source, but to state that from the conversation with the same person who issued frame recalls led me to understand that the 150 lbs. limit sticker was applied to address potential trailer sway that can result in serious or fatal accidents and not out of strength concerns. I would never suggest that either metal fatigue or improper or failed welds do not exist. One of my favorite expressions is “if you drive a vehicle with a standard transmission, shift happens.” And it sometimes happens even when you are not pushing your luck, i.e., taking chances. I will say no more.

[BobG]

Originally Posted by C&G in FL

The whole point of my post was not to dispute strength, weld quality, the expertise of the source, but to state that from the conversation with the same person who issued frame recalls led me to understand that the 150 lbs. limit sticker was applied to address potential trailer sway that can result in serious or fatal accidents and not out of strength concerns.

I have a 21NE and with one ebike(-battery) on the back bumper I am just at 10% tongue weight (515 lbs). Adding another bike and I would need to make some other changes to keep the tongue at 10% or more. When I add my bike (no battery) and bike rack, it removes 65 lbs from the tongue. This is putting a lot of weight at the end of the trailer at the same time reducing the tongue weight. Makes me cautious.

[John in Santa Cruz]

my large frame Motobecane (bikesdirect.com) class 1 is about 40 lbs, and thats with 29x2 tires, 9 speeds, hydraulic disk brakes, and air shock forks.. Its drive train and battery pack are 100% Shimano. Its about the quietest and smoothest ebike I've ridden, the power assist is almost magical, it simply doubles your strength without any intrusion.



edit: oops, weighed my bike as currently configured, and its closer to 50 lbs. My wife's Specialized Turbo Como small frame step-through, also a class 1, with 27.5x2.3" tires, is 45 lbs, and the 1Up super duty dual rack is 50 lbs. I've traveled 1000s of miles with both bikes on the back, many of those miles on rough roads. I definitely had to shift cargo towards the front of the trailer, i store heavy stuff like liquor, beer, wine, soda under the front bed on our 21C. Switching to Lithium batts probably took close to 100 lbs off the back end, too.

[Fender]

Originally Posted by John in Santa Cruz

my large frame Motobecane (bikesdirect.com) class 1 is about 40 lbs, and thats with 29x2 tires, 9 speeds, hydraulic disk brakes, and air shock forks.. Its drive train and battery pack are 100% Shimano. Its about the quietest and smoothest ebike I've ridden, the power assist is almost magical, it simply doubles your strength without any intrusion.

Sharp looking bike!

[Ooshkaboo]

This helps the back and forth wobble, I’m hoping enough to keep things from getting unstable over time.

[Ron in BC]

Originally Posted by BobG

I have a 21NE and with one ebike(-battery) on the back bumper I am just at 10% tongue weight (515 lbs). Adding another bike and I would need to make some other changes to keep the tongue at 10% or more. When I add my bike (no battery) and bike rack, it removes 65 lbs from the tongue. This is putting a lot of weight at the end of the trailer at the same time reducing the tongue weight. Makes me cautious.

That's when removing the spare from the rear and mounting it under the tongue makes sense. 70# off the rear and moved forward.

Ron

[John in Santa Cruz]

Originally Posted by Ooshkaboo

This helps the back and forth wobble, I’m hoping enough to keep things from getting unstable over time.

hmmm. I clamp down real hard on the allen key that engages the ball in the hitch on the 1Up, and I don't have any wobble at all

[Ooshkaboo]

Originally Posted by John in Santa Cruz

hmmm. I clamp down real hard on the allen key that engages the ball in the hitch on the 1Up, and I don't have any wobble at all

I’m not sure but I believe all or most 1Up have that Allen key, that’s not the wobble I was referring to. Sorry I assumed it would be obvious I hooked the other end to the upper of the outer bike.

[jking1224]

to answer Carmel Clown:
the additional receivers and support arms add maybe 15-20 lbs. I still have the factory spare tire in original position. I have factory spray foam insulation too. There is no interference.

The additional receivers are parallel to the factory receiver. I end up with three identical receivers on the rear, all lined up, about 18 inches apart.

As for the frame begin strong enough, yes. It is the same frame of the entire rear of the trailer, including the dinette with seating for 4 adults. So, the frame is strong enough for hundreds of pounds. I added to support arms to eliminate the twisting forces on the single factory receiver.

The concerns about too much tail weight affecting sway are valid. Just be sure to keep some heavy supplies up front for a proper distribution. Also, I also switched to lithium batteries from dual 6v. So I saved 50-75 lbs in the rear doing that.

[edlynnrich]

Originally Posted by Ooshkaboo

This helps the back and forth wobble, I’m hoping enough to keep things from getting unstable over time.

I like this idea. Keeping it simple. I’m going to give it a try.

[DanK]

Originally Posted by Carmel Clown

May I see pictures please?

rear reciever. I also have tail lights wired on the bike rack .

[Ooshkaboo]

Originally Posted by edlynnrich

I like this idea. Keeping it simple. I’m going to give it a try.

I did take a suggestion from a Ron post and drilled out the diameter for a larger eyelet bolt.