A note about lug nuts for new members

[John in Santa Cruz]

Originally Posted by jeffhaltiner

yep, it was a factory installed trailer hitch. I did make a big deal about this when taking it in for the replacement of those bolts. (i assume they are either supposed to use lock washers or "lock-tite" spray? and they did the repair for free with apologies. But it definitely scared the heck out of me. I will say I do love the Kia Telluride as a tow vehicle for our E19. Pulls it pretty well (hard up the big grades tho) but a great vehicle for our other uses (didn't want a pickup or full-size SUV since we're just occasional RVers. I think it was a good compromise, and offered some advantages over the similar Toyota Highlander, Honda Pilot, and VW Atlas.

I've installed a few hitches on vehicles like Volvo 740 wagons, which had the fine threaded class 12.9 holes in the frame already... those hardened bolts were torqued down like 100 ft lbs or more, dry, no locktite or lock washers at those torques.

my guess is, your original hitch was never properly torqued at the factory.

had a few vehicles with factory hitches, ford van, toyota tacoma, ford f250, none of them have ever come loose. now, I did have a tow ball come off the ball mount, and can only blame myself, I think I installed that one without using a torque wrench. Note that a 2" 6000 lb tow-ball with a 1" shank needs to be torqued down to like 250 ft-lbs!


I don't have a 250 ft-lb torque wrench, so instead, I installed the new ball carrier sideways, measured 2 feet out the horizontal wrench from the shank, and put 125 lbs of weight on the wrench.

[cpaharley2008]

Corky and Darlene stopped in one day here in Pennsylvania to see Noelia and myself awhile back, very interesting and nice couple.....

[dfandrews]

Here's a HF tool that I find to be really handy when torquing lug nuts.
HF 62491

[CE Vogel]

Originally Posted by mfschu

Thanks Dave for the additional details! So it sounds like it's a problem for all trailers, not just Escapes, but Escape stresses this so their owners don't lose a wheel. Is this an issue more common on trailers for some reason as compared to cars and pickups? I've never been told to check my lug nuts on my car or truck. I have seen plenty of YouTube videos of lose wheels coming at cars on the highway and it is scary!

Loosening lug nuts is more of an issue for tandem axle trailers than most other vehicles. This is partly due to the side loading of the wheels while going around a corner; one axle is scuffing sideways going around a turn, putting tremendous side loading on the wheels and lug nuts. I had a single axle trailer and never had loose lug nuts, my tandem axle trailer occasionally has loose lug nuts. Both trailers have Dexter axles with brakes and aluminum wheels.

[Iowa Dave]

When I was around loading docks back when I worked for a living, I often noticed the sliding tires as drivers backed into a tight dock. Now when I look, I often see tire tracks on hard surfaces campground roads and pads where tight backing is required.

I’m not sure it’s noted on the new Goodyear Endurance tires but I have seen the feature slogan “Scuff guard” on trailer tire sidewalls. It apparently refers to construction or tire composition which resists wear or delaminating on the outside edge of the tire that is vulnerable to scuffing. I would think that some folks might interpret this term as resistance to the tire getting beat up by getting scuffed up by dragging along a curb and maybe that’s true too, but if you’ve watched those “non turning” but still moving tires on trailers chirping across dry pavement you will get an appreciation for the forces at work. There are many many forces in play on trailer wheels not the least importantly, lug nut torque, bearing seating and lubrication and finally inflation pressure and loading.

Your trailer ownership includes attention to maintenance which hopefully you don’t consider it onerous but instead part of the experience.
Have a great day, the weekend is just beyond the horizon. Number one activity in the USA today according to me ( and I’m pretty clueless most of the time) is snack and drink shopping
in preparation for the football game Sunday. Personally, I have to air up a rear tractor tire, supposed to be a heavy wet snow coming in and I’m allergic to shovels.
Iowa Dave

[sciteach111]

Originally Posted by jeffhaltiner

well, i've mentioned this on this forum but i'll stress it again: I was religiously checking my lug nut tightness our our E19 and tow vehicle (Kia Telluride). When i returned home from a 3000 mile fall trip in the SW, i realized that all 4 bolts holding my entire tow hitch to my car had come loose and fallen out! While the tow hitch had not fallen off (which would have been a disaster), it was totally loose with several inches of play, and had been banging around the back/underside of my car for several hundred miles! Terrifying in retrospect! So now in addition to the wheel lug nuts, i check for tightness on my tow hitch bolts! (I've never heard of this happening to anyone else, so maybe it's a one off?).

Thanks to all of the forum members for safety tips on equipment. I always check my wheel lugs but I have never checked the hitch bolts.

Getting ready for a trip in a few weeks (based on good forum suggestions) decided to check all the hitch bolts.
Crawled under my 2019 Honda passport, six large bolts holding the hitch to the car. Hitch was installed at the dealership when car was new.

Five of bolts good and tight, could not move with my big breaker bar. Number six was only hand tight. Got out the locktite and the torque wrench and tightened (Honda calls for only 65 Lb, Draw tight calls for 89 Lb and Curt calls for 130 Lb)
I went to 100lb and then snugged with the breaker bar.
Hitch was in no danger of falling off BUT it was not right ether.

[SageRpod]

Originally Posted by CE Vogel

Loosening lug nuts is more of an issue for tandem axle trailers than most other vehicles. This is partly due to the side loading of the wheels while going around a corner; one axle is scuffing sideways going around a turn, putting tremendous side loading on the wheels and lug nuts. I had a single axle trailer and never had loose lug nuts, my tandem axle trailer occasionally has loose lug nuts. Both trailers have Dexter axles with brakes and aluminum wheels.

Thanks for that explanation. Now I understand why our single axle Rpod never had a single loose lug nut even when new, unlike our 5.0 which consistently had loose lug nuts for it first 800 miles.

[CE Vogel]

Originally Posted by SageRpod

Thanks for that explanation. Now I understand why our single axle Rpod never had a single loose lug nut even when new, unlike our 5.0 which consistently had loose lug nuts for it first 800 miles.

The tandem axle stresses that result in loose lug nuts also cause greater tire failures for the same reasons. Here is a link to a lengthy article from a retired tire engineer that describes "Interply Shear". If you read all the way through the article and view the attached videos, you will see how tandem axle trailer tire failures and loose lug nuts are related. Do this when you have some time to kill.
https://www.rvtiresafety.net/search/...terply%20Shear

[richrv]

What socket size is needed to tighten lug nuts on the E21C?

[rubicon327]

Originally Posted by richrv

What socket size is needed to tighten lug nuts on the E21C?

Should be 13/16".

[Iowa Dave]

If you’re buying a single socket, I’d advise getting a 6 Point socket for best fit and so you don’t round off the corners on the flats. A three inch or 6 inch extension helps keep the ratchet and your hand clear of the tire sidewall. Most folks use a 1/2 inch drive ratchet so your socket will fit a 1/2 inch drive torque wrench. Usually these adjustable wrenches are rated at like 30 to 150 foot pounds. Final torque that I use is 95 foot pounds. Others may have a different technique. I start and run all five nuts down with my fingers. Then torque in a star pattern to 35 ft lbs, then 65 foot pounds, then finish with 95 foot pounds .

Take your time and check the nuts after towing a few miles. Do not Lubricate the nuts or the wheel studs. But do make sure they are free of grit and dry.

I know this is more than you asked for. It’s only 30 degrees F this morning and I’m avoiding changing oil on my Nissan till it warms up a little.
Iowa Dave

[Randy in Maine]

Originally Posted by richrv

What socket size is needed to tighten lug nuts on the E21C?

A 13/16" deep well socket is a plus.

[Escape_19]

This post is NUTS

[Iowa Dave]

Originally Posted by Escape_19

This post is NUTS

Should have noted that the deep well socket is the best way to go for me too. Thanks, Randy. I have a set of deep well impacts and I just keep the 13/16 in the tool box so I can use the Milwaukee impact to back the lug nuts off when I want to rotate the tires. The Milwaukee usually stays home though. I can only haul so much with the Highlander especially if hauling craft beer, it’s a little better in the payload department, if I haul light beer but it don’t taste so good. If you really get into the whole thread angle thing, nut torque, metallurgical details of the studs and nuts and all the calculations, you may need more 9% brew.
Iowa Dave

[SageRpod]

ETI has a good video

https://escapetrailer.com/videos-ori...ery-5f7bb3d-31

[schmidjo]

As you know I do recommend lubricating the lug-nuts. Once again, it's super important to get proper bolt tension. If the friction happens to be too high (more likely to happen w/o lube) then you are not achieving what the OEM intended no matter how accurate the torque wrench (btw "accurate torque wrench" = oxymoron ).

See my 2020 post which I spent _a lot_ of time on and you can consider it the final word no matter what the peanut gallery says. Look, broken leg, are going to believe a bunch of people with their first aid certificate, or the orthopedic surgeon with 30 years' experience ?

https://www.escapeforum.org/forums/f...s-19365-5.html

[Btw I was the engineer responsible for the bolting of pump up in BC pumping nasty stuff back deep into ground. If that pump's joint burps or fails the kill radius is many miles. The cover was 10 inches thick the pump's pressure was over 5000 psi. The total bolt force was over 5 million lbf. You're damn right the studs and nuts and washers were lubricated. Why? because all we had was torque to get the tension, and that tension had to be as consistent and as accurate as possible. ]

For safety's sake please at least use a little wd-40 !

If you are checking wheel lugs and they are ever loose (need re-torque to spec), then my point is made! (there was not enough preload ) [outside 6 months or so from new for embedding ] .

[Iowa Dave]

That’s the great thing about living in the USA. You torque your nuts your way and I’ll torque mine my way. As long as there are not Lug nut police stopping cars and trucks and trailers and doing a foot pound inspection there’s not much impact from preaching superiority when it comes to lug nuts or any other kind of nuts. The only thing I’ve ever pumped into the ground is water to keep trees alive and I’ve done my share of that.
I’ll be in Missouri tomorrow with the 21 so if you see me on the road, rest assured I’ve used my accurate torque wrench on my unlubricated studs. And I ain’t gonna hurt nobody.
I will be playing some Kenny Rodgers tunes including “You picked.a fine time to leave me loose wheel.
Iowa Dave

[Ron in BC]

Originally Posted by Iowa Dave

rest assured I’ve used my accurate torque wrench on my unlubricated studs. And I ain’t gonna hurt nobody.

Iowa Dave

I was looking at a wheel catalog yesterday and noticed that they listed the torque specifications as 90 to 120 ft./lbs.

I do use a torque wrench now mostly because it's convenient, like an oversize ratchet. But for a whole lot of years there was never a torque wrench used.

Ron

[schmidjo]

Sorry for re-hashing this. I am not trying to be ass. BUT THIS is a safety issue as noted in in the posts in this thread. _Wheels coming off trailers would mostly stop if lug-nuts were lubricated_ (and then accurately torqued of course) . and yes do continue to check them.

[Iowa Dave]

Hi Ron
I’m running 95 ft lbs. that’s what Reace recommended to me. I start at 35, then 65 then 95 in the star pattern.
my impact Socket just fits nicely inside the access holes in the wheel when I run the nuts down. I use the low torques side of the 18 volt Milwaukee. I get a nice lineup on the nut taper aligns the wheel that way. The light setting on the Milwaukee is slow rotation and clicks a couple times when the nut seats. That’s about 30 lbs. I go from there with the 1/2 inch drive Proto 30 to 150 ft lbs. torque wrench.
Iowa Dave