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Old 07-25-2019, 12:47 AM   #21
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Read my old thread.

http://www.escapeforum.org/forums/f8...age-11059.html
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Old 07-25-2019, 05:42 PM   #22
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We graduated from a 7.5ft truck camper to the 17B so we already travel light.
Our longest continuous off-grid stay was 11 days, we ran out of water.
We had enough propane and planned the food for 14 days but without water we had to bail early.
If we were hooked up we would probably run out of propane first.
We bought our 17B used and the original owner put a lot of options that we
Would not have ordered but have come to appreciate, alot.
A/C, extra windows, thermal foam, tank heaters, storage box, solar, etc.
Really it has only been the tank heaters that we have never used or tried out.
However, as my wife says, a Man ordered this, because it did not come with the stainless sink and stove
And stove hood and stove cover. We took it back to Escape and had all the stainless installed, easy to keep clean now.
Full-time you probably need more storage. There is lots of storage under the seats.
I love the storage box on the front tongue of the trailer between the trailer and the propane tanks,
it holds an amazing amount of stuff and thus frees up some inside storage room.
I would order the storage box on our next trailer in a heartbeat.
LED light on the drivers side so that you can see the other side of the trailer when it is dark.
And as others have mentioned external 12V plugs on either side of the trailer, mostly to plug in 12 fans and mp3 players.
We have had to sit on the back side of the trailer to get out of the sun many times.
We once considered installing a canopy on the back side as well but we thought that was just getting silly.
I installed a 12 volt socket and dual USB port just under the lip of the counter on the left, closest to the 4 seater table.
For us it is the bed and that is the natural place to plug in an iphone and when needed a small fan.
Our two-seater dinette area in the front has an L shaped bench. There is no closet to the right as you come in the door. There is a lot of storage under the bench.
That makes for a large comfortable entry into the bed when sleeping at that end of the trailer and somewhere to sit just inside the door.
I guess if I was using that for a bed all of the time I would get a 12v socket installed on the shelf above the front window so that I could plug
A phone or fan into at that end of the trailer.
I would get the plates that go on the 4 stabilizer jack feet. They spread the weight so that the feet donít dig into whatever you are parked on.

I would examine the tow vehicle as well for storage space as I feel that storage is the most important for full timing.
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Old 07-25-2019, 06:52 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jxoco View Post
We graduated from a 7.5ft truck camper to the 17B so we already travel light.
Our longest continuous off-grid stay was 11 days, we ran out of water.
We had enough propane and planned the food for 14 days but without water we had to bail early.
If we were hooked up we would probably run out of propane first.
We bought our 17B used and the original owner put a lot of options that we
Would not have ordered but have come to appreciate, alot.
A/C, extra windows, thermal foam, tank heaters, storage box, solar, etc.
Really it has only been the tank heaters that we have never used or tried out.
However, as my wife says, a Man ordered this, because it did not come with the stainless sink and stove
And stove hood and stove cover. We took it back to Escape and had all the stainless installed, easy to keep clean now.
Full-time you probably need more storage. There is lots of storage under the seats.
I love the storage box on the front tongue of the trailer between the trailer and the propane tanks,
it holds an amazing amount of stuff and thus frees up some inside storage room.
I would order the storage box on our next trailer in a heartbeat.
LED light on the drivers side so that you can see the other side of the trailer when it is dark.
And as others have mentioned external 12V plugs on either side of the trailer, mostly to plug in 12 fans and mp3 players.
We have had to sit on the back side of the trailer to get out of the sun many times.
We once considered installing a canopy on the back side as well but we thought that was just getting silly.
I installed a 12 volt socket and dual USB port just under the lip of the counter on the left, closest to the 4 seater table.
For us it is the bed and that is the natural place to plug in an iphone and when needed a small fan.
Our two-seater dinette area in the front has an L shaped bench. There is no closet to the right as you come in the door. There is a lot of storage under the bench.
That makes for a large comfortable entry into the bed when sleeping at that end of the trailer and somewhere to sit just inside the door.
I guess if I was using that for a bed all of the time I would get a 12v socket installed on the shelf above the front window so that I could plug
A phone or fan into at that end of the trailer.
I would get the plates that go on the 4 stabilizer jack feet. They spread the weight so that the feet donít dig into whatever you are parked on.

I would examine the tow vehicle as well for storage space as I feel that storage is the most important for full timing.
John I remember pics of that L shaped dinette & always admired it. I would miss the wardrobe area though.

I went back to eti after osoyoos to have the shelves put in the wardrobe. My Jerry rigged storage just wasnít working as well as I would have liked. Now love the shelves & have lots of below space for shoes. My trailer is also named Pearl.
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Old 07-26-2019, 09:51 AM   #24
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We don't full time in our 17b but I think it would be great for 1 person. Our problem with the size is because we have 2 big people trying to do the same thing at once. We're getting better at taking turns. I love the ETI mattress. We have the 2 person permanent bed with the outside hatch access. That option gives a lot of storage that's pretty easy to access. We got the weight distribution hitch from ETI pro series. I don't know anything about towing but I think it's required for us. It's easy to use once you've done it a couple of times and ETI was great to get it all set up and calibrated and trained us how to use it. It makes a big difference to keep our SUV level and we adjust it if we have bikes on the back or full tanks. When we have to tow on those busy US interstates with huge trucks flying past I'm really glad we have it.
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Old 07-26-2019, 11:26 AM   #25
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Quote:
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For the rear, we have the U-dinette in our 21 after having the standard in the 17. If I were to do it again I would do as several here have done and keep the standard then put in an 18-22" board across the back to effect that U-shape. It gives one more flexibility to have the dimensions work for them vs. one size fits all.
I passed this suggestion along to a friend who has the original configuration in her 17B and is so excited by the possibilities!
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Old 07-26-2019, 11:39 AM   #26
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Something I forgot to mention and is an unlisted option is the topic of outside lights. Standard equipment is outside front door and driver's side. The front door is switched, yet the driver's side is not. We added a light over the front box and on the rear of the trailer and have switches inside for all. Height of the lights can be specified.
Adding this to the build sheet for a tally of costs, thanks!
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Old 07-26-2019, 11:43 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by Doug2000 View Post
Depending on cost and because this will be my full time home, I'll likely want everything stored behind cabinets. Great idea for those hauling goods in and out often!
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Old 07-26-2019, 11:55 AM   #28
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Added a centre stack of 4 drawers with a shoe bin underneath and left a very short (maybe 4") hanging rod on either side so as to allow for hanging the odd thing. (Otherwise, coats go on hooks on the entrance side of the wardrobe, by the door.) My wife loves the drawers, which provide much more flexibility/utility than just hanging stuff in the stock wardrobe. Might want to ask Escape about this option if this appeals to you.
I love your idea, Lawrence, because I'm honestly not sure how I want to use the wardrobe space. I certainly don't need to spend money for shelves I may not need, and they're not adjustable.
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Old 07-26-2019, 12:08 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by jxoco View Post
LED light on the drivers side so that you can see the other side of the trailer when it is dark. And as others have mentioned external 12V plugs on either side of the trailer, mostly to plug in 12 fans and mp3 players....I installed a 12 volt socket and dual USB port just under the lip of the counter on the left, closest to the 4 seater table. For us it is the bed and that is the natural place to plug in an iphone and when needed a small fan.....I guess if I was using that for a bed all of the time I would get a 12v socket installed on the shelf above the front window so that I could plug a phone or fan into at that end of the trailer.
I particularly appreciate these suggestions, John, as they are well considered, and I hadn't already thought of them. Thanks so much!
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Old 07-26-2019, 12:20 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bcescapist View Post
We got the weight distribution hitch from ETI pro series. I don't know anything about towing but I think it's required for us. It's easy to use once you've done it a couple of times and ETI was great to get it all set up and calibrated and trained us how to use it. It makes a big difference to keep our SUV level and we adjust it if we have bikes on the back or full tanks. When we have to tow on those busy US interstates with huge trucks flying past I'm really glad we have it.
Yes, the 17B is certainly the perfect size for my current situation, and I'm looking forward to getting out there in it! I'm thinking that I'll need the WDH, too, but I've decided to let ETI and the RV Driving School help with that decision in October. They've been at this much longer than I. Thanks for your input!
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Old 07-26-2019, 12:55 PM   #31
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Forgot to mention that we found the foam cushions too thin. After a few nights, my shoulders were hurting as I sleep on my side. We added 2 inches of foam under all of the cushions. Specifically, the foam slab for the single dinette area was cut to fit the curve and then cut in half lengthways. Covered in material with zippers added so that the foam can be removed. The two halves are sewn together so that they hinge.
If we need to get to the under-seat storage we remove the stock cushions and the extra foam cushion we added is 'folded' and placed somewhere out of the way. It can actually be stood up on the seat behind the bathroom if you are just getting into the storage under the seat beside the wardrobe.
The slab under the 4 seater dinette folds in three like a map and can stand up by the bathroom door. (Our 4 seater is always a bed.)

And the cupboard door above the fridge has a mirror rather than a wood center.
That cupboard was for a microwave and so has an A/C socket in the back of it.
The perfect place for an electric hairdryer. When you are plugged into power, a mirror and a hairdryer all in one place.
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Old 07-26-2019, 01:14 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by jxoco View Post
Forgot to mention that we found the foam cushions too thin. After a few nights, my shoulders were hurting as I sleep on my side. We added 2 inches of foam under all of the cushions. Specifically, the foam slab for the single dinette area was cut to fit the curve and then cut in half lengthways. Covered in material with zippers added so that the foam can be removed. The two halves are sewn together so that they hinge.
If we need to get to the under-seat storage we remove the stock cushions and the extra foam cushion we added is 'folded' and placed somewhere out of the way. It can actually be stood up on the seat behind the bathroom if you are just getting into the storage under the seat beside the wardrobe.
The slab under the 4 seater dinette folds in three like a map and can stand up by the bathroom door. (Our 4 seater is always a bed.)

John, I've read enough from others to know that I will surely have to add cushioning - as though my body didn't provide enough!

I think I'll ask ETI to provide external access below the 2-person dinette, as I plan to make that area a permanent bed with cabinets beneath. Thoughts of all the making and unmaking my bed that I'd otherwise have to do makes me weary.

Thanks for your thoughts... and happy travels!
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Old 07-26-2019, 04:50 PM   #33
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Ava:

Sorry to be so late in adding our comments. You asked for the experience of long-time 17B owners--we bought ours (new) in 2015. Since we got it, we have spent 177 nights in it and towed it 17,000 miles. Our TV is a 2008 Toyota 4Runner (V6). We love it!

We are long-time backpackers and tent campers, so our needs are simple and we find the 17B extremely comfortable! We normally stay in BLM, USFS or NPS or state park campgrounds and rarely have hook-ups. Our trips typically range from one to three weeks. The type of camping that we do obviously impacts our option preferences.

Our favorite options are:
1. front storage box
2. solar panel
3. dual 6V batteries
4. dual pane windows & extra insulation
5. full-length mirror on bathroom door

The front storage box holds everything that we use for hitching and leveling the trailer. The combination of the 6V batteries and solar panel has resulted in our being able to "boondock" without having to worry about needing hook-ups or a generator. LED lights certainly help in this respect, but I believe they are now standard. The windows and insulation help to keep the trailer cool in the summer and warmer in the spring/fall. We did not get air conditioning and have rarely been in situations where we would have used it if we'd had it. Living near the mountains enables us to chose higher elevation places to go in the summer months.

We normally leave the rear dinette made up as a bed and use the small front dinette for eating and reading/lounging. We find the dinette cushions very comfortable for sleeping (perhaps due to years of sleeping on the ground. My wife frequently uses the counter extension (standard) for food preparation and extra counter space. Having the front box, we did not add additional outside access to storage areas. We find available storage (with the front box) to be more than adequate for our needs.

We did not have Escape reinforce any walls as we do not have a t.v. (or plan to get one). We did add two Captain's lights over the rear dinette (for reading in bed). We did not add any additional exterior lighting.

We don't use (or feel the need for) a WDH. This may be due somewhat to the fact that the loaded weight of the 17B is well within the tow limit (5,000 lb) of our 4Runner. I drive fairly conservatively, (50--60 mph), and have never experienced any sway.

If asked what we would do differently if we had it to do over again. I can confidently say very little. I'd probably get the additional high-mounted tail-lights and would probably get an external 12V outlet to facilitate the use of a 12V compressor for adding air to the tires. I'm not sure I'd get the detachable power cord, not having air conditioning or a microwave, we do not need the 30 amp cord and use a 30 to 15 adapter and regular extension cord when we do plug into 110V (generally only to precool the fridge before trips). Other than this, the standard 17B (with the options previously discussed) has worked extremely well for us.

As you're planning to full-time, your needs and preferences will naturally be different. I hope some of our thoughts may be of help. Good luck!

Dave
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Old 07-27-2019, 11:48 AM   #34
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Thanks, Dave! I have pretty much everything covered now but added the full-length mirror you suggested, because it's something I really do want that was not on my list. Amazing how one can pour over the options and still find one that's been left out!

Happy travels!
Ava
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Old 07-28-2019, 11:41 AM   #35
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Thumbs down Happy with these decisions

Hi Ava,
We have logged a few month long trips in our new 2019 17B and are glad we selected these optional items:
- Weight distribution hitch...we tow with a Nissan Pathfinder. Very comfortable on the highway and appreciate the load leveling we get with the WDH.
- Optional window in the kitchen. It is the perfect draft window for pulling air through the interior and out the MaxxFan. Also a bonus for outside views and light.
- Outside hatch for under the bed storage. A feature we use everyday. Crawling around on the floor to access under the bed storage from the inside is a planned event
- Captain Lights at the head & foot of the bed. These were unintended but gave us the option of orienting our head of bed at either end. Who can't use more focus LEDs at the ETI price?
- Front Box...great for tongue weight and filthy crap. Also a great rock shield.
- Insulated walls. Seems to keep the interior cool & comfortable on warm days. We bought it for cooler weather, so this was a pleasant surprise.
- High mounted tail lights. As others have mentioned on the forum, ...very useful when carrying a bike rack.
- Larger 4.3 cubic foot fridge. You sacrifice a few inches of hall space but gain premium time away from the grocery store.

Kathleen tells me she has already replied to your post, so I guess you get to do a cross-post comparison & test the reliability of a Bcescapist posting!

Enjoy you new 17,
Scott
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Old 07-28-2019, 08:17 PM   #36
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Ava, I have been camping and haven’t had a chance to reply til now. Ihave a 17A but will share a few things that are common to both A and B that might help.

I love the detachable cord, high tail lights, and extra insulation (I have walls but not underneath). I have the high lift option.

A caution about no table: there is very little counter space for food prep and I use my table for that all the time. The only real counter space is the flip up table which is small. I have the Springfield pedestal with the eti provided slider and it’s great. It slides out of the way so that even with the little flip table it is easy to acces the passenger side of the rear dinette.

I recommend the small cuisinart tabletop oven if you can find one. It’s a small elec frypan type appliance but you can also choose to have heat coming from the top. I have used for baking. You need external ac power for this.

I have no rooftop solar but do have a Renogy “suitcase” 100 watt that is really lightweight. Someone else can probably advise you on how to connect to your existing monitor.

I had two dinettes so instead of the front large permanent bed I had them cut the table in two pieces. My bed is across the front and I believe is the same dimensions as the single in the 17B. I’ve slept there 150 nights and had a similar setup in my aframe for 11 yrs before that. It’s fine for me on width and length.

Not sure how you are anticipating built in underbed storage. Your bathroom will come to the edge of the bed on the driver’s side and the wardrobe will come to the edge on the passenger side. The center is not all that wide and getting stuff under the bed on far right or left will be problematic especially with doors. I have my porta potty and shoe bin under the center part of my bed...and a little curtain across the front of it which I think makes it easy access and looks fine. I would sure consider hatches on one or both front sides. I also have a hatch on passenger side rear which is useful for chairs etc, and i keep some bins in there that I can access from inside with paper products, extra towels etc.

The 8 provided lights provide plenty of light but I did get capt lights in all 4 corners mainly bc they are hard to add later unless you are electrically savvy. I will say i mainly use the ones in the front corners by my bed.

I really like the E2 weight distribution hitch. If you plan to decide later you might check with eti, there is a charge for changes in build sheet after a certain point but not sure if it includes hitches.

I just got a CURT cargo basket for the back and I LOVE it. Moved out of the car are a roll up table (useful for outdoor cooking even near the outside outlet) a set of small adjustable leg Coleman tables, my camp rocker (awesome) a portable campfire and a small portable grill. I carry a small extra propane tank but if you want to grill frequently you could consider the extension hose eti offers that connects to the front gas tanks.

The front storage box is a must.

Some suggestions on bed makeup. I altered a twin fitted sheet to fit the front bed on which i have a fancy inflatable mattress. I use a regular sheet sometimes on top in warm weather. For blanket i use an llbean square sleeping bag in a duvet cover. It’s very wide as an over blanket and i can take the duvet cover off to wash it much easier than washing a sleeping bag. I just fold it in half to make the bed, and have a thin quilt i made as a bedspread.

I reinforced the entry wall on the refrig side because i wanted another handhold on the inside.
If you are not tall you might ask (as i did) eti to hold off on installation of the outside handhold til you get there. Its usual position is quite high imo.

I highly recommend the umbra hooks which you provide and eti will install for a 25 $ charge for up to three. I have the small cubby with three hooks high on the entry to the right, four on the backside of the refrig and four on what would be the bed side of your bathroom.

Re the wardrobe cabinet, you might consider elfa basket system. I believe several folks have installed them in that wardrobe...i have them in the tall cabinet next to the stove and it holds a ton of stuff. Search the forum for elfa. It’s available in various widths and heights from the container store, and there are three sizes of baskets. I use the smallest and next smallest.

I got an ac plug above the stove because the under flip table one is awkward. Someone above mentioned it so maybe it comes with solar

I got custom fabric and Formica and floor because I wanted it how I liked, and I thought the ETI choices were too dark. Ymmv.

If you have any questions or want pics let me know.

You can charge all your stuff off batteries using USB ports when boondocking with solar, so think about where you want those.

I know you’ll love yours as much as I love mine!!
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Old 07-28-2019, 08:53 PM   #37
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I recommend the small cuisinart tabletop oven if you can find one. Itís a small elec frypan type appliance but you can also choose to have heat coming from the top. I have used for baking. You need external ac power for this.
I have the Cuisinart TOB-260N1 Chef's Convection Toaster Oven which I found by doing a search for "best toaster oven" and it is great. Is this the one you are referring to?

https://www.amazon.com/Cuisinart-TOB.../dp/B01M0AWSJX
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Old 07-28-2019, 09:57 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bcescapist View Post
Hi Ava,
We have logged a few month long trips in our new 2019 17B and are glad we selected these optional items:
- Weight distribution hitch...we tow with a Nissan Pathfinder. Very comfortable on the highway and appreciate the load leveling we get with the WDH.
- Optional window in the kitchen. It is the perfect draft window for pulling air through the interior and out the MaxxFan. Also a bonus for outside views and light.
- Outside hatch for under the bed storage. A feature we use everyday. Crawling around on the floor to access under the bed storage from the inside is a planned event
- Captain Lights at the head & foot of the bed. These were unintended but gave us the option of orienting our head of bed at either end. Who can't use more focus LEDs at the ETI price?
- Front Box...great for tongue weight and filthy crap. Also a great rock shield.
- Insulated walls. Seems to keep the interior cool & comfortable on warm days. We bought it for cooler weather, so this was a pleasant surprise.
- High mounted tail lights. As others have mentioned on the forum, ...very useful when carrying a bike rack.
- Larger 4.3 cubic foot fridge. You sacrifice a few inches of hall space but gain premium time away from the grocery store.

Kathleen tells me she has already replied to your post, so I guess you get to do a cross-post comparison & test the reliability of a Bcescapist posting!

Enjoy you new 17,
Scott
Thanks for taking the time to respond, Scott! Every post brings me closer to knowing what needs to be included in the final build sheet!
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Old 07-28-2019, 10:23 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by h2owmn View Post
Ava, I have been camping and havenít had a chance to reply til now. Ihave a 17A but will share a few things that are common to both A and B that might help.

I love the detachable cord, high tail lights, and extra insulation (I have walls but not underneath). I have the high lift option.

A caution about no table: there is very little counter space for food prep and I use my table for that all the time. The only real counter space is the flip up table which is small. I have the Springfield pedestal with the eti provided slider and itís great. It slides out of the way so that even with the little flip table it is easy to acces the passenger side of the rear dinette.

I recommend the small cuisinart tabletop oven if you can find one. Itís a small elec frypan type appliance but you can also choose to have heat coming from the top. I have used for baking. You need external ac power for this.

I have no rooftop solar but do have a Renogy ďsuitcaseĒ 100 watt that is really lightweight. Someone else can probably advise you on how to connect to your existing monitor.

I had two dinettes so instead of the front large permanent bed I had them cut the table in two pieces. My bed is across the front and I believe is the same dimensions as the single in the 17B. Iíve slept there 150 nights and had a similar setup in my aframe for 11 yrs before that. Itís fine for me on width and length.

Not sure how you are anticipating built in underbed storage. Your bathroom will come to the edge of the bed on the driverís side and the wardrobe will come to the edge on the passenger side. The center is not all that wide and getting stuff under the bed on far right or left will be problematic especially with doors. I have my porta potty and shoe bin under the center part of my bed...and a little curtain across the front of it which I think makes it easy access and looks fine. I would sure consider hatches on one or both front sides. I also have a hatch on passenger side rear which is useful for chairs etc, and i keep some bins in there that I can access from inside with paper products, extra towels etc.

The 8 provided lights provide plenty of light but I did get capt lights in all 4 corners mainly bc they are hard to add later unless you are electrically savvy. I will say i mainly use the ones in the front corners by my bed.

I really like the E2 weight distribution hitch. If you plan to decide later you might check with eti, there is a charge for changes in build sheet after a certain point but not sure if it includes hitches.

I just got a CURT cargo basket for the back and I LOVE it. Moved out of the car are a roll up table (useful for outdoor cooking even near the outside outlet) a set of small adjustable leg Coleman tables, my camp rocker (awesome) a portable campfire and a small portable grill. I carry a small extra propane tank but if you want to grill frequently you could consider the extension hose eti offers that connects to the front gas tanks.

The front storage box is a must.

Some suggestions on bed makeup. I altered a twin fitted sheet to fit the front bed on which i have a fancy inflatable mattress. I use a regular sheet sometimes on top in warm weather. For blanket i use an llbean square sleeping bag in a duvet cover. Itís very wide as an over blanket and i can take the duvet cover off to wash it much easier than washing a sleeping bag. I just fold it in half to make the bed, and have a thin quilt i made as a bedspread.

I reinforced the entry wall on the refrig side because i wanted another handhold on the inside.
If you are not tall you might ask (as i did) eti to hold off on installation of the outside handhold til you get there. Its usual position is quite high imo.

I highly recommend the umbra hooks which you provide and eti will install for a 25 $ charge for up to three. I have the small cubby with three hooks high on the entry to the right, four on the backside of the refrig and four on what would be the bed side of your bathroom.

Re the wardrobe cabinet, you might consider elfa basket system. I believe several folks have installed them in that wardrobe...i have them in the tall cabinet next to the stove and it holds a ton of stuff. Search the forum for elfa. Itís available in various widths and heights from the container store, and there are three sizes of baskets. I use the smallest and next smallest.

I got an ac plug above the stove because the under flip table one is awkward. Someone above mentioned it so maybe it comes with solar

I got custom fabric and Formica and floor because I wanted it how I liked, and I thought the ETI choices were too dark. Ymmv.

If you have any questions or want pics let me know.

You can charge all your stuff off batteries using USB ports when boondocking with solar, so think about where you want those.

I know youíll love yours as much as I love mine!!
WOW! Thanks for all of the details provided!

Most of the items you mentioned are those lots of folks are seeing as essential, and they're now on my build sheet. I've decided not to insulate all of my walls, as doing so would add weight that I can ill afford. I much prefer the elfa system to built-in shelves and will definitely ask that the grab bar be lowered, thanks. As to placement of plugs - this is my last item, and I'm finding concentration hard tonight (my last night at the beach with family). Like Scarlett O'Hara, I'm leaving that to do tomorrow between flights.

I asked about exterior storage in the front beneath the 2-person dinette but obviously need to ask again, because others got a "yes" on this. (I may not have made myself clear to my rep.)

Sounds like you're getting the ultimate enjoyment out of your 17A. Happy for you and excited about doing the same come October!

Ava
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Old 07-29-2019, 11:46 AM   #40
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Trailer: 2018 Escape 17A double dinette
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I didn’t note your inverter so my caveat about appliances does not apply.

As mentioned recently in another item, you could get an amber lens for the outside the door light at no charge, at least last

The tabletop oven i have is much smaller and opens kind of like a waffle iron. Comes w rack, cupcake pan (4), and a pan insert, approx 8x8. https://www.cuisinart.com/discontinu...nces/CBO-1000/ I have heard that others have found on eBay.
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