Escape 19 going to the Last Best Place

[homebrewer]

Well, here it goes - my first post. But not my first camper. Got my deposit down but haven't nailed down options yet. We've had a Coleman popup, Casita, and now an Aliner - lots of modifications to each, so I think I know what I want now. However, I have one option that I'd like to get some discussion about.
I've asked ETI to leave out the Dometic furnace and don't cut the hatch/hole for it - not a standard option, My plan is to put in a Dickenson P9000 or P12000 furnace. I saw a video by Slim Potatohead where he installed the P9000 in his small fiberglass trailer (not Escape, but very similar) and I would install it in the same location he used. I don't want the Dometic because of the noise, electrical load, on/off operation, and taking up a cabinet spot. I don't know if the Dickenson is more energy efficient or not, but it is lower BTU output (4500 to 5500 BTU for the P12000) and runs continuously (can be turned up/down in heat output), so the LP use could be similar. The electrical load is only 2 watts for a very quiet computer style fan. Not many options for relocating the heater, but I think Slim picked a reasonable spot - P/S corner at the foot of the bed (search for his video for the details). Any concerns with this plan?
Also wondering about the option for the 3" lift of the dinette area. Why is this even an option? Does the area under this raised floor get insulated? Is this lift needed to see out of the windows while seated? Does is help keep dirt from the seating area? Does it end up with any unforeseen problems (or benefits?)
I've watched a ton of videos about all the other options, so I think I know what I want otherwise. I'm planning to visit the showroom ASAP (we live in Montana) and I'm looking forward to the whole process of ordering. There was a similar owners group forum for the Casita, and it was incredibly helpful - looks like this forum will be also.

[brroberts]

Not really sure where I would put a Newport in an E19. I can’t think of a good spot. Honestly, that’s not a change I would personally make, but I have had furnace issues.

The 3” raise is just that, a 3” higher seating position for visibility. There is no additional insulation. I’m glad to have it to see out the windows. It’s not essential, but I’d do it again vs the flat floor. I wondered about the 3” step, but I’ve had no concern with it.

[Selkirk]

Slim Potatohead is one of my favorite YouTubers. His adventures serve as an inspiration for me....once I'm in a position to travel more extensively in the future.

I think that installing a Dickinson propane heater in an Escape will be more of a challenge than a Trillium/Outback. Slim was able to mount it in a corner of the bedroom area and route the flue straight up to the ceiling. The overhead cabinets would make the same location more difficult in the E19. Would there be sufficient minimum clearance between the heater and underside of the cabinets? Would the bigger P12000 would be a necessity given the larger trailer size?

Have you given consideration to other heater options? Maybe a Truma or Alde system?

[Ron in BC]

I've had a lot of experience with Dickinson heaters in boats. The original one I ended up nicknaming "the fire breathing dragon". It would run away and belch out carbon particles. However they did solve that problem and I had many years of quiet solid heat inside the boat with snow on the decks.

I thought seriously about installing one in my 19 but just couldn't see a feasible way of doing it. On my 21C I thought seriously again about installing a Dickinson Alaska. But I'd have to give up the whole drawer stack to do it.

If I cold weather camped a lot I'd probably make that sacrifice but I don't. Couldn't take the boat south in winter to get to the warmth but I can take the trailer.

So, love the heater but it does require a big compromise.

There's an option to getting the raised floor. On our 19 I raised the seats instead. I much prefer a flat floor.

Raising the bench seats works for normal height folks. If someone was really short it might not work so well. Anyway, it's an easy and reversible mod.

Ron

[Sean Murry]

Have you looked at Propex heaters? I don't have any personal experience with them but they do look very interesting to me. People who do have them seem to really like them. Might be easier to install in the Escape.

[homebrewer]

I had not heard of Truma, Alde, or Propex so I checked them out on the web. Truma appears to be both a water and air heater - more than what I'm going for. The Alde is a "boiler" that circulates hot water to radiators on the inside of the trailer - WAY more than what I'm going for. Propex appears to require more cabinet and duct work than I'd like. All from Europe - where they do things better but more expensive. I know that Slim Potatohead does lots of research himself, and has of help from viewers, too, so I'm putting a lot of faith in his recommendation. I think everyone (including me) just accepts the Dometic or Suburban heaters as standard - it's not an option on an Escape. But if you start with a clean slate, which I'm trying to do, look at the pluses and minuses of each - Dometic and Dickenson. Dickenson is way quieter and much lower elect. use. Although it's lower BTU output, the Dickenson runs continuously (no thermostat) so it may be equal to the on/off operation of the Dometic; you're still heating the same CF to the same temperature (hopefully). I'll have to visit the showroom to evaluate the location I'm thinking about - back corner of either side, just like in the video. I don't think there's any better location. I actually like the appearance of the Dickenson - it actually looks attractive on the back wall. I don't think there's any problem safety-wise or efficiency-wise with the location. Plus I get an extra cabinet, and no big hatch on the side, that gets very hot to the touch (that's more of a safety hazard than the cap on the roof for the Dickenson.)
I haven't gotten acceptance from ETI to delete the dometic and get the credit - they may have problems with codes or something, so we'll see where that goes.

[homebrewer]

I knew this forum would be great! Many of my ideas for modifications are somewhat sketchy, so having to defend them to a collection of owners with varied experiences is extremely valuable - especially when I get saved from my own stupidity! But of course, this particular modification is pure genius.

[Sean Murry]

One cool thing about the Dickinson is the open flame. Looks like you have a mini fireplace in your RV. I saw one in a Scout Truck Camper and it looked really cool. Scout has them as an option (or maybe standard, I can't remember). I will be interested to see where you ultimately install this in the Escape 19. I can't visualize a place where it would work, but you are probably more creative than I am.

[Rossue]

I installed a Propex HS2800 vs. the HS2000 in a van as in June 2021 the 2000 was back ordered and the 2800 was only $100 more. BTU's are 9500 vs. 6500.

The unit is almost identical in size to my Atwood heater in the Escape and if it ever goes south will probably use the Propex. It was a super easy install and the intake & exhaust tubes could easily go through the floor as they did in the van. It can be mounted flat or on it's side.

[Sean Murry]

I understand the Propex is also quite quiet as well.

[Rossue]

Very quiet.

[rubicon327]

Originally Posted by homebrewer

Although it's lower BTU output, the Dickenson runs continuously (no thermostat) so it may be equal to the on/off operation of the Dometic; you're still heating the same CF to the same temperature (hopefully). I'll have to visit the showroom to evaluate the location I'm thinking about - back corner of either side, just like in the video. I don't think there's any better location.

I appreciate your out-of-the-box thinking. Some of my mods are along these lines. My major concern with the Dickinson is the low BTU output. The Escape furnaces are 9,120 BTUH output while the largest Dickinson Newport P12000 is only 5,500 BTUH. In really cold weather the Escape furnaces run a lot. These trailers are not insulated like a Bigfoot. The Dickinson will be running non-stop to try to keep up with the heat loss. There is not a powerful fan on them to distribute the heat very well either. My bet is the rear bed area will be comfortable but the front of the trailer won't be very warm at all. Also remember with your mounting location you have the added challenge of taking the exhaust flue up through a cabinet before exiting the roof. If you move ahead I'd like to see pictures and results of your creative endeavor.

[HABBERDABBER]

Originally Posted by Ron in BC

There's an option to getting the raised floor. On our 19 I raised the seats instead. I much prefer a flat floor.

Raising the bench seats works for normal height folks. If someone was really short it might not work so well. Anyway, it's an easy and reversible mod.

Ron

Question. Why did you band the raise-up with what looks to be ply and not fab out of solid wood? Or is that what you did do...band (veneer) it?

[homebrewer]

The Propex looks like a viable option. However it would be taking up storage area somewhere. The location I’m planning on isn’t used for storage or anything else, so no trade- off there. Also I’m really liking the fireplace concept right over the bed. I’m making a showroom visit this week - a close up exam will really help. I’ve never seen any Escape in person.

[brroberts]

In our 19, we find those corners the perfect lounge area, and would not want to lose the space there.

[Rossue]

Originally Posted by homebrewer

The Propex looks like a viable option. However it would be taking up storage area somewhere. The location I’m planning on isn’t used for storage or anything else, so no trade- off there. Also I’m really liking the fireplace concept right over the bed. I’m making a showroom visit this week - a close up exam will really help. I’ve never seen any Escape in person.

Forgot mention the HS2211 is made to mount externally underneath. Just not sure 6500 BTU is enough for an E19.

[NEWYORKHILLBILLY]

Dickenson P9000 has some power advantages. the two things that turn me off for 19 escape insulation is manual lighting and no thermostat. with just a high and low setting you have trouble getting the right temp even threw the camper. when I go to bed it I set it to 65 and it stays there even if we get down in single digits. I have experienced some with a little buddy heater and found on low it would still cook me out. window open and fan on low for fresh air.
I thought serios about the raised dinette. After a long debate I decided to see how it worked without it. Glad I waited. I don't have any trouble seeing out the windows.

I don't know much about the Propex. looks like it may do the job well

[Sean Murry]

Keep in mind when you delete the standard furnace, that space will open up. You might be able to install the propex unit in that spot, so not giving up any other storage space. We have had our trailer for just over 3 years and we have yet to fill all the storage spaces.
I too would be concerned about the low BTU's of the Dickinson. For us it is more important to have heat at the table when you are eating, reading or playing cards. At night we virtually have no heat on as we like the nights to be cool for sleeping.

Looking at that video posted by Slim Potatoehead, I would be concerned about the low BTU's being enough for the Escape 19. Slim's trailer is smaller and took 2 hours to get to 17 degrees

[Ron in BC]

Originally Posted by rubicon327

My major concern with the Dickinson is the low BTU output.

The Dickinson will be running non-stop to try to keep up with the heat loss.

There is not a powerful fan on them to distribute the heat very well either.

It just sits there with it's cheery little flickering flame and keeps on silently putting out heat. Normally if we were away for several days in the winter the Dickinson would just stay on.

The heat, on our boat with a pilot house, would find it's way there by convection. A friends boat was more convoluted and he ran a flexible duct from near the chimney to a closed off area. A simple silent computer fan moved the heat quite nicely.

The same friend bought one of those cheap Chinese knock offs to other diesel forced air heaters. It works and does the job but it uses power and is noisy. Don't think that he'll actually use it as the Dickinson has done so well for many years.

Ron

[Ron in BC]

Originally Posted by HABBERDABBER

Question. Why did you band the raise-up with what looks to be ply and not fab out of solid wood? Or is that what you did do...band (veneer) it?

Building things there's always lot's of ways to go.

In this case I already had some 3/8" oak on hand so I built the structure out of pine and glued the oak to it. The front and side could have been solid stock oak.

That simple mod changed the feeling of sitting in the dinette and looking out at the world. Got away from the feeling of sitting down in a hole and only seeing the far off mountain tops.

I think that several people did this mod a few years ago but it seems to have fallen off folks radar. Especially since the raised dinette became an option.

Ron