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Old 09-11-2014, 06:11 PM   #21
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Welcome!
One thing has me curious: why do you want a hot water heater if you don't want a bathroom, is it just to do dishes?
Outside shower?
And dishes.
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Old 09-11-2014, 06:31 PM   #22
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And, if you strip away the water heater insulation, it'll keep you warm at night.
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Old 09-11-2014, 07:09 PM   #23
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I have no clue ... When I took possession in Sumas, Dennis said not to worry if it didn't lower my stinger by more than two inches. It doesn't so I don't (much).
I think that's okay for the F-150, but for Pat's Outback the hitch weight will matter.

If you stand on the rear bumper of the F-150 and see how far it goes down, compared to how far the trailer pushes it down, you get an idea of the tongue weight (knowing your own weight).

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We have a 15B with dual (front) batteries and dual LP tanks. Our tongue weight is between 310 and 350 pounds, depending on how much propane we're carrying and whether there's water in the fresh tank. It's a bit heavy, but man does it tow sweetly.
Good info. That would be way too much for the Pat's Outback, but he is considering a 15A which we think will have less tongue weight.
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Old 09-11-2014, 07:27 PM   #24
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If you are considering the front-mounted storage box, what if you bought more trailer body length instead of buying the box?

Escape 17A - base
  • list price: $21,000
  • base/dry weight: 1900 lb + extra battery = about 1960 lb
  • empty/dry tongue weight: 250 lb minus part of battery weight = 250 - about 30 = about 220 lb

Escape 15A - base plus front box
  • list price: $19,500 + $700 = $20,200
  • empty/dry weight: 1600 lb + box + extra battery = 1600 + about 50 + about 60 = about 1710 lb
  • empty/dry tongue weight: 190 lb plus most of box weight plus most of battery weight = 190 + 40 + 50 = 280 lb

What does the box weigh? I used about 50 pounds for my example calculation.

I'm not saying that the 17' is a better choice in general than the 15', just considering the possibility that if you need to add the box for storage space, then adding trailer body length instead - and the longer frame to go with it - might deliver greater functionality (even if you just use the extra space inside for storage) for not much more total weight and around the same tongue weight or even less (cargo will increase the tongue weight in both cases). My guess is that the longer trailer would also be more stable, even with the same tongue weight.

I know I'm sounding like a broken record, but think tongue weight is going to be a significant concern for Pat, given the moderate hitch weight capacity of a Subaru Outback.
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Old 09-11-2014, 07:32 PM   #25
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I read the hitch weight capacity for the Subaru Outback is 90kg or 198lbs.
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Old 09-11-2014, 07:55 PM   #26
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there's a max weight for the storage box.
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Old 09-11-2014, 08:59 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian B-P View Post
If you stand on the rear bumper of the F-150 and see how far it goes down, compared to how far the trailer pushes it down, you get an idea of the tongue weight (knowing your own weight).
A great tip...thank you! My adult grandson is here so I roped him into helping me; a combined 290 pounds lowered it 1.75 inches. I will measure the drop more closely next time I hitch up the trailer.
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Old 09-11-2014, 10:02 PM   #28
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I read the hitch weight capacity for the Subaru Outback is 90kg or 198lbs.
Someone stopped us at Campingworld in Redding CA and asked about our 15. They wanted to pull with an Outback. Whether it is a 15a or 15b I think either is too much for an Outback. Even Karen's A isn't going to have a low enough tongue weight. I would think that Karen's total weight is over what is recommended for the Outback.
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Old 09-11-2014, 10:27 PM   #29
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Subaru makes a great vehicle, both the Outback and the Forester. 99% if these trailers have WAAAy to much tongue weight for either model. I trust Carol H., on FiberglassRV. She's a loooong time Subaru owner and has many years of experince towing a 16' Scamp that she's really spent time "lightning." Read about it. Not the best brand of vehicle to tow an all molded towable... unless it's one of the "Compact(s)."
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Old 09-11-2014, 10:37 PM   #30
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Welcome!
One thing has me curious: why do you want a hot water heater if you don't want a bathroom, is it just to do dishes?
That's a good question, Hillary, perhaps it's force of habit, 3 of my previous RV's had one. Now that you bring it up, though, I really don't need one. Do the dishes? Heat the needed water on the stove. Eliminate the W/H and simplify the winterizing process. I think you just talked me out of the W/H
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Old 09-11-2014, 10:42 PM   #31
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Welcome!
One thing has me curious: why do you want a hot water heater if you don't want a bathroom, is it just to do dishes?
I like to wash my face with hot water.... bathroom or not. Pouring water out of a pan on the washcloth doesn't cut it anymore. Maybe it's my age... besides... I can afford a hot water heater. YMMV
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Old 09-11-2014, 11:55 PM   #32
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Hot water is one of the best things about the trailer. Heating water can get really old really fast.
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Old 09-11-2014, 11:56 PM   #33
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We have a 15A and find that there is a lot of storage even without the front storage box. We have the double propane tanks and the two 6 volt batteries but with careful pack and storing some extra water in the back, we have had no trouble with tongue weight. Heading out to Yellowstone in a week .
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Old 09-12-2014, 12:20 AM   #34
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Originally Posted by OneOleMan View Post
That's a good question, Hillary, perhaps it's force of habit, 3 of my previous RV's had one. Now that you bring it up, though, I really don't need one. Do the dishes? Heat the needed water on the stove. Eliminate the W/H and simplify the winterizing process. I think you just talked me out of the W/H
We have the hot water tank and exterior shower on our 15A.
We find it really nice to have the HW tank. As Donna mentioned it is really nice to be able to turn on the tap to get hot water, or warm water with cold mixed, to wash your face or hands, get instant hot water for doing the dishes, using the outside shower to wash your hair and even take a shower. You get the sink, you may as well have hot water for it.
We are really glad we got the tank.
But you could do without it as we did that for many years tent camping.
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Old 09-12-2014, 12:57 AM   #35
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We have the inside shower and outside shower. It's the outside shower that gets used most. I take the all-weather mat out of the rear foot well in the RAV to stand on. Pic: Not me, my buddy showers at the Skagit River.
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Old 09-12-2014, 08:29 AM   #36
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We really like having the hot water tank. BUT, if we did not have it, we would survive just fine.

With us boondocking most of the time, we often have the water heater off most of the time anyway to make our propane last longer, turning it on in the morning until breakfast is done, then again for an hour or so, just before supper.

We have the outside shower, but have never used it ourselves, as we are usually looking to save water, we usually just sponge bath. I have had a shower a few times when I have gotten quite dirty and worked up a good sweat. Our outside shower, being on the drives side, is usually alongside trees, or something.
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Old 09-12-2014, 11:20 AM   #37
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Getting a water heater was our first step on the road to a fiberglass trailer ... I don't think Norma is going back...
We were camped at Harris Beach in the picture below when we toured a 16' Casita also in the loop. Our water heater is on the table.

Pat,
You might rethink the awning too. The one ETI uses is very robust & provides a nice front porch in wet NW weather.
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Old 09-12-2014, 11:38 AM   #38
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Quote:
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Getting a water heater was our first step on the road to a fiberglass trailer ... I don't think Norma is going back...
We were camped at Harris Beach in the picture below when we toured a 16' Casita also in the loop. Our water heater is on the table.

Pat,
You might rethink the awning too. The one ETI uses is very robust & provides a nice front porch in wet NW weather.
Paul, I have re-thought the awning and decided to get one. With the truck camper the awning didn't provide any "porch" protection.
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Old 09-12-2014, 11:55 AM   #39
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I'm with Paul: hot water [and the bathroom] is a significant difference between trailer camping and tent camping. We bought our Escape so we could enjoy the outdoors more. Staying dry, being warm and sleeping comfortably makes our outdoor time a much more enjoyable experience, IMHO. After a wet, rainy hike, with ice cold fingers,returning to the Escape and immersing our fingers in warm water feels like heaven. And Karen would never go back either.

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Old 09-12-2014, 05:06 PM   #40
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For me a toilet is key and since we have a bathroom we can use to shower, a hot water heater is nice. Personally I wouldn't buy a trailer without either, but people's camping styles are very different. I only asked about the hot water heater because I was curious why someone would want one but not want to be able to use it to shower (aka have a bathroom or outside shower), since dishes can be done with cold water (again, that would not be *my* preference).
I love my 17B and 3 dogs and two humans fit in it just fine!
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