Possible new buyer

[kavm]

My wife and I are uninitiated to towing and trailers. We are very much into outdoors and have been tent camping for a long time - and planning a move up to a trailer.

Our intended use is driving to the national parks and national forests (mostly Western US, Canadian rockies, Alaska) - not really boondocking (possibility) but heavier usage of non-commercial national park or national forest service campgrounds with limited or hookups.

Decisions:

• Started by thinking of 17 ft but now thinking of Escape 19 - with a slim possibility of considering 21. Could use ideas. Our situation: No dog, no children, coming from tent camping - so don't travel with the kitchen sink.
• Being completely uneducated in the trailers and towing, quite unclear about the decisions on the options that seem to be part of the buying process. And, we barely understand what they mean..
• Will be buying a tow vehicle. Original thought was coming Ford Bronco but that might be too light for Escape 19. So, thinking F150 but not firm on that. Could use indicators on that.

Heard that the lead times can be as long as a year, so might proceed to buying soon - provided we can make a head or tail of the options we need to decide on

[davidmurphy02]

Sounds like an Escape would be ideal for the kind of camping you like - we also frequent national parks and forest service campgrounds. With a solar panel you'll always have plenty of electricity. National parks usually have water spigots in the campgrounds so with a large jug you can add water to your fresh water tank. We have really enjoyed the dry camping capabilities that our Escape gives us.

Coming from a tent, with just the two of you, a 17 or 19 will seem quite luxurious. When you wake up in the middle of the night and your bathroom is just a few feet away, and in the morning you can just reach over and turn on your coffee, you will really appreciate the advantages of a trailer over a tent. Lots of good info on this forum regarding various equipment options, and plenty of people willing to offer help and opinions when you ask!

[Mike G]

One advantage of the 21 over the 19 and 17: no crawling over a sleeping partner to get in or out of bed.

[cpaharley2008]

The nice thing about an Escape is this forum and the customization options. Don't worry/fret about model choice, we did it the wrong way, E19 to a E21 back to a E19, then another E21?

[salmo7000]

Welcome to the forum! I too am a very long term tent camper, also river runner and backpacker. I bought a 19 just about 2 years ago. It seems to be the perfect balance of space for 2 and very easy to tow and manage without being too big. If it was just me, I would have been tempted to go with a 17a. But with 2 of us traveling with dogs and towing with a mid-size truck, it's the perfect size. We almost always camp in Forest Service campgrounds or just boondock out in the middle of nowhere.

When we picked it up in 2018, I had never towed a trailer before, at least not one as big and heavy (I had towed a small, light raft trailer a lot though!). The learning curve wasn't bad, and it wasn't hard. I was even able to back it into our very first campsite that night, got it in straight on the very first try.

Having camped in it multiple times since then, I am still amazed at the comfort it offers as well as the ease of set-up. In many ways, setting up camp and breaking it down is easier and faster than the same with a tent camp. The best part is less stress over weather. Cold wet weather in the forecast?? No problem! Staying dry, warm, and comfortable is easy compared to a tent! And for sleeping?? The 19 comes with a full queen size mattress that is very comfortable. No more inflating sleeping pads or wrestling to set up a cot. You get to sleep in a real bed with sheets and blankets.

I have no regrets whatsoever about getting a 19. I don't wish I had gone with something smaller, and I don't regret not getting a 21 or a 5.0TA. Again, for us the 19 strikes exactly the right balance. Others will undoubtedly chime in with differing opinions, but the bottom line is the "right" trailer can be different for everyone, depending on their needs and expectations. As far as I'm concerned, any Escape is better than none! They are very high quality and designed to last.

As for a tow vehicle, the F-150 reigns supreme in terms of capability. Most everyone here who tows with one will tell you that. Since I'm more of a Chevy person, that's what I have, it does a wonderful job, and I'm very happy with the combination. Dodge and Toyota pickups work great too. Some folks tow with Nissan Frontiers and Jeeps. If you have specific questions about any of these vehicles and their capacities, don't hesitate to ask. In fact, don't hesitate to ask the forum just about anything, everyone here is very willing to help!

[Doug2000]

I can't say enough about Escape. I owned 2 tent trailers, 2 bigger leaky stickies, did I say leaky, a 1977 Trillium 4500, a 2007 Escape 17B, and a 2020 Escape 19 which is being delivered tomorrow.

Which is best for you? If your taller than 5'11" or above average weight, the bed in the 17B might be a little to small. We towed the 17B from southern Ontario to Los Angeles and back at times forgetting it was back there behind the 4Runner. If you want to get of the beaten path a bit, the 17B might be better, just because it's lighter. When your on gravel, you want to stay as light as possible. The 19, well, we upgraded as we wanted a little more storage and a permanent bed. The trailer is 4" wider making the bed that much better for taller people.

What do you need? It sounds like you should get the solar and inverter package. The inverter turns 12 volt to 120 volt. Skip the microwave, maybe the stove and oven. Other smaller items, outdoor shower, we do our dishes outside with it, awning light strip, captains lights, I'm going to put a 12 volt fan in one of the lights place. Many will comment on extra insulation and windows, I never felt the need, I want to see palm trees, not snow, I get enough of snow. Read this link on RV electrical systems.

The 12volt Side of Life (Part 1)

Tow vehicle? I advise people when buying a travel trailer to stay around 50% of towing capacity. If your in an accident situation, a bigger vehicle is always best. My Tundra 4.6L that I just bought tows 6500lbs, my trailer is half that. Since you plan on long trips, a truck for sure. We tend to carry a lot of stuff. Towing is very hard on your vehicle when you start climbing hills. Keep in mind elevation. For every 1000' of elevation you lose 3% horse power. So at 10,000' in Colorado your down 1/3 horsepower. A turbo is nice to have in the mountains.

There are many helpful people on this forum, no shortage of information.

[gbaglo]

We went from a tent trailer to the 17B.
Were I starting from scratch, I'd get the 19 instead. A four person dinette up front is less cramped and a permanent bed in the back ( or reverse those ). We often camp with friends who have a 19 and end up in their trailer for games of cards or for dinners together.

[Dave & Penny Smith]

kavm:

Good luck with your decision making! We faced many of the same questions when we were choosing our Escape in 2015. We chose the 17B, but strongly considered the 19. A major factor in our choice was the lighter weight of the 17 as compared to the 19. We already had our TV (2008 Toyota 4Runner V6) which has a tow limit of 500 lb. tongue and 5,000 lb. total. We wanted to stay well within the 4Runner's limits. We have been completely happy with our 17B. Our camping background includes many years of backpacking, so our camping style is somewhat minimalist.
If we were making the decision again, we would not chose differently.

Things you may wish to consider:
1. How tall are you? My wife is 5'1" and I'm 5'8", so the additional height of the 19 (3") was not a factor for us.
2. How big are you? We are fairly small people (130 lb. and 180 lb.) and used to sleeping in small backpacking tents. So again, the bigger bed of the 19 we did not feel was necessary. The bathroom is the 19 is also bigger and taller, this was not a major factor for us, but might be for you.
3. As you will be buying a TV, the difference in weight between any of the three models you mention will probably not be a factor. It was a major factor for us. Do keep in mind however that the new Escapes are all significantly heavier than the older models.
4. The question as to the relative merits of tandem axles v. single axle is somewhat controversial, but you may wish to research it. Generally, it seems that your choice as to trailer size will determine this question for you.

We generally camp in public cgs (NPS, FS, BLM or state parks) and normally don't have hook-ups. As you consider your choices, you will also be faced with option choices. We recommend that you consider the following: solar panel, dual 6V batteries, additional insulation and dual pane windows (may be standard now?), front storage box, foam insulation under the trailer. We did not get air conditioning as we normally camp in the mountains in the summer.

We live in Sandy, and would more than happy to show you our 17B and discuss Escapes and options with you. Email us if you would like to arrange a time.

Thanks,
Dave & Penny

[kavm]

Wow! Thanks for the warm welcome, advice and feedback! It is fantastic! I was off watching the video orientation from Escape - and did not realize the speed of response!

Your response as well as watching the orientation videos are confirmatory of E19. I will wait for my wife to review the material but seems like it will have more than enough space for us. Not very concerned about the inside sleeping partner waking the other up to go to bathroom. I like the fact that it is double axle - thinking that it will give it more stability and safety while pulling.

After looking at the option sheet, reading the excellent thread by TTMartin on Escape 19 options - here are some of our questions. Please note that we are not very handy mechanically/electrically - so it's better to go with a factory install:

• Our original thought was to pull using the coming Ford Bronco. Its details are not out until July 13th, but it is supposed to have a 2.7-liter, twin-turbocharged V-6 EcoBoost engine as an option. So, it will likely have the required tow capacity, but it will be a lighter SUV (with off-road capabilities we like). It is obviously too early to select it as the tow vehicle (as the specs are not out) but is it a bad idea altogether as it will be a mid-size SUV and too light in weight?
• Failing Bronco, we will look at F150 as the next choice. The 2021 model
  seems to have a new option for built in generator called - Pro Power Onboard. The pricing is not clear yet but I was thinking that it might add a lot to the camping experience. Wondering if that would change the selection on the inverter. [Currently planning on it.]
• I saw a couple of options on insulation - spray foam / spray foam with heat pads. We have winters here and would like to add the option to go camping in winter (something we avoid now). Any advice on these options? I am thinking foam with heat pads.
• U shaped dinette? Is it worth it? There's just the two of us. We aren't the social butterflies or life of the campground types. Friendly, but typically into hiking and getting to bed. So, it'll be just the two of us eating there.
• Power tongue jack? Is this useful. I know we can use the manual lever but wondering if it is a nice to have.
• The frameless windows look nice. Do they have bug screens?
• In the video orientation, the presenter mentioned that sometimes owners have two maxx fans - one inbound one outbound. I did not see any option around that. Is it a good idea?
• Finally, in buying - is it possible to schedule a non-before type delivery date with buying? My wife is a professor - so it is harder for her to join me in picking up the trailer if it clashes with the academic calendar. Also, the towing vehicle choices we are considering are the 2021 models - so don't want it too soon. Aren't likely to use it much with Covid anyway.

Thanks again for the warm welcome!

[75thRanger]

Originally Posted by Mike G

One advantage of the 21 over the 19 and 17: no crawling over a sleeping partner to get in or out of bed.

I miss her crawling over me!

[kavm]

Originally Posted by Dave & Penny Smith

kavm:

Good luck with your decision making! We faced many of the same questions when we were choosing our Escape in 2015. We chose the 17B, but strongly considered the 19. A major factor in our choice was the lighter weight of the 17 as compared to the 19. We already had our TV (2008 Toyota 4Runner V6) which has a tow limit of 500 lb. tongue and 5,000 lb. total. We wanted to stay well within the 4Runner's limits. We have been completely happy with our 17B. Our camping background includes many years of backpacking, so our camping style is somewhat minimalist.
If we were making the decision again, we would not chose differently.

Things you may wish to consider:
1. How tall are you? My wife is 5'1" and I'm 5'8", so the additional height of the 19 (3") was not a factor for us.
2. How big are you? We are fairly small people (130 lb. and 180 lb.) and used to sleeping in small backpacking tents. So again, the bigger bed of the 19 we did not feel was necessary. The bathroom is the 19 is also bigger and taller, this was not a major factor for us, but might be for you.
3. As you will be buying a TV, the difference in weight between any of the three models you mention will probably not be a factor. It was a major factor for us. Do keep in mind however that the new Escapes are all significantly heavier than the older models.
4. The question as to the relative merits of tandem axles v. single axle is somewhat controversial, but you may wish to research it. Generally, it seems that your choice as to trailer size will determine this question for you.

We generally camp in public cgs (NPS, FS, BLM or state parks) and normally don't have hook-ups. As you consider your choices, you will also be faced with option choices. We recommend that you consider the following: solar panel, dual 6V batteries, additional insulation and dual pane windows (may be standard now?), front storage box, foam insulation under the trailer. We did not get air conditioning as we normally camp in the mountains in the summer.

We live in Sandy, and would more than happy to show you our 17B and discuss Escapes and options with you. Email us if you would like to arrange a time.

Thanks,
Dave & Penny

Hello Dave and Penny -

Thank you so so much for your post and the offer to show us your 17B! Your post came in while I was writing the long response.

1. How tall are you? We are vertically challenged - 5 ft - 7 inch and 5 ft - 5 inch. So, height is not an issue for us.
2. How big are you? 140 and 120 lbs, respectively. The full time queen size bed and the bigger bathroom do have some appeal. The bigger bathroom in the 19 seemed small enough
3. TV: We are not planning to buy aTV or TV connection. We hardly watch the TV at home, so definitely don't need it in the trailer.
4. The question as to the relative merits of tandem axles v. single axle is somewhat controversial, but you may wish to research it. From what I read - the positives of tandem seemed to appeal to me. But, perhaps it is worth investigating.

Thank you for the advice on the options. Solar panel, dual 6V batteries, foam insulation with heat pads, front storage box, AC are included in our option list. The dual pane windows are not listed as an option. They offer frameless and framed windows. The frameless looked nice - and all except the bathroom frameless mention thermal in the window name. So, they might be double pane. Perhaps we can ask the Escape rep.

Thank you so much for the generous offer to show your 17B to us. I will speak with my wife and be in touch! Many thanks!

[cpaharley2008]

The air conditioned takes the spot of one of the fans, if you do not want a/c then you can do dual fans. The extra insulation is standard now, optional is the foam spray underneath. I'd skip the heat pads as they require hookups to function properly. Frameless windows have screens inside, we love the power awning with no arms. In the 19 you have a good sized dinette, skip the "U" option. Do not understand your last question....

[cpaharley2008]

The front storage box is great as is solar and dual 6 volts. Other than that you will have the good trailer.

[kavm]

Originally Posted by cpaharley2008

The air conditioned takes the spot of one of the fans, if you do not want a/c then you can do dual fans. The extra insulation is standard now, optional is the foam spray underneath. I'd skip the heat pads as they require hookups to function properly. Frameless windows have screens inside, we love the power awning with no arms. In the 19 you have a good sized dinette, skip the "U" option. Do not understand your last question....

Thank you so much! The dual fan vs. a/c choice is now clear. That helps a lot! Feedback on the power awning and heat pad is very helpful.

We definitely want the front storage and solar + dual 6V battery pack.

The last question is perhaps more for the Escape team. It is just some calendar constraints on our side regarding taking possession/delivery. We can work that out with the Escape team.

Many thanks!

[Dave & Penny Smith]

kavm:

I'll try to anwer your questions, although some are beyond my direct experience.

1. TV: can't really comment on either of these choices. Our 4Runner is considered a mid-size SUV. It has full off-road capability and although we do a fair amount of gravel and dirt road driving, we rarely use (but like having the transfer case (low range) and skid plates. I don't believe most of the new SUV have transfer cases, you may want research this for the Bronco. With respect to the F150, check the net payload rating. This is the maximum weight you should carry above tongue weight of trailer, fuel weight and passenger weight. Some of the pick-up trucks have surprising low net payload ratings-- very surprising given that they're trucks. Regarding the on-board generator, I'm not the best person to ask as we don't use one (not only on-board or portable). We like the quiet of not hearing them and not adding to the air pollution. I do know that our TV emits pollution. As to the question of an inverter, we do not have one. We do not use any 120V appliances (that would require an inverter) and with our solar panel and dual 6V batteries, battery capacity has never been an issue for us (up six days without moving or having hook-ups.

2. Insulation: we have the spray foam insulation, but don't have the heat pads. We do more three season camping (we our generally skiing at Alta in the winter) than real winter camping. If my understanding is correct, the heat pads require either hook-ups or a generator--as would an air conditioner. We did get the additional insulation, it was an option in 2015. We've camped in below freezing temperatures, but it has always been in conditions where day-time temperatures were above freezing. If you want to do serious winter camping, you may want to consider a double wall trailer (Bigfoot or Oliver). These are significantly heavier and more expensive than an Escape however.

3. U Shaped Dinette: we don't have it and don't feel the need for it.

4. Power Tongue Jack: again don't have or feel the need for. I do believe these are easy to add later if you decide it would be an advantage.

5. Frameless Windows: these were not an option in 2015. I believe they do have screens. One advantage they offer is an opening rear window--this is not the case with the framed windows.

6. Two Max Fans: we don't have. I believe this is an option available on 19 (and up) if one doesn't get air conditioning.

7. Delivery Date: Escape could give you a definitive answer on this, in the past they have stored trailers (at no charge) for later pick-up.

Good luck with your decision making. We find that we have more than adequate storage in the 17B, so I'm sure the storage in the 19 would be adequate for you. We've done a few trips where our adult son has joined for all (or part) of the trip and storage has been okay for even three adults. We don't find climbing over one another getting out of bed to be a serious concern, although my wife complains about it. If you haven't done so, contact Escape and they'll be happy to give you the names of local owners. We'd be happy to show your our 17B, but you may want to see a 19 (or even a 21) as well. We looked at two 17s and a 19 before we made our decision. If you have additional questions feel free to ask. We took advantage of several owners as we were decision making!

Dave

[kavm]

Thank you so much, Dave! Definitely very helpful!

[padlin]

If you are not aware, Escape does not own or read this forum, as far as I know. Your last question should be sent via email to them or you could call.

info@escapetrailer.com

[UncleTim]

Originally Posted by kavm

Our intended use is driving to the national parks and national forests (mostly Western US, Canadian rockies, Alaska) - not really boondocking (possibility) but heavier usage of non-commercial national park or national forest service campgrounds with limited or hookups.

Decisions:

• Started by thinking of 17 ft but now thinking of Escape 19 - with a slim possibility of considering 21. Could use ideas. Our situation: No dog, no children, coming from tent camping - so don't travel with the kitchen sink.
• Being completely uneducated in the trailers and towing, quite unclear about the decisions on the options that seem to be part of the buying process. And, we barely understand what they mean..
• Will be buying a tow vehicle. Original thought was coming Ford Bronco but that might be too light for Escape 19. So, thinking F150 but not firm on that. Could use indicators on that.

Now hold on here for a moment.


I would strongly suggest you look at the 5.0TA. Humor me for a moment please. The kin pin attachment is arguably the best/safest attachment possible (I believe it is). And when you combine it with a lightweight, twin axial trailer that tracks like a dream, you have a worry free experience. It does not even challenge the weight limits of the king pin system! This is huge! The design is brilliant! It easily fits into a double parking stall. It never moves behind my truck and it is a dream to pull.

Here's the unspoken thing. I am becoming evangelical about this (so to speak, I ain't got no religion). The bed is perfect! It sits about 6.5 feet off the ground and has beautiful airflow with the windows. Always (ummm... 4 trips actually)! The bed is better than the one we have at home. I have nights when I cannot sleep very effectively, I still love it up there (singing while I say this)! I love sleeping up high! And the separation of space between living and sleeping quarters deserves some consideration. For us, alot! Sliding in and out is easy and sure.

And you have the full 21 feet! The 5.0TA was designed to be pulled by the F150! Look it up! Best towing system for this type of rig (IMHO). Cheaper? No. But the different pro's and con's deserve a good hearty look. Only you can tell.

Guess well! See you out there!

[gbaglo]

If you are going to use a weight distribution hitch and if you plan to age, you will want a power hitch jack. I want one.

[kavm]

Nice idea, UncleTim! We are, and even more importantly - my wife is, a minimalist. The whole trailer buying, going anything beyond the smallest trailer is a stretch for her. She will think that I have lost all my sense if I suggest anything beyond 19 ft. So, can't really go there...

We are very straight and narrow - hiking is our main passion. And, a good hike helps the sleep a lot. Not long ago, we hiked to the Everest base camp - and slept 12+ hour every night without interruption for 2 weeks!

It helped that it was freezing (upto -10C inside the tea house) and there was no light to speak of