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Old 01-23-2019, 11:41 AM   #21
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IF you can tow any size ETI build and if you can afford any ETI build, then layout becomes #1 consideration. Fortunately, since I camped in my Scamp for 12 years, I knew what was important to me. I hated the kitchen. Free counter space the length of a dollar bill. Yes, I used all the 'solutions' from a small folding table in the aisle, to putting a board on the open drawer, to using the dinette... just to prepare food. UGH. The 19' has nearly the same counter space as my Scamp. So, that was out, for me. Besides, I wanted a rear dinette. It seems all the beautiful places I camp, the view is out the rear. I know what the back of my truck looks like, didn't want to look at it while I sat in the dinette. Below is an example. I had to take the pic out the front door, because my 5.0TA doesn't have a front window, the other through the rear window. This was my campsite for four days. Which would you rather look at while eating a meal... or for any reason you were sitting at the dinette? You get to decide for yourselves. IF a 19' was the only choice... I'd reverse the dinette/bed as some others have done. IMHO, while the 21' is only 2' longer and 4" wider, it seems huge inside, in comparison to the 19'

What's 'best' for you? Only you can determine that. But I think it's really important that you personally view all the models you can, so YOU can compare.

Good luck with your decision
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Old 01-25-2019, 08:22 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by Donna D. View Post
IF you can tow any size ETI build and if you can afford any ETI build, then layout becomes #1 consideration. Fortunately, since I camped in my Scamp for 12 years, I knew what was important to me. I hated the kitchen. Free counter space the length of a dollar bill. Yes, I used all the 'solutions' from a small folding table in the aisle, to putting a board on the open drawer, to using the dinette... just to prepare food. UGH. The 19' has nearly the same counter space as my Scamp. So, that was out, for me. Besides, I wanted a rear dinette. It seems all the beautiful places I camp, the view is out the rear. I know what the back of my truck looks like, didn't want to look at it while I sat in the dinette. Below is an example. I had to take the pic out the front door, because my 5.0TA doesn't have a front window, the other through the rear window. This was my campsite for four days. Which would you rather look at while eating a meal... or for any reason you were sitting at the dinette? You get to decide for yourselves. IF a 19' was the only choice... I'd reverse the dinette/bed as some others have done. IMHO, while the 21' is only 2' longer and 4" wider, it seems huge inside, in comparison to the 19'

What's 'best' for you? Only you can determine that. But I think it's really important that you personally view all the models you can, so YOU can compare.

Good luck with your decision
Thanks Donna for your comments! I’ll be pulling a 19 with a 2015 Tacoma v6 4WD with the factory tow pkg. good up to 6500 lbs. towing capacity. Wife likes the layout, I like the size. Questions: Is insulation and spray foam underneath necessary for 3 season use? WDH and antisway bar recommendations? Wife not fond of wet bath—condensation issues? any workaround other than outside water hookup? Thanks for any further comments! Karmantra
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Old 01-25-2019, 08:48 PM   #23
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Questions: Is insulation and spray foam underneath necessary for 3 season use? ............ Wife not fond of wet bath—condensation issues?
I can't help with the spray foam. I don't have it, have never regretted my decision. I'd rather be cold (for a camp trip) than dealing with something that (IMHO) is 100% all the time UGLY.
The wet bath, is what it is. In my estimation if there's condensation issues.. there's other issues, but it's not because of the wet bath. Wouldn't a dry bath be wonderful? Of course, but remember for every inch put into a 'bathroom' it has to come from someplace else. I'd rather have more storage cabinets, a bigger kitchen counter, a BIGGER bed.. than a 'room' (dry bath) that's only used a few minutes a day... or less. YMMV
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Old 01-25-2019, 09:59 PM   #24
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Donna: Point well taken on the condensation—guess a rag wipe down is the only alternative. Can see the value of insulation in Escape, but the spray foam seems unnecessary for a 3 season application. Then there is the oven/stovetop combo and/or microwave/standard fridge in the kitchen. Which gets used most, the microor the oven? Thanks!
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Old 01-26-2019, 06:16 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by Karmantra View Post
Thanks Donna for your comments! I’ll be pulling a 19 with a 2015 Tacoma v6 4WD with the factory tow pkg. good up to 6500 lbs. towing capacity. Wife likes the layout, I like the size. Questions: Is insulation and spray foam underneath necessary for 3 season use? WDH and antisway bar recommendations? Wife not fond of wet bath—condensation issues? any workaround other than outside water hookup? Thanks for any further comments! Karmantra
Donna recently started a poll on the spray on insulation. Of the respondents, more than 60% opted for the spray foam underneath. Read the comments on why people paid extra for "something ugly".
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Old 01-26-2019, 06:52 AM   #26
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Here's the foam poll thread.

http://www.escapeforum.org/forums/f7...ers-14622.html
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Old 01-26-2019, 07:07 AM   #27
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Actually less than 30% opted for non foam and the majority opted for the foam, which you can not see unless you drop a penny and reach down to pick it up. The warm floors and quiet atmosphere is worth the option. As far as oven/microwave, it all depends on whether you will have electric hook ups or not. The microwave needs electric as does the air conditioning, otherwise everything else is 12v/propane operation and with solar means unlimited use.
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Old 01-26-2019, 09:16 AM   #28
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Donna: Point well taken on the condensation—guess a rag wipe down is the only alternative. Can see the value of insulation in Escape, but the spray foam seems unnecessary for a 3 season application. Then there is the oven/stovetop combo and/or microwave/standard fridge in the kitchen. Which gets used most, the microor the oven? Thanks!
Microwave / oven depends on your cooking style and storage needs. We do not have either in our 2013 19’. We ordered the oven for our as-yet-to-be-built 5.0 because it is big enough to still have silverware drawers with the oven. You would loose those in a 19. My wive uses an insta-pot and loves it. We realized we mostly used the microwave for heating cold coffee and popcorn so did not order that option in our 5.0. Also you need to be plugged into shore power for a microwave. The space trade-off is not worth it for us. Others pre-make frozen meals and use the microwave to heat them so again, depends on your camping / cooking style, how long you are out, etc.

(BTW my 2013 19’ will be for sell next month for $25K.)
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Old 01-26-2019, 09:41 AM   #29
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Donna: Point well taken on the condensation—guess a rag wipe down is the only alternative. Can see the value of insulation in Escape, but the spray foam seems unnecessary for a 3 season application. Then there is the oven/stovetop combo and/or microwave/standard fridge in the kitchen. Which gets used most, the microor the oven? Thanks!
Hi: Karmantra... If you already have a pickup why not go straight to the 5.0TA? Do not pass go, do not collect $500. just collect memories. I hope your "Karma" doesn't run over my "Dogma". Alf
escape artist N.S. of Lake Erie "Searchin' for my lost shaker of salt".
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Old 01-26-2019, 10:31 AM   #30
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About the poll--keep in mind that there is a strong respondent bias in any voluntary response exercise. I, for one, neither ordered the foam nor responded to the poll. ETI could actually tell you how many people order the undercarriage foam, but probably won't put a number on it.

FWIW, I didn't order the foam because the sales consultant told me that it was relatively easy to add it later if, after using the trailer for a season or two, I decided I wanted it. Also, there is a DIY solid foam alternative which is the subject of a thread on this forum. BTW, the insulted shell and thermal windows have to be ordered at the time of purchase, can't be retrofitted, and are, I think, a very good idea. We spent the money for those.

About whether you need the foam undercoat for three season use, like most things, it depends on how you use your new Escape. You live in the Pacific Northwest. You probably don't need the foam for winter storm watching on the Coast. If you plan to park your new trailer at an RV park near a ski resort and use it as a winter cabin you probably want the foam, and may want to camp dry and use the RV park's plumbing (they've probably closed off the water the individual sites for the winter, anyway).

About the microwave and the oven (and the bigger frig)--we went with the bigger frig, but not the oven or the microwave. My wife didn't want the oven on principle, and I can foresee regretting that decision later. A microwave is an easy aftermarket purchase if you find you miss it, so I didn't sweat that one. Also, I was looking to maximize storage.
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Old 01-26-2019, 10:41 AM   #31
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Wife not fond of wet bath—condensation issues? any workaround other than outside water hookup? Thanks for any further comments! Karmantra

Who likes the wet bath other than the smaller space it takes up?


We bring along an outdoor shower tent. We would not have a trailer without the outside shower option. Our shower tent has the option of no roof. It makes the shower experience wonderful (if you like that nature thing). My wife is the biggest fan of this setup. Yes, it is chilly (or too cold) sometimes. Yes, there are locations where this is not a viable option (or even legal). The indoor shower is always the backup option or in many cases I get a great, hot, roomy shower for 50 cents in a campground's central shower.


So, although we are not fans of the wet bath, it doesn't stop us.
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Old 01-26-2019, 11:19 AM   #32
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We ordered the oven for our as-yet-to-be-built 5.0 because it is big enough to still have silverware drawers with the oven. You would loose those in a 19.

Escape built out 19 with an oven, and with two silverware drawers under the closet.
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Old 01-26-2019, 11:35 AM   #33
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Who likes the wet bath other than the smaller space it takes up?
I do. I can multitask and take care of everything at the same time.
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Old 01-26-2019, 03:04 PM   #34
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Escape built out 19 with an oven, and with two silverware drawers under the closet.
Good to know! Thanks!
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Old 01-26-2019, 03:17 PM   #35
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Hi: Karmantra... If you already have a pickup why not go straight to the 5.0TA? Do not pass go, do not collect $500. just collect memories. I hope your "Karma" doesn't run over my "Dogma". Alf
escape artist N.S. of Lake Erie "Searchin' for my lost shaker of salt".
A Tacoma would not work well with the 5.0. I researched it and traded in my 2016 Tacoma for a 2017 Tundra. The Tacoma does not have enough payload capacity for the pin weight + passengers, dog, etc. Also it has a composite bed not steel so would require more modifications for a 5th wheel hitch. Nice thought though!
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Old 01-26-2019, 07:40 PM   #36
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A Tacoma would not work well with the 5.0. I researched it and traded in my 2016 Tacoma for a 2017 Tundra. The Tacoma does not have enough payload capacity for the pin weight + passengers, dog, etc. Also it has a composite bed not steel so would require more modifications for a 5th wheel hitch. Nice thought though!
The Tacoma will work with the Escape 19–rather put the $$$$ into the trailer rather than an upgrade to a Tundra! Mods on the composite bed would also impact any storage in the bed of the pickup, although one has to be aware of not overloading the pickup capacity. Which leads to another question: which ‘lightweight’ hitch equalizer antisway bar setup works best, as well being easy to install? Thanks again for your comments! Karmantra
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Old 01-26-2019, 08:11 PM   #37
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The Tacoma will work with the Escape 19–rather put the $$$$ into the trailer rather than an upgrade to a Tundra! Mods on the composite bed would also impact any storage in the bed of the pickup, although one has to be aware of not overloading the pickup capacity. Which leads to another question: which ‘lightweight’ hitch equalizer antisway bar setup works best, as well being easy to install? Thanks again for your comments! Karmantra
I think the Tacoma and the 19' are a good match but not the Tacoma and 5.0TA 5th wheel. I started with a 2014 Tacoma and the 2013 19' Escape. Then I traded in the 2014 Taco for a 2016 TRD Sport. The 3rd generation 2016 with the smaller engine and the 6 speed tranny still worked fine with the 19' trailer but the torque range is about 750 RPM higher. I ended up in lower gears and higher RPM for the same grades as I used to pull with the 2014. So your 2nd generation 2015 Taco will work great with the new 19' Escape. Just know you will spend a lot of time in 4th gear living in Bend unless you only go to Madres and back! ;-)

I used the Fastaway E2 WDH on my setup with Sumo overload springs. It took a bit of work to get the E2 adjusted properly. 20/20 hindsight I should have filled the grey and black tanks before setting it up. But after I got it dialed in, no issues.
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