12V AGM Battery for a 21

[Jim Bennett]

I have the U-shaped dinette and my vent is on the passenger side at the rear. I wish it was behind the spare tire.

Originally Posted by Dave Walter

I suspect that Escapes reasoning is that, sure you may not need the vent with your current AGM batteries, but if those batteries ever need to be replaced (and maybe the trailer is owned by someone else at that time), they may decide to go back to a style of batteries that requires venting.

That's exactly the reason.

[Donna D.]

Originally Posted by Jim Bennett

I have the U-shaped dinette and my vent is on the passenger side at the rear. I wish it was behind the spare tire.

OH my. Ignore my post about battery placement then. Because it's obviously WRONG.

[War Eagle]

Originally Posted by Kent

War Eagle that peaks my interest would the Furrion Solar Port fill and cover the vent hole? I plan on having ETI install this on my build and already have the solar port and matching connector that's wired to the portable Solar panel.

Kent, It appears that ETI drills a 2 1/2" diameter hole through the wall, and the flexible tubing appears to be 2" diameter (it's a bit of a challenge to actually measure). So it looks to me like your Furrion Port would fit. The catch would be the diameter of that flange that sticks out the back of the port. If it's under 2 1/2", and you should be okay (seems like I should add some kind of a disclaimer here in case I'm all wrong).

Donna D, I want to think you are correct, at least regarding new generation 21' and 5.0TA models with the u-shaped dinette, that ETI's standard battery location is under the rear seat. But there are enough new gen owners of such a configuration out there now that they should be able to answer that question for us all.

[Kent]

Originally Posted by War Eagle

Kent, It appears that ETI drills a 2 1/2" diameter hole through the wall, and the flexible tubing appears to be 2" diameter (it's a bit of a challenge to actually measure). So it looks to me like your Furrion Port would fit. The catch would be the diameter of that flange that sticks out the back of the port. If it's under 2 1/2", and you should be okay (seems like I should add some kind of a disclaimer here in case I'm all wrong).

War Eagle, it would fit but the Furrion solar port does not look like it would cover the 4 rivet holes and would need some sort of cover plate behind. Definitely doable though!

The disclaimer should be understood by all. Top of each thread should be disclaimer "MOD AT YOUR OWN RISK, no contributing member shall be held liable for the mods you choose to do"

[James Gang]

My vent is on the rear of the trailer, just to the right of the spare tire.

[War Eagle]

Originally Posted by James Gang

My vent is on the rear of the trailer, just to the right of the spare tire.

What is your dinette configuration? Standard side benches or u-shape?

BTW, love the name and spare tire cover. Don't look now, but someone stole your license plate! (Just kidding, but it's not there in the photo.)

[Jim Bennett]

Man, went looking for a good photo showing my battery vent, and it seems though I took a lot of photos of the work I did, I have very few of the actual trailer. This is one from picking it up in January, but you can see the vent right under the rear marker light.

[James Gang]

Standard table setup. No plate as I was coming from Chilliwack and had not returned to Texas yet. Just got my plate 2 weeks ago. Being as I live in the city of Austin, the Austin police must do the vin (68-A) inspection. They only do it the second Thursday of the month. They were booked for September and so I had to wait until October. Only took 5 minutes. I then drove to Precinct 4 of Travis County where there is a tax office substation. 20 minutes after arriving I walked out with my plate and a big hole in my wallet.

[matt]

Originally Posted by cpaharley2008

I ordered the group 29 battery for my 21 which was fine for a year but decided to go with dual 6ers due to a sale at Sam's Club. The advantage of the group 29 is it's size, Escape installed it in the dual 6ers box so it was an easy upgrade.

Does anyone know the dimensions of the battery box ETI uses for the 2 6v batteries? If ETI will let me I plan on bringing my own single 12v AGM battery. I would like to get as large a size AGM 12v as the box will accommodate. Group 29, 31, or 34.

[Donna D.]

The battery vent on Ten Forward is hidden behind the spare tire. Can't even see it. Yes it's there, I've seen it

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by matt

I would like to get as large a size AGM 12v as the box will accommodate. Group 29, 31, or 34.

The 6-volt batteries are of the GC2 size:

10-5/16" long by 7-1/8" wide by 11" high.

That means if even if they are placed with their long sides adjacent and touching, the box must be at least 14-1/4" long to fit both, at least 10-5/16" wide, and at least 11" high. A single (12-volt) battery within these dimensions will fit... if you can manoeuver it into the box. The largest of the BCI group numbers listed above is the Group 31, and even it is only about 13" long, 6-13/16" wide, and 9-7/16" tall, so there would be lots of space around a Group 29, 31, or 34 battery in the dual-battery box.

There are larger sizes of 12 volt battery than Group 31, but they're relatively uncommon, and the most common of the big 12V sizes might be the 8D, which is too large.

[War Eagle]

Originally Posted by Brian B-P

The 6-volt batteries are of the GC2 size:

10-5/16" long by 7-1/8" wide by 11" high.

That means if even if they are placed with their long sides adjacent and touching, the box must be at least 14-1/4" long to fit both, at least 10-5/16" wide, and at least 11" high. A single (12-volt) battery within these dimensions will fit... if you can manoeuver it into the box. The largest of the BCI group numbers listed above is the Group 31, and even it is only about 13" long, 6-13/16" wide, and 9-7/16" tall, so there would be lots of space around a Group 29, 31, or 34 battery in the dual-battery box. There are larger sizes of 12 volt battery than Group 31, but they're relatively uncommon, and the most common of the big 12V sizes might be the 8D, which is too large.

Would AGM batteries even need to be in a box? Couldn't you just toss the box and strap however many AGM batteries of whatever size you want to the floor?

[Klem]

Originally Posted by War Eagle

Would AGM batteries even need to be in a box? Couldn't you just toss the box and strap however many AGM batteries of whatever size you want to the floor?

Sealed Batteries Still Need Venting

AGM batteries are sealed, but they still off-gas. Here's how to provide adequate ventilation.

Sealed Batteries Still Need Venting - boats.com

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by War Eagle

Would AGM batteries even need to be in a box? Couldn't you just toss the box and strap however many AGM batteries of whatever size you want to the floor?

Even if you don't think they need ventilation, the electrical terminals need to be protected. That doesn't require a sealed box, but since the trailer comes with one - and the wiring all runs into it - I think it makes a pretty good place for any battery.

[Jim Bennett]

Originally Posted by War Eagle

Would AGM batteries even need to be in a box? Couldn't you just toss the box and strap however many AGM batteries of whatever size you want to the floor?

Yes you could, and I had first thought to do that. However, seeing Escape insisted on installing the box and putting my supplied batteries in it, it turns out that I do like this installation, as it secures and protects the batteries well. But, If for some reason you felt the need for more battery power, or some of the larger batteries available, it would be a different story.

[War Eagle]

Originally Posted by Klem

Sealed Batteries Still Need Venting AGM batteries are sealed, but they still off-gas. Here's how to provide adequate ventilation.
Sealed Batteries Still Need Venting - boats.com

It's interesting to note that in the reference you provide, they suggest (see quote below) the need for venting AGM batteries is so minor that they can be vented into the cabin as long as the cabin is vented, which ETI already installs a small louvered vent under the bench where the batteries are located - so it appears that should suffice, based on your reference. So again, it appears even for proper venting, according to your reference, one doesn't need to put AGM batteries in a closed box vented to the outside.

"The good news here is that hydrogen mixes with air very readily and so not too much ventilation is required. On an installation similar to yours I installed a small pre-made chromed louver, available at most chandleries, in the end of the settee. Just locate the louver as high on the side of the cabinet as you can reasonably get it. That will vent the compartment to the main cabin area, and from there it will get vented to the outside of the boat. Easy fix."

If the academic question is, how much AGM battery power can one stuff in the existing battery box, that's fine. My comment is simply, with AMG batteries, why restrict oneself to the box. And I guess I'm still not convinced that one needs to.

[Jim Bennett]

AGMs do require venting in that they should not be placed in a sealed, unvented container. I did a schwack of research into it, and it was confirmed by many that a room or cabin of a trailer/boat constituted a vented area. As well, a local solar shop I by from that said they regularly place banks of AGM batteries inside when doing solar installations. They did caution that though these batteries can handle a fairly fast charge not to overdo it, and to not overcharge them too.

This quote from Santiago is something that backed up what I had learned after he contacted LifeLine about the same issue.

Regarding what Escape said, I was told pretty much the same, but they had no issue installing AGMs, and did so, as long as they were used in a vented box. They WOULD NOT allow installation of AGMs without the box. Once you get it into your own hands, you are then free to do as you wish.

Originally Posted by Santiago

On the subject of venting in the cabin, I spoke to LifeLine and was told that their AGMs are designed to be used in the cabin. I brought up their document that states ventilation is required. He said yes, "do not place battery in a sealed container" an RV cabin is not a sealed container thus they have no issue recommending the battery being indoor as long as its not in a sealed box. In the cabin any slight venting should it occur will dissipate. This is not the case with flooded wet cell.

On the question of Escape allowing us to order a trailer without their flooded battery and allowing us to install our own AGM before it leaves the factory even if we have the AGM delivered to them ahead of time .... NO ! "As a certified manufacturer we have certain guidelines we have to follow during the production process".

[matt]

Originally Posted by Brian B-P

The 6-volt batteries are of the GC2 size:

10-5/16" long by 7-1/8" wide by 11" high.

That means if even if they are placed with their long sides adjacent and touching, the box must be at least 14-1/4" long to fit both, at least 10-5/16" wide, and at least 11" high. A single (12-volt) battery within these dimensions will fit... if you can manoeuver it into the box. The largest of the BCI group numbers listed above is the Group 31, and even it is only about 13" long, 6-13/16" wide, and 9-7/16" tall, so there would be lots of space around a Group 29, 31, or 34 battery in the dual-battery box.

There are larger sizes of 12 volt battery than Group 31, but they're relatively uncommon, and the most common of the big 12V sizes might be the 8D, which is too large.

Thank you Brian for getting those battery box dimensions. I will likely go with a group 29 or 31 AGM. I have not entirely ruled out the 2 6V batteries but since my tow vehicle has only a 5000 lbs tow capacity I am considering the weight of each option (probably overly concerned). ETI told me the 6V battery option adds 70 lbs. Also the cost of 2 6V AGMs is more $$. But the extra battery capacity of the 2 6V is tempting.

[1Oldman]

The information below was taken from this link Health Concerns with Batteries - Battery University

Ventilation

Charging batteries in living quarters should be safe, and this also applies to lead acid. Ventilate the area regularly as you would a kitchen when cooking. Lead acid produces some hydrogen gas but the amount is minimal when charged correctly. Hydrogen gas becomes explosive at a concentration of 4 percent. This would only be achieved if large lead acid batteries were charged in a sealed room.

Over-charging a lead acid battery can produce hydrogen sulfide. The gas is colorless, very poisonous, flammable and has the odor of rotten eggs. Hydrogen sulfide also occurs naturally during the breakdown of organic matter in swamps and sewers; it is present in volcanic gases, natural gas and some well waters. Being heavier than air, the gas accumulates at the bottom of poorly ventilated spaces. Although noticeable at first, the sense of smell deadens the sensation with time and potential victims may be unaware of its presence.

As a simple guideline, hydrogen sulfide becomes harmful to human life if the odor is noticeable. Turn off the charger, vent the facility and stay outside until the odor disappears.

Because ETI already has made provision for venting the battery box, and even if it's not perfect, I don't think I'll loose any sleep worrying about my battery being under the dinette seat. But maybe that's just me. Dan

[Jim Bennett]

Originally Posted by 1Oldman

Because ETI already has made provision for venting the battery box, and even if it's not perfect, I don't think I'll loose any sleep worrying about my battery being under the dinette seat. But maybe that's just me. Dan

Sounds like good common sense to me, Dan. Too many more important things in life to be concerned about.