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05-12-2017, 04:30 PM
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#21
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Front Range, Colorado
Trailer: 2017 5.0 TA picked up in July 2017.
Posts: 523
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never mind.
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05-12-2017, 06:24 PM
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#22
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Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: petaluma, California
Trailer: 2015 Escape 21 2002 Tundra 4x4 V-8 tow package.
Posts: 163
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I almost always try to run my RMD 8555 on 12 volt when traveling on sunny days. The 320 watts on the roof will keep up with demand. Between 10 am and 4 pm the panels put out 10-16 amps on the road in full sun and that's generally when we travel. On day's when cloudy or on the road 10 hours or so I run 12 volt and propane. The charge wire to my hitch is #12
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05-12-2017, 08:14 PM
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#23
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Member
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Central, New Jersey
Trailer: 2015 Escape 21, 2014 Four Wheel Campers Grandby
Posts: 35
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I have also looked into the DC to DC charger solution. I have used this solution in my slide-in camper for about two years now without any problems. For my Escape 21, the cable run would be longer and the Fridge load would be larger. The other difference is the breakaway switch for the trailer brakes. Any DC to DC charger solution would need to ensure that the trailer brakes engage if the breakaway switch is activated.
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05-12-2017, 09:29 PM
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#24
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Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Edmonton, Alberta
Trailer: 1979 Boler B1700
Posts: 14,935
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NJ Joe
I have also looked into the DC to DC charger solution.
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Any DC to DC charger solution would need to ensure that the trailer brakes engage if the breakaway switch is activated.
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Why would the charging method matter to the breakaway switch? Perhaps you're thinking that the DC-to-DC charger would be used instead of having a battery in the trailer - no, the charger would not replace the trailer's battery, so if the trailer breaks away the charger is irrelevant, the battery is still there, and the breakaway switch still works.
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05-13-2017, 07:57 AM
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#25
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Member
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Central, New Jersey
Trailer: 2015 Escape 21, 2014 Four Wheel Campers Grandby
Posts: 35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian B-P
the battery is still there, and the breakaway switch still works.
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I agree that the battery is still there. The current path from the battery to the breakaway switch is the question. The answer depends on the original trailer wiring and how you tie the DC controller into the circuit. The DC charger controller would typically be wired somewhere in line with the charge cable originating at the Hopkins socket on the TV and ending at the battery. If the breakaway switch shares this same cable to get power from the battery, there may be a problem.
I'm not saying that this can not be done. Just suggesting that this aspect of it needs to be considered when designing the system.
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05-13-2017, 01:28 PM
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#26
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Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Edmonton, Alberta
Trailer: 1979 Boler B1700
Posts: 14,935
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NJ Joe
I agree that the battery is still there. The current path from the battery to the breakaway switch is the question. The answer depends on the original trailer wiring and how you tie the DC controller into the circuit. The DC charger controller would typically be wired somewhere in line with the charge cable originating at the Hopkins socket on the TV and ending at the battery. If the breakaway switch shares this same cable to get power from the battery, there may be a problem.
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Ah - makes sense. Assuming the DC-to-DC charger is mounted on the trailer (rather than in the tug, which would also work), the battery charge line line from the tug would need to go to the charger input and nothing else, and of course the charger output goes to the battery, with other connections to the battery unchanged.
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05-13-2017, 09:26 PM
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#27
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Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Yellow Springs, Ohio
Trailer: 2013 Escape 19
Posts: 709
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It sound like just running a monster cable to the hitch as suggested by Santiago and Alan gets the most bang for the buck, even though there is still the issue of the alternator output being commanded by the TV battery rather than the Escape's. Still, with the fridge hopefully working on some sort of duty cycle as Jim pointed out, perhaps the charge can catch up somewhat at least. I don't see a downside other than the cost of running new wires. A 160W panel is an intriguing idea, but we don't really use that much power even dry camping.
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05-13-2017, 10:37 PM
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#28
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Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Arvada, Colorado
Trailer: 2015 E'21 - 'Velocity'. Tow: Toyota Tacoma V6, 4X4, manual.
Posts: 1,684
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Parker
It sound like just running a monster cable to the hitch as suggested by Santiago and Alan gets the most bang for the buck, even though there is still the issue of the alternator output being commanded by the TV battery rather than the Escape's. Still, with the fridge hopefully working on some sort of duty cycle as Jim pointed out, perhaps the charge can catch up somewhat at least.
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A particular device/load/battery doesn't "command" all the alternator output. The juice flows to all devices in proportion to their apparent resistance. Or in other words, the device that needs the most, gets the most. For example, you can run your headlights and still charge the battery.
So if the tow battery is charged and the trailer battery is low, then more current flows to the trailer battery. But - and this is the rub - the apparent resistance includes all the wire voltage drop between the alternator to the device and back again. This is a real resistance, not just apparent, and the voltage drop changes according to the amps being pulled. The fridge is a particular problem because it never "charges". When running it needs 15 (+/-) amps, unlike a battery that eventually needs 0 amps when full.
This is a case of the laws of physics hitting you in the pocketbook.
--
Alan
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05-13-2017, 11:40 PM
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#29
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Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Yellow Springs, Ohio
Trailer: 2013 Escape 19
Posts: 709
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Bad choice of words on my part. I've been reading recently about modern alternator systems that reduce their charging as much as possible based on what's going on with the nearby TV battery, almost irrespective of the load from the camper. Resistance in the wiring really is the culprit of course. And that still ignores the increased voltage that's really desirable for deep cycle batteries. I can see how this leads to schemes for jacking up the voltage to the trailer and then using a solar controller, but that's well above and beyond what I want to tackle.
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05-14-2017, 10:49 AM
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#30
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Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Chattanooga, Tennessee
Trailer: 2015 19 foot
Posts: 439
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We have an Escape 19 two years old and always run with 12v refrigerator on. The 2 6v batteries are charged by the Jeep Grand Cherokee with stock towing package and 160w solar, and we always have plenty of charge when we arrive after towing all day. I will start paying more attention to the voltage when we arrive but I recall it is between 12.6 and 13.2 volts.
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05-22-2017, 06:44 PM
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#31
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Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Chattanooga, Tennessee
Trailer: 2015 19 foot
Posts: 439
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bdornbush
We have an Escape 19 two years old and always run with 12v refrigerator on. The 2 6v batteries are charged by the Jeep Grand Cherokee with stock towing package and 160w solar, and we always have plenty of charge when we arrive after towing all day. I will start paying more attention to the voltage when we arrive but I recall it is between 12.6 and 13.2 volts.
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On a recent trip, I checked the battery voltage and level of charge as reported by my Trimetric battery monitor. When I arrive, the battery voltage is usually right about 12.6 volts with the refrigerator still on battery, and jumps to 13.0 volts when I turn off the refrigerator. The Trimetric reports that the battery is 100% charged. so it appears that the combination of my Jeep and my factory 160w solar panel keeps my battery charged even while running the refrigerator on battery. On this recent trip, the sun was shining almost all the time so I was getting a lot of solar charging. When I checked the current, the refrigerator was using about 50% more current than the solar panel was producing, so the balance, about 3.5 amps, must be made up by the Jeep.
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12-25-2017, 09:21 AM
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#32
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: St Louis, Missouri
Trailer: 2017 5.0TA
Posts: 253
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg A
My thoughts are that in addition to the heavy ga charge line, you'd need to put the beefiest alternator offered in the tow vehicle. Those two items combined with solar would probably be sufficient.
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Greg, I think you have the best grasp here. Almost any TV alternator is more than up to the job of BOTH powering even the 23 amp, 12 volt, 6ft^3 fridges AND charging the heaviest available batt packs. It's just a matter of a properly fused/breakered heavy line from the TV batt pos connection. Done it on 2 previous TV's, no problem..
__________________
Peg and Bob
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12-25-2017, 10:26 AM
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#33
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Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: North of Danbury, Wisconsin
Trailer: 2018 Escape 21C
Posts: 3,033
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Walter
Why not just drive with the fridge operating on propane? Many people (myself included) do so and have great success with that approach.
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Makes logical sense , Complicating something for little or no gain and at great expense never appealed to me. We run our refrigerator on propane and arrive at our campsite with a charged trailer battery.
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12-25-2017, 10:51 AM
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#34
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Site Team
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Canyon Lake, Texas
Trailer: 2015 19 "Past Tents", 2021 F150 Lariat 2.7L EB
Posts: 10,222
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steve dunham
Makes logical sense , Complicating something for little or no gain and at great expense never appealed to me. We run our refrigerator on propane and arrive at our campsite with a charged trailer battery.
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I've always run it on propane while towing, but last year I tried an experiment to see how it did on DC. Wouldn't cool at all. So it wouldn't make a difference for me if it ran down the battery or not - the fridge has to cool or it's just a storage box.
__________________
"You can't buy happiness, but you can buy an RV. And that is pretty close."
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12-25-2017, 01:01 PM
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#35
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Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Yellow Springs, Ohio
Trailer: 2013 Escape 19
Posts: 709
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steve dunham
Makes logical sense , Complicating something for little or no gain and at great expense never appealed to me. We run our refrigerator on propane and arrive at our campsite with a charged trailer battery.
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I am happy for you. When I began this topic, I was interested in having 12V operation as a viable option to sidestep all the possible issues being discussed at the time about unreliable propane operation while towing (things like blowing out, poor cooling flow, scorched structure behind the fridge, etc). I wanted to see if 12V operation could be an option with the RMD 8555 without a lot of hassle. I believe it is after simply increasing the size of the charge line. We have towed many thousands of miles with three different fiberglass campers using propane to power the fridge, but I didn't consider 12V operation as overly complicated nor a great expense. It wasn't all that effective with our Scamp or Casita, but I believe it's a reasonable alternative with the Escape. I switch to propane for the last few miles to be sure the battery is topped up if we're not going to have 120V available. I think it was worth the effort.
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12-25-2017, 03:05 PM
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#36
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Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: North of Danbury, Wisconsin
Trailer: 2018 Escape 21C
Posts: 3,033
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Parker
I am happy for you. When I began this topic, I was interested in having 12V operation as a viable option to sidestep all the possible issues being discussed at the time about unreliable propane operation while towing (things like blowing out, poor cooling flow, scorched structure behind the fridge, etc). I wanted to see if 12V operation could be an option with the RMD 8555 without a lot of hassle. I believe it is after simply increasing the size of the charge line. We have towed many thousands of miles with three different fiberglass campers using propane to power the fridge, but I didn't consider 12V operation as overly complicated nor a great expense. It wasn't all that effective with our Scamp or Casita, but I believe it's a reasonable alternative with the Escape. I switch to propane for the last few miles to be sure the battery is topped up if we're not going to have 120V available. I think it was worth the effort.
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I apologize if you took my post incorrectly . For me I have 2 main goals with this subject 1 ) When I arrive at my destination the stuff in my refrigerator is cold 2) My trailer battery is charged when I reach my destinatuon.
I have tried running my refrigerator on 12 VDC while traveling and neither one of my goals were achieved.
For me tearing into my new vehicle's or a new trailer's wiring to run a larger charge conductor or installing a larger alternator in my TV is something I see as an added expense and something I choose not to do.
Traveling on propane has served us well . If running on 12VDC
held some tangible improvement , I could see going that route.
Several of the new trailers we looked at recently only have 2 mode operation (120 VAC or Propane ) for the refrigerator .
There must be a reason ?
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12-25-2017, 06:13 PM
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#37
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Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Kelowna, British Columbia
Trailer: 2018 Escape 19
Posts: 2,716
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A 2 way fridge is cheaper than installing a 3 way...it could be all about the bottom line.
In other threads here, forum members have determined that many new tow vehicles do not have the wiring thickness to provide enough current to charge a depleted battery and provide enough current to run a fridge on 12 volts to keep it cool in hot weather.
Personally I am very happy that ETI has not cheaped out and does install a 3 way fridge.
This gives me the opportunity to run a separate charge wire since my tow vehicle did cheap out. Considering all the effort and expense people go through with solar etc...$50 in parts is not much for this modification. Typically we stay 2 or 3 days in one spot and the battery is depleted. We then only drive 1 to 3 hours to the next spot. Even with the fridge on propane it would be touch and go if the battery would get a full charge in that time with the thin wire in my tow.
Good luck in finding your answer...
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12-26-2017, 11:57 AM
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#38
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Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Oswego, New York
Trailer: 2017 Escape 21C, 2018 Ford F150
Posts: 5,363
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eggscape
A 2 way fridge is cheaper than installing a 3 way...it could be all about the bottom line.
In other threads here, forum members have determined that many new tow vehicles do not have the wiring thickness to provide enough current to charge a depleted battery and provide enough current to run a fridge on 12 volts to keep it cool in hot weather.
Personally I am very happy that ETI has not cheaped out and does install a 3 way fridge.
This gives me the opportunity to run a separate charge wire since my tow vehicle did cheap out. Considering all the effort and expense people go through with solar etc...$50 in parts is not much for this modification. Typically we stay 2 or 3 days in one spot and the battery is depleted. We then only drive 1 to 3 hours to the next spot. Even with the fridge on propane it would be touch and go if the battery would get a full charge in that time with the thin wire in my tow.
Good luck in finding your answer...
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Since a two way refrigerator still needs 12V for the electronics (or, if something like the Dometic RM 2510 with no electronics, the igniter), a propane line, and 120V wiring, I don't see much savings.
In any case, I still run the refrigerator on propane when driving. Even with two solar panels, I find it stays cooler with gas than on 12V...
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12-26-2017, 02:18 PM
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#39
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Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: NA, Arizona
Trailer: 2017 5.0TA
Posts: 549
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vermilye
In any case, I still run the refrigerator on propane when driving. Even with two solar panels, I find it stays cooler with gas than on 12V...
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Agree
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12-26-2017, 02:19 PM
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#40
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Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: North of Danbury, Wisconsin
Trailer: 2018 Escape 21C
Posts: 3,033
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tin
Agree
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DITTO : Agree 👍
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