Boards Frying From 14 volt Solar Charging?

[wackyburggeezer]

In our E19, the stud that Tom has been referring to and that Perry has a picture of (post #40), was not firmly connected to the WFCO housing. Either the inside nut or the outside jamb nut had backed off. Fixed by relocating the conductors to a buss and installing a jumper to the WFCO panel.

[Jack!]

Originally Posted by Centex

Just for grins, here's a scheme built on one of your previous diagrams from another post which would give you the whole enchilada

• WFCO acts as normal for charging / converting and 120VAC distribution
• 'Whole trailer' DC distribution regulated via an Orion DC2DC in Power Supply Mode

The added Progressive Dynamics PD6000 DC Distribution Panel is a lovely item, available from Randy at Best Converter for ~$60. There's a good chance you could fit it in your bench immediately adjacent to the WFCO and just transfer the DC distribution wires from one to the other.

Note that all of the points previously made by Tom/tdf-texas about (lack of) necessity of a 'whole trailer regulator', overall value, and failure points would still apply - only you can judge that for your situation.

That's a really slick solution. Also, liking/trusting a single point Orion. Will consider.
Just got the 5.0 trailer delivery. Took two days to get the 5.0 off the delivery tractor trailer, but that's a long story about a incompetent towing company. They had to go to another location & get a different towing company to get the 5.0 off the delivery truck. ETI delivery people were great dealing with this unusual circumstance & picked a second delivery spot 2 hours closer to us for the second day pickup. Second towing company was excellent. We suggested they move permanently to the second spot in the future for all FL deliveries. It's right at the junction of
I-75 & the FL Turnpike which is a better spot than Sanford with the Orlando traffic.
Got an initial look under the benches on the 5.0. There's a lot of room for 4 batteries and all the other added items.

[Great Eggstrications]

Originally Posted by Perryb67

How many here are desulfating their batteries at over 15 volts?

My old original 2015 solar panel and Samlex SCC as initially installed by ETI does equalization / desulfating charging at 15.1 volts. I had a nice long chat with Jeff Barron at Interstate, their Lab Manager / Engineering and Tech Services - a great guy - and he said their flooded 6 volt batteries should see 15.3 volts once every 30 days for 3 hours. Or once every 45 days when waiting for the sun to happen in Seattle would be ok. The Samlex equalization charge does 15.1 volts, so close enough. We typically see either 13.7 or 14.4 volts when non-equalization charging depending on which charging stage it's in. I kill all the 12 volt stuff using the battery disconnect switch during the equalization / desulfating charging, and generally keep it off while in storage. I have buck/boost voltage regulators on both MaxxFans, and plan on installing some for the furnace, fridge, and water heater 12 volt feeds 'real soon now'.

We've been surprisingly diligent about keeping to this schedule, and our original batteries are still going strong and they're into their 6th year of service, so no complaints here.

[bborzell]

Might this work for individual in line protection for appliances wanting to see less voltage than that produced by solar controllers?

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...k_ql_qh_dp_hza

[sofmerc]

Originally Posted by Jack!

That's a really slick solution. Also, liking/trusting a single point Orion. Will consider.
Just got the 5.0 trailer delivery. Took two days to get the 5.0 off the delivery tractor trailer, but that's a long story about a incompetent towing company. They had to go to another location & get a different towing company to get the 5.0 off the delivery truck. ETI delivery people were great dealing with this unusual circumstance & picked a second delivery spot 2 hours closer to us for the second day pickup. Second towing company was excellent. We suggested they move permanently to the second spot in the future for all FL deliveries. It's right at the junction of
I-75 & the FL Turnpike which is a better spot than Sanford with the Orlando traffic.
Got an initial look under the benches on the 5.0. There's a lot of room for 4 batteries and all the other added items.

Thats just disturbing about the incompetence in Sanford...I'm taking delivery there in early April... I would love to go to the other place at I75/Fl Turnpike instead..

[tdf-texas]

Originally Posted by bborzell

Might this work for individual in line protection for appliances wanting to see less voltage than that produced by solar controllers?

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...k_ql_qh_dp_hza

4 amps isn't going to power any of the at risk devices in the Escape - I would look for at least a 10 amp buck/boost regulator.

[bborzell]

Originally Posted by tdf-texas

4 amps isn't going to power any of the at risk devices in the Escape - I would look for at least a 10 amp buck/boost regulator.

Whoops! Looks like my read of the specs was clouded by the fancy display.

Thanks.

[Great Eggstrications]

I installed one of these on each of my MaxxFans:

https://www.amazon.com/Cllena-Automa...24&sr=8-2&th=1

They look like good quality, are fully potted, and seemingly have more than enough heat dissipation. My MaxxFans each draw 9.6 amps when starting up when set to full speed and while raising the rain hood, then settle down to something less than 4.5 amps when done raising and up to speed. I left them hooked up to a variable power supply for a few days, feeding them anywhere between 8 and 20 volts, and really saw no output problems - the non-adjustable output was a steady 12.2 volts, but that was with no load, so...?

I ran the fans for a few hours at various speeds and through multiple power- and hood-up and -down cycles, with no apparent issues.

But was not too happy to later see a couple of Amazon reviews of identical-looking units that talked about a buck down problem - the input voltage must exceed the desired 12 volt output by some amount in order to step down to the 12 volt output. Hmmmm....

I'm planning to install voltage regulators on the fridge (Dometic RM8551), furnace (AFSAD12), and water heater (SW6DE), but have been unable to find out what the maximum 12 volt current draw is for these appliances. Anybody know off the tops of their heads? TIA.

[John in Santa Cruz]

eventually, I'll get another 12/12-18 or -30 and put most of my DC fuse panel on that, lighting, fans, etc. set it for 12.8V or 13.2V or something DC output (not charging mode). the few heavy loads can be on their own fuses directly off the batteries (cigar plugs & my powerpole outlets are fused for 20 and 30 amp).

even if the 14.4 V doesn't blow stuff, I find the converter tends to make the unregulated interior LEDs flicker some. I replaced the corner 'captains' lights with regulated lamps, at least they don't flicker, but the overhead domes do.

[Jack!]

Originally Posted by sofmerc

Thats just disturbing about the incompetence in Sanford...I'm taking delivery there in early April... I would love to go to the other place at I75/Fl Turnpike instead..

I our case, the tow truck driver said they had done many bumper pulls, but have never seen or unloaded a 5th wheel trailer. There are two ways to unload a 5.0. One, is to use caster wheels on the landing gear and the other is to use skis on the landing gear. Tow driver believed the wheels could allow the 5.0 to go left or right and fall on the ground. He also believed using skies would snap off the landing gear legs either coming off the delivery truck or coming off his flat bed when he tilted his bed. Then the tow company owner said he "might" send another tow truck but we would have to pay him added costs.

Next day the second tow company has a huge concrete ramp. They used skis to slid the 5.0 to the tow truck. Then they backed the tow truck up to the high end of the ramp. No tilting required. I just backed my pickup up the ramp, hooked up, and drove away. Easy, peezy. ETI delivery folks handled all the issues and moved to a 2nd location 15 minutes from our home.
No worries about ETI handling things very well, if any problems surface. We provided them many details, so I'm sure they are on it & getting things corrected.

[Scambo1]

Why can’t you just install the buck after the batteries and before going to anything else, rather than multiple buck transformers?

https://www.amazon.com/Converter-Reg...55838945&psc=1

[oldwave]

Originally Posted by Scambo1

Why can’t you just install the buck after the batteries and before going to anything else, rather than multiple buck transformers?

https://www.amazon.com/Converter-Reg...55838945&psc=1

Maybe not enough amps

[drjp]

Originally Posted by tdf-texas

4 amps isn't going to power any of the at risk devices in the Escape - I would look for at least a 10 amp buck/boost regulator.

Your posts have really provided food for thought. I took delivery of a 5.0 with two BB batteries installed by ETI in September 2021.
1. I was about to order two Dinosaur UBI S boards, one for the Suburban water heater (following your much appreciated installation video) and the other for the Atwood furnace. But do you have time to give same pointers on the new board install for the Suburban, or is it an obvious install?
2. Thanks for the link to your installation instructions for the boost/buck for the Maxxfan. Just like another guy who got a September ‘21 5.0 delivered, I don’t know if the fan can take the higher voltage either.

Yours (and other knowledgeable forum members’) posts demonstrate why this is such a great forum!
Thanks,
Jonathan

[John in Santa Cruz]

Originally Posted by Scambo1

Why can’t you just install the buck after the batteries and before going to anything else, rather than multiple buck transformers?

https://www.amazon.com/Converter-Reg...df_B0978T3JKH/

the complication is, the primary charger is the AC converter module in the WFCO, this goes to the WFCO's fuse board, as does the battery, the two are directly connected by the pair of polarity protection fuses, and this goes to all the load fuses. you need it wired like charger -> battery -> DC-DC regulator -> load fuses.

plus there's some things you do NOT want on the DC-DC regulator, like the cigar lighter outlets as those can draw as much as 15 or 20 amps depending on what you plug into them

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by John in Santa Cruz

the complication is, the primary charger is the AC converter module in the WFCO, this goes to the WFCO's fuse board, as does the battery, the two are directly connected by the pair of polarity protection fuses, and this goes to all the load fuses. you need it wired like charger -> battery -> DC-DC regulator -> load fuses.

Right, but that's easy. You don't need to run extra wires back and forth to the battery, just connect the converter output to the input (from battery) side of the regulator... and of course the regulator output would go to the same place that the converter normally goes.

[John in Santa Cruz]

Originally Posted by Brian B-P

Right, but that's easy. You don't need to run extra wires back and forth to the battery, just connect the converter output to the input (from battery) side of the regulator... and of course the regulator output would go to the same place that the converter normally goes.

that will require a different fuse panel than the one provided with the various power centers I've worked with. or you would at least need one more AWG 8-ish wire running from the converter output to the outside back of the power center, where it connects to the battery side of this DC-DC, then use the original battery wire into the center to feed the DC-DC output back into the fuse panel.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by John in Santa Cruz

that will require a different fuse panel than the one provided with the various power centers I've worked with. or you would at least need one more AWG 8-ish wire running from the converter output to the outside back of the power center, where it connects to the battery side of this DC-DC, then use the original battery wire into the center to feed the DC-DC output back into the fuse panel.

Right - a couple of short pieces of wire.

[John in Santa Cruz]

yeah, but the converter output wire is hard attached to the converter main circuit board, and just barely long enough to reach the fuse panel, so you have to splice it you probably want to run the converter to one side of the battery disconnect switch, and also run that side to the DC-DC converter's input. the battery + terminal would run to the other side of the battery disconnect switch, and the DC-DC converter's output would run to the fuse board. the tow vehicle charging circuit, and the solar charging output should run to the battery + side so the battery is charging from those sources even when it is disconnected from the trailer loads and the AC converter. that most closely mimicks the way it was from the factory.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by John in Santa Cruz

you probably want to run the converter to one side of the battery disconnect switch, and also run that side to the DC-DC converter's input. the battery + terminal would run to the other side of the battery disconnect switch, and the DC-DC converter's output would run to the fuse board.

Yes, if the use/store (battery disconnect) switch is close to the converter, using the load side of that switch as a connection point would be convenient.

Originally Posted by John in Santa Cruz

the tow vehicle charging circuit, and the solar charging output should run to the battery + side so the battery is charging from those sources even when it is disconnected from the trailer loads and the AC converter. that most closely mimicks the way it was from the factory.

Yes, but if that's how they're wired from the factory (the solar charge controller is), those wires don't even get close to the converter and won't be affected by inserting a whole-trailer voltage regulator.

[bborzell]

I know that the subject of this thread specifies solar charging (@14+V) as a potential fryer of certain appliance circuit boards. But what about something like the Victron Orion that was installed in my ‘22 21C?

After remounting the Orion to the preferred vertical position, I began checking out 12V system voltage among the 110 converter, the solar converter and the DC-DC charger. When hooked up to the 30amp outlet at our storage location (at home), the 12V system routinely shows between 13.2 and 13.7 V.

When I unplug and run off solar, I see peaks around 14.4 V (hence the concern about that voltage going into a circuit board that appears to have a voltage input limit in the mid 13V range).

But, when I block solar access and shore power and hook the trailer to my tow vehicle and start the engine, I see similar outputs as what comes from the solar panels.

Given that any potentially vulnerable circuit board is at risk only when a switch has been thrown that allows 12V power to reach it, and that most folks are taught to turn off water heaters and furnaces while towing, perhaps those towing conditions are protective, though not necessarily thought out.

Am I missing something in assuming that if 14+V from solar panels are suspected of harming appliance circuit boards, then the same might be said for DC-DC chargers?