Can't turn off DC converter separately? Any ideas?

[Vermilye]

I do have to say the labeling on your breaker panel is confusing. I hope that the converter is connected to the same 15 amp breaker as the refrigerator, although the label says it is on the 30 amp half of the tandem breaker.

If it is on the 15 amp breaker, when you want to turn off the converter when charging the trailer with your 1000 watt generator, turn off the 15 amp breaker. The refrigerator should switch to gas if you have it on auto, or manually switch it to gas.

If it really is on the 30 amp breaker, that is wrong, unsafe, and it should be moved to the 15 amp breaker.

Hope this works...

[John in Santa Cruz]

Originally Posted by dstreight

...When the inverter is on it is supplying current to the WFCO and then activating the charger...

then its wired wrong. there should be a transfer switch driven by the inverter such that the WFCO only sees AC power from the power cord, and when you are on the inverter, the transfer switch disconnects the AC to the WFCO, only connecting the inverter output to the breakers that feed the onboard 120V appliances and outlets but specifically excluding the air conditioner.

Inverter off:
120VAC cord -> Power Center AC Input and breaker panel

inverter on:
power center and A/C inputs disconnected,
inverter output -> breakers for 120V outlets and microwave

it really sounds like you don't even want a power converter at all if you never plug your trailer into 120VAC. this of course means you'll need another way to charge and maintain the battery in storage.

[dstreight]

Originally Posted by John in Santa Cruz

then its wired wrong. there should be a transfer switch driven by the inverter such that the WFCO only sees AC power from the power cord, and when you are on the inverter, the transfer switch disconnects the AC to the WFCO, only connecting the inverter output to the breakers that feed the onboard 120V appliances and outlets but specifically excluding the air conditioner.

Inverter off:
120VAC cord -> Power Center AC Input and breaker panel

inverter on:
power center and A/C inputs disconnected,
inverter output -> breakers for 120V outlets and microwave

it really sounds like you don't even want a power converter at all if you never plug your trailer into 120VAC. this of course means you'll need another way to charge and maintain the battery in storage.

We seldom use shore power but not quite "never" so I intend to install a PD, or the one made by them for Go Power, auto transfer switch to cover all bases. Solar keeps the LFP battery charged/re-charged when not connected to the pull vehicle. When in tow mode I have a Sterling 60A DC-to-DC charger/isolator that keeps the LFP properly charged.

For my own ignorance I guess, installing the inverter without thinking it through; but saved by members of this valuable and educational forum! Much appreciation.

[dfandrews]

Thanks for the correction, Brian. My post#5 should have said Power Center, not Converter.
And regarding the potential for ambiguity, my breaker labeled 'frig' now says 'frig/converter', having just verified the 2 functions served by that breaker.

[steve dunham]

I know on my Scamp and Casita the power for the converter was not on a breaker by itself
IE ; It was on a breaker that supplied other loads in the trailer , so it seems to be a rather common practice

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by dstreight

Related: Our 15A was ordered as an all electric, by the previous and original owners, but without an inverter & water heater. I've since added an LFP bank and an inverter. We seldom stay at RV campgrounds and/or need shore power and I would like to eliminate the charger circuit of the WFCO 8955. When the inverter is on it is supplying current to the WFCO and then activating the charger...

That's a problem with your inverter installation. You have the inverter supplying the converter, which is not good (and not done by the optional Escape "all outlets" inverter installation).

Originally Posted by dstreight

^ its a Xantrex 3000w Freedom X inverter (no charger) with the resident 30A relay to serve when plugged in to shore power.

As Jon Vermilye explained, the transfer switch (which is built into this Xantrex unit) needs to switch only the AC power going to things which should get power from the inverter... which means not the converter, air conditioner, electric water heater, or 120 V refrigerator power. If what you are powering from the inverter is going to be on more than one circuit (and it should be if it includes a microwave), then you need the additional breaker panel which Jon described.

Originally Posted by dstreight

Turning the 15A side of the 15/30 main breaker does the trick but it also cuts power to microwave, 12v ceiling lights, etc.

Turning off the converter breaker (or any AC breaker) will not affect 12 V DC circuits, unless you don't have a battery or don't have the storage switch turned on.

It's unfortunate that the microwave is on the same breaker as the converter; as already suggested you could add a breaker and separate the converter and microwave circuits. The cable which feeds only the microwave outlet runs all the way to the power centre, so the separation should be easy. You don't have to open up the converter itself; the microwave and converter cables are probably joined to a "pigtail" leading to the breaker within the power centre cabinet.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by HawkeyeEZ

As has been mentioned by others, Escape Trailer mislabeled the 120V breakers in our WFCO WF-8955 load center. The MAIN breaker is just that, the input breaker to feed all the other breakers. Although "Converter" is penciled in the main breaker space, it's actually connected to the 15 amp breaker just below marked "Fridge."

Yes, that's actually incorrect, instead of (as seen in images from other owners' Escapes) just not really clear... but you have it sorted out.

[Ron in BC]

Originally Posted by Brian B-P

the microwave and converter cables are probably joined to a "pigtail" leading to the breaker within the power centre cabinet.

Yes, the pigtail and yellow wire nut is clearly visible in the photo I posted in post #3.

I'm tempted just to run the wire to the charger to a switch so that I can just turn it off. I hardly use it to charge my batteries as my solar does a great job keeping the batteries topped up. And that would avoid using a breaker as a switch.

Ron

[dstreight]

Ok, still pouring over all the information...and don't really understand how, in my set-up (battery provides all nominal 12v DC current when not plugged into shore power), how the converter passes through 12v DC from the inverter.

My understanding of what the WCHO 8955 converter/charger does: When connected to shore power, for all 12v DC appliances/lighting, the converter converts 120v A/C to 12v DC. But when shore power is not present then the converter is getting 120v from the inverter (12v DC to inverter; inverter converts/inverts it to 120v A/C and then the converter converts 120v A/C back to 12v DC).

So, assuming the above is not really how it all works, how does the converter pass through 12v DC without all the back/forth and associated losses/inefficiency?

[steve dunham]

Originally Posted by dstreight

Ok, still pouring over all the information...and don't really understand how, in my set-up (battery provides all nominal 12v DC current when not plugged into shore power), how the converter passes through 12v DC from the inverter.

My understanding of what the WCHO 8955 converter/charger does: When connected to shore power, for all 12v DC appliances/lighting, the converter converts 120v A/C to 12v DC. But when shore power is not present then the converter is getting 120v from the inverter (12v DC to inverter; inverter converts/inverts it to 120v A/C and then the converter converts 120v A/C back to 12v DC).

So, assuming the above is not really how it all works, how does the converter pass through 12v DC without all the back/forth and associated losses/inefficiency?

In that scenario, at least in the way I read it , there is too many conversions and unnecessary conversation loses .
When not on shore power , taking 12VDC power from the battery to power an inverter which converts the 12 VDC into 120 VAC which then powers your 120 VAC converter which then coverts the 120 VAC back to 12VDC seems redundant
and overly complicated.
If you are trying to charge your trailer battery by taking power from your trailer battery ,it won’t work

Our Escape has the whole trailer inverter and it works as designed with out all the added steps

[tdf-texas]

Originally Posted by dstreight

Ok, still pouring over all the information...and don't really understand how, in my set-up (battery provides all nominal 12v DC current when not plugged into shore power), how the converter passes through 12v DC from the inverter.

My understanding of what the WCHO 8955 converter/charger does: When connected to shore power, for all 12v DC appliances/lighting, the converter converts 120v A/C to 12v DC. But when shore power is not present then the converter is getting 120v from the inverter (12v DC to inverter; inverter converts/inverts it to 120v A/C and then the converter converts 120v A/C back to 12v DC).

So, assuming the above is not really how it all works, how does the converter pass through 12v DC without all the back/forth and associated losses/inefficiency?

The DC distribution panel in your WFCO is where the battery(s) and converter connect. Take a look at the pic - the top and bottom double lug terminals are where both the battery and converter attach in parallel. When the converter is not supplying power, the battery voltage takes over. Also, when the converter is supplying power, the battery is being charged through the same connection.

The inverter should NEVER be powering the converter. Take a look at the pdf in this link for details.
https://wfcoelectronics.com/wp-conte...Manual-web.pdf

Since you have a DC-DC converter to supply power from your TV and solar to charge the battery, you could remove/turn off the converter and have the battery charged only through those two devices. The battery being connected to the DC distribution panel would supply power to all the DC circuits connected to it. In this case, the top and bottom lugs would have connections only to the battery (the converter would be disabled/removed).

[tdf-texas]

Originally Posted by dstreight

Ok, still pouring over all the information...and don't really understand how, in my set-up (battery provides all nominal 12v DC current when not plugged into shore power), how the converter passes through 12v DC from the inverter.

My understanding of what the WCHO 8955 converter/charger does: When connected to shore power, for all 12v DC appliances/lighting, the converter converts 120v A/C to 12v DC. But when shore power is not present then the converter is getting 120v from the inverter (12v DC to inverter; inverter converts/inverts it to 120v A/C and then the converter converts 120v A/C back to 12v DC).

So, assuming the above is not really how it all works, how does the converter pass through 12v DC without all the back/forth and associated losses/inefficiency?

Maybe this would help. Below is a diagram of the wiring on my trailer.

[dstreight]

Thanks @tdf-texas; this explains everything and is just what I needed as our overall system requirement is nearly identical to your's. However our's didn't come from Escape, instead we're building it ad hoc.

I think the primary issue in my application/set-up is the Xantrex Freedom X's transfer feature; whereas I should have gone with just a straight inverter and allowed the WFCO transfer switch side to manage the current input side.

Back to the drawing board

[tdf-texas]

Originally Posted by dstreight

Thanks @tdf-texas; this explains everything and is just what I needed as our overall system requirements is nearly identical to your's. However our's didn't come from Escape, instead we're building it ad hoc.

I think the primary issue in my application/set-up is the Xantrex Freedom X's transfer feature; whereas I should have gone with just a straight inverter and allowed the WFCO transfer switch side to manage the current input side.

Back to the drawing board

You're welcome! I'm happy the electrical drawing was enough for you to determine what changes you needed.

Oh, my wiring isn't the same as Escape's either. I was not happy with the way they did wiring and changed the wiring in multiple places. I mention this for anyone else that thinks this is the same as the wiring in their trailer. It's the way I think it should be - not the way Escape did it.

This wiring diagram resolves all the electrical code violations and safety issues I (and others) discovered with the way Escape does the wiring.

[tdf-texas]

Originally Posted by dstreight

Back to the drawing board

You will need a subpanel to feed the circuits that get power from the inverter. They are inexpensive - be sure to have both an isolated neutral and ground bar installed in the box.

https://www.lowes.com/pd/Siemens-60-...Center/3129471

[dstreight]

^ All the 120v appliances in our 15A, namely the microwave, the induction burner, water heater are 120v only (plus all 120v outlets). The refrigerator is 12v only.

Could a leg, going from the outlet side of the transfer switch to the AC input side be utilized instead of the sub-panel since, in my application, either the AC will come from shore power or it will come from the inverter for all 120v appliances & outlets in the trailer?

[steve dunham]

Originally Posted by dstreight

^ All the 120v appliances in our 15A, namely the microwave, the induction burner, water heater are 120v only (plus all 120v outlets). The refrigerator is 12v only.

Could a leg, going from the outlet side of the transfer switch to the AC input side be utilized instead of the sub-panel since, in my application, either the AC will come from shore power or it will come from the inverter for all 120v appliances & outlets in the trailer?

If you add the red jumper wire from the output side of the transfer switch to the imput side of the converter panels main breaker , you are creating a dangerous condition
The two systems ( Utility - Inverter ) have to be electrically isolated
You have to make sure that it is impossible to backfeed Inverter voltage into the utility system and it can not be subject to human error
This is no different than if you have a backup generator, you don’t want the generator power to be backfed into the utility lines , endangering the lives of utility workers .
Also with the red jumper shown in your drawing you are back feeding your trailers power cord so if you are not plugged in to a pedestal the prongs on your power cord would be hot and exposed
There is away to accomplish your goal using two separate breakers in the converter panel but that method is subject to human error so I won’t go any farther

[tdf-texas]

Originally Posted by dstreight

^ All the 120v appliances in our 15A, namely the microwave, the induction burner, water heater are 120v only (plus all 120v outlets). The refrigerator is 12v only.

Could a leg, going from the outlet side of the transfer switch to the AC input side be utilized instead of the sub-panel since, in my application, either the AC will come from shore power or it will come from the inverter for all 120v appliances & outlets in the trailer?

Steve is correct in that the method you are proposing is dangerous and not recommended. A small sub panel is about $20 and is the correct way to have two power sources feeding the circuits.

[Vermilye]

The only safe & proper way to use the inverter transfer switch is to wire the output to the circuits you want to be on when the inverter is on. Adding a sub panel with a couple of breakers and a 30 amp breaker to the WFCO panel feeding the other side of the transfer switch is the right way. Trying to apply 120V from the inverter to the entire WFCO panel is asking for problems, and unsafe.

Your 3000 watt inverter is capable of supplying 25 amps, more than the wiring to your existing branch circuits (the microwave, the induction burner, water heater), which are probably wired with #14 wire & 15 amp breakers. If you are going to use the output of the inverter to power any of these circuits, you need a sub panel anyway so you can provide 15 amp breakers to protect the wiring.

[steve dunham]

I have used a 30 amp Commercial / Industrial grade 3 way switch as a transfer switch in similar applications. If the switch is wired properly then only one source of power ( Utility or Inverter) would be allowed to feed the the converter panel at any one time .. It is a simple , cheap and easy to install transfer switch

We were camping at a county park in Northern Mn
One of the electrical pedestals needed work so the workman shutdown the power to that loop and started the repair . All of a sudden the workman lets out a yelp along with a couple of choice cuss words . Turns out one of the trailer owners on that loop , not knowing why his power was off , turned on his homemade , jury rigged inverter system. His inverter power was being back fed through his trailers supply cord , into the pedestal and energizing the whole loop .
Luckily no one was hurt