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Old 12-01-2020, 05:27 PM   #21
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If you choose to use both a rooftop panel and a portable panel at the same time be aware that the best results occur when they are identical. Here is a calculator to see what results you have mixing different wattage. Basically the lowest wattage panel drags down the higher wattage model. See this link
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Old 12-01-2020, 05:38 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by AndNeitherDoI View Post
I had the Zamp port added and the one question that may confuse you is if you want it wired to the Escape solar controller. If yes, then you just need to find a 12v solar panel without a controller. If no, then you'll need to get a solar panel and controller for that panel (usually sold together and more expensive).



I opted for the Zamp port to be wired to the Escape solar controller. I purchased a Renogy 100w folding suitcase panel (without controller), an MC4 to SAE connector with polarity reverser adapter, and 15 ft MC4 extension cords. I just open the panel, plug it in to the Zamp port, and it charges. No worries. When it's all connected, it stays together. To lose the polarity reversing adapter, you'd have to lose the solar panel.


I'm full timing and have solar on the roof. in the summer months, the roof was sufficient to keep the batteries charged. Now there is less time for the sun, I absolutely depend on the suitcase panel to charge.
I took some pictures so you can see how easy it is.

The numbered picture is labeled for this:
1. The MC4 extension cord. This goes to the panel as it only has about 1’ coming directly out of the panel. Renogy (maker of my solar panel) recommends no longer than 20’ and I have 15’ because that was in stock at the time.

2. The MC4 to SAE connectors cost about $10 and came with #3 included.

3. The polarity reversing adapter. One adapter broke because I use it a lot and they are cheap. A pack of five cost $10.

All three parts stay connected and live inside the folded solar panel.

Reminder this is a zamp port wired to the existing solar controller. No fussing with reversing the wires or asking Escape to wire it differently.
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Old 12-01-2020, 05:51 PM   #23
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Reminder this is a zamp port wired to the existing solar controller. No fussing with reversing the wires or asking Escape to wire it differently.
Just curious, why you do not want to reverse the wires coming from the Zamp port? I doesn't sound like you aren't using Zamp panels and switching the Zamp port wires at the solar controller takes about 10 minutes at most.
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Old 12-01-2020, 06:14 PM   #24
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Just curious, why you do not want to reverse the wires coming from the Zamp port? I doesn't sound like you aren't using Zamp panels and switching the Zamp port wires at the solar controller takes about 10 minutes at most.
Excellent question. When I started with our trailer, I too was a complete novice with solar & electrical. I set it up the way that was easiest for me then.

Now I know more and could wire it myself. Next trailer I will!
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Old 12-01-2020, 06:33 PM   #25
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Just for clarity. We have three 15' Zamp SAE cords, allowing us to have 15', 30' or 45' of wire. So far we've used 30' the two times we needed the panel. Is there a loss with 30 or 45'? Yes, but the loss is not that much, however the loss is 100% with only 15' because you still may be in shade so your panel is worthless. The object of portable is to get your panel where the sun is shining.

Renogy screwed up when they sent us two cables 20' in length, but because they both had bare wires on one end we could only use one 20' wire. Since the panel was still in the shade despite the 20' cable we got zero watts to the controller. Yes, 20' or less is best, but when your sunny spot is over 30' away that third wire still will work wonders.

Renogy sent us the identical cables with bare wires the second time, so we gave up with Renogy, sent all their cables back, and purchased Zamp cables.

Enjoy,

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Old 12-01-2020, 06:38 PM   #26
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dcboyd makes a good point. In fact, it behooves you to go over your last build sheet item by item to be sure everything got on there that you wanted. It's only happened a few times, but folks have been disappointed when an item has been left off somewhere between the first build sheet and the last.
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Old 12-02-2020, 01:12 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by fudge_brownie View Post
... Here is a calculator to see what results you have mixing different wattage. Basically the lowest wattage panel drags down the higher wattage model. See this link
That's not true in general; the linked article misses the relevant case. If connected in parallel, panels only need to be compatible in voltage; they can have very different power ratings (due to different sizes) and neither will affect the other, as long as they "agree" on voltage. The article explains the problem with connecting panels of different voltages in parallel.

If the panels do have different characteristic voltages, the calculation in that web page slightly exaggerates the power loss by assuming that current output is independent of voltage.
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Old 12-02-2020, 05:00 PM   #28
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That's not true in general; the linked article misses the relevant case. If connected in parallel, panels only need to be compatible in voltage;
...
I would go so far as to say even the 17 vs 19 volt example misses many points. For example: A Schottky diode in the + leg of the lower panel reduces the theoretical loss to 0. Also, in real life, a heavy load such as a battery needing its morning charge would drag down the 19V panel to 17V, at which point they are equal. And another thought, if a 17V panel is going to drag down a 19V panel, then the assumption is that the lower panel acts as a resistor which is hardly likely. Reverse voltage loss in sunny silicone does not follow E=IR. (Maybe in the dark??)

My bottom line - if someone gave me a 17V panel gratis I would not hesitate to add it to my roof mounted 19V panel in parallel.
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Old 12-09-2020, 02:11 PM   #29
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I am not an electrical or refrigeration expert but I can tell you what has worked well for me. Our 2018 Escape 19 has dual 6V batteries mounted in the outside front storage box and I connect a portable 100W solar panel (Coleman from Costco) to the batteries. I connect
the controller that came with the solar panel to the batteries with the supplied connectors that came with the panel. I leave the controller connected and in the storage box and simply plug the panel cable into the controller when needed. There a several gaps in the lid of the storage box that I run the panel cable through so I can close the lid. The lights on the controller tell me if it is connected correctly and if it is charging. We camped for 5 days in November without shore power in cloudy rainy west coast weather and never had an issue with power. I do not have roof solar or a zamp port. My thinking is that solar panel and battery technology are rapidly improving so stay flexible and don't drill holes and permanently mount something that you may want to change in two years.

We have the Dometic 3 way fridge and must be one of the lucky owners as it has worked flawlessly since new. We do have a remote temperature monitor in the fridge so we can monitor how well the fridge is doing in all conditions. I put the fridge on 12v when travelling, propane when camping and AC when at home. I am not a great fan of Dometic products and in particular the furnace and its poor sail switch design but so far the fridge works fine.
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Old 12-09-2020, 07:56 PM   #30
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Our 2018 Escape 19 has dual 6V batteries mounted in the outside front storage box and I connect a portable 100W solar panel (Coleman from Costco) to the batteries. I connect
the controller that came with the solar panel to the batteries with the supplied connectors that came with the panel. I leave the controller connected and in the storage box and simply plug the panel cable into the controller when needed. There a several gaps in the lid of the storage box that I run the panel cable through so I can close the lid. The lights on the controller tell me if it is connected correctly and if it is charging. We camped for 5 days in November without shore power in cloudy rainy west coast weather and never had an issue with power. I do not have roof solar or a zamp port. My thinking is that solar panel and battery technology are rapidly improving so stay flexible and don't drill holes and permanently mount something that you may want to change in two years.

We have the Dometic 3 way fridge and must be one of the lucky owners as it has worked flawlessly since new. We do have a remote temperature monitor in the fridge so we can monitor how well the fridge is doing in all conditions. I put the fridge on 12v when travelling, propane when camping and AC when at home. I am not a great fan of Dometic products and in particular the furnace and its poor sail switch design but so far the fridge works fine.
Nice report Dennis, thank you.

I think (especially when we are new and building our trailer) that we see so much on here about some items and we fail to realize that many of our fellow posters use their trailers much differently than we ever will. We think we need this and that. ie extra solar panels, lithium, heat pads, accumulators for a quieter water pump(on my trailer the water pump is in the back under the dinette and our bed is in the front - my hearing isn't what it was, but I do not hear the water pump at night but those who sleep above their water pump is apparently a different story), battery fill systems, built in electric heaters, bed moisture systems or different mattresses, locks and more locks, opening up more space and I could on and on.

I am not trying to put anyone down, I just think that newbies need to realize that we are all different, what you see others doing may never come into play for them.

It has been said on on this forum over and over that a basic trailer will fill the majority of owners needs. A minority of owners needs/want or require major changes, options, mods that most of us would not come to need. Then we can add to that equation wants vs needs. Wants can be very important to some of us and they can come across as needs. If you read enough posts you'll find people who have owned their units for years and they post that they have never used this or that option.

In regard to solar here is our story.
We have the ETI solar setup (1 panel, dual batteries, inverter wired to all outlets). We have camped in all conditions, sunny, cold ie: 20s F, cloudy, heavy tree cover etc.
We have used our inverter extensively, ie: laptop computer with two additional screens, another laptop, our instant pot, toaster, phone charging, hair dryer, 120 volt television.

On a trip February 2020 was the only time we have gotten our batteries down to the 50% level. This was in Minnesota after about 18 hours, in 20 degree weather, furnace running, laptop with 2 additional screens (6 hrs), another laptop (2hrs) television (2 hrs), lights. This was overnight and then into a very overcast grey day, we had some (minimal) input from solar due to it being both overcast and a winter day.

This works for me, I doubt we will likely need to go beyond this, but if I lowered the life, or destroyed my lead acid batteries it wouldn't be that serious. We made it home that night but had we not, we would have traveled that day and subject to recharge we would have been very conservative on our electrical usage that night.

YMWV so don't buy into someone else's. When analyzing for your trailer ask
questions that clarify if this is something that would be beneficial for you .
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Old 12-30-2020, 09:51 PM   #31
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Zamp or SAE how is it wired to the battery?

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Originally Posted by tdf-texas View Post
I installed a SAE solar port myself - one 3/4" hole cut through the fiberglass and four screws. I sealed the flange with Proflex to keep the water out.

It was so easy to do and cheap. $11 for the port and it came with the screws.

https://www.amazon.com/dstfuy-Weathe...843047&sr=8-16
So, we have to submit our finalized build sheet on 1/19/21 for our 5.0TA. For the record, ETI will still install a zamp port for $100 but they will just cool the wires as described above. So this has not changed from 2018. I think you can get the Zamp ports for under $20 everywhere they are sold. We sold our Casita this summer and it had the Zamp port and we kept the 230W Zamp suitcase. It worked really really well for our purposes.

With that said, how are the coiled wires connected to the batteries? Does it need to be fused? What size fusing? What type of connector/splice into the battery terminals? Any chance someone might have a picture of the wiring from the inside of the Zamp port to the batteries? We will have the 2, 6V batteries.
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Old 12-31-2020, 02:50 PM   #32
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If you had a rooftop solar panel best practices say they should be fused and have a kill switch installed. Since yours are portable the solar feed can be disabled by disconnecting the panel, something hard to do with a roof top panel. Probably not a need for a kill switch. I have one on my portable, it is a bit safer because you can be certain the panel is disconnected. It also gives you more control at the location of the solar controller. I would certainly recommend a fuse.

To connect wires I used a hydraulic crimper to make everything to size. For wire I purchased a set of quality jumper cables and threw away the clamps. Probably 8 gauge as my equivalent to your Zamp only handled that size. My fuses were Bussmann BP/CBC-40HB Type I 40 Amp Circuit Breaker with Two 10-32 Threaded Studs. Six years ago when I did this there was not the body of knowledge on DIY solar. The content on the forum has evolved. Others may have "more modern" choices.
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Old 12-31-2020, 03:56 PM   #33
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Any conductor connected to the battery should be protected by an overcurrent device, such as a fuse or circuit breaker (although the breakaway circuit for the brakes routinely violates that). In the case of a connection to an inlet port for a panel equipped with its own controller, that means a fuse as close as practical to the battery in the positive wire, sized no higher in capacity than the wire; of course this will be higher than the panel's maximum current output. That way, if something shorts out the wires to the battery (something across the inlet port terminals, an incorrect cable, damage to the wires or connector...) the current is interrupted so it doesn't cause the wire to fail (starting fires, etc).
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Old 12-31-2020, 04:46 PM   #34
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Any conductor connected to the battery should be protected by an overcurrent device, such as a fuse or circuit breaker (although the breakaway circuit for the brakes routinely violates that). In the case of a connection to an inlet port for a panel equipped with its own controller, that means a fuse as close as practical to the battery in the positive wire, sized no higher in capacity than the wire; of course this will be higher than the panel's maximum current output. That way, if something shorts out the wires to the battery (something across the inlet port terminals, an incorrect cable, damage to the wires or connector...) the current is interrupted so it doesn't cause the wire to fail (starting fires, etc).
I've been using these fuse holders anytime I have to connect solar to the batteries. Cheap insurance!
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

For the positive wire from the batteries to the WFCO fuse panel, these work better.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1
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Old 12-31-2020, 06:14 PM   #35
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Any conductor connected to the battery should be protected by an overcurrent device, such as a fuse or circuit breaker (although the breakaway circuit for the brakes routinely violates that). In the case of a connection to an inlet port for a panel equipped with its own controller, that means a fuse as close as practical to the battery in the positive wire, sized no higher in capacity than the wire; of course this will be higher than the panel's maximum current output. That way, if something shorts out the wires to the battery (something across the inlet port terminals, an incorrect cable, damage to the wires or connector...) the current is interrupted so it doesn't cause the wire to fail (starting fires, etc).
So, in the case of a panel array, the 'relatively large' wire from the battery to the controller should be protected appropriate to that wire gauge near the battery, got it .

Often (typically?) there's 'relatively smaller' wires from the controller to the individual panels in the array. Should each of those 'relatively smaller' (+) wires be protected at the 'controller end' against potentially high current from the battery, or does something within the controller prevent battery-level-current from flowing through those wires if there's a short between the controller and the panel(s)?

Asked in recognition that those 'relatively small wires' may present a fire-risk situation at a much lower current than might timely trip/blow the protective device near the battery, it being 'sized' for a larger wire?
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Old 12-31-2020, 09:00 PM   #36
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Often (typically?) there's 'relatively smaller' wires from the controller to the individual panels in the array. Should each of those 'relatively smaller' (+) wires be protected at the 'controller end' against potentially high current from the battery, or does something within the controller prevent battery-level-current from flowing through those wires if there's a short between the controller and the panel(s)?
It seems unlikely that any controller malfunction could allow current from the battery to the panels; if it could, then it would make sense to fuse against that. Nothing that happens to the wires between the controller and the panels is going to cause more current flow than the panel short-circuit current (ISC), which isn't much more than normal current at maximum power, and won't be high enough to be an issue for the wires.
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Old 01-05-2021, 09:23 PM   #37
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How many 12v/usb outlets would one want. thx
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Old 01-06-2021, 07:54 AM   #38
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How many 12v/usb outlets would one want. thx
We installed:
Outside, next to entry door - use it more than we though
Foot of the bed - one on each side, used every day
Entry pedestal - used quite often
Dinette under bench - poor spot, wires are always in the way
The spot we missed was the dinette upper cabinet next to the fridge. The cables would have been up, out of the way. I'll be installing one there this winter. Since I'm installing the box it will be inside the cabinet, in the corner next to the fridge and cabinet door, so wires will be hidden.

Enjoy,

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Old 01-06-2021, 09:01 AM   #39
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Perry, that is a good list of locations. Glad that you mention the one under the dinette, is is probably in the worst location. One issue there is, on the 21 for certain, no room for it, but next to the rear wall. The batteries and 120 volt outlet take up so much interior bench access.

I did do one thing right on my build, it was to add an unused 12 volt wire that ran behind the refrigerator from the WFCO to the front of the camper. It gave me a source of 12 volt power to the front without tapping into some other wire. I have used it to my great satisfaction. I would recommend to all planning their build that they consider having at least one spare 12 volt wire giving consideration to the most difficult area to run a wire (behind refrigerator or over entry door).
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Old 01-06-2021, 10:37 AM   #40
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12 volt outlets

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Perry, that is a good list of locations. Glad that you mention the one under the dinette, is is probably in the worst location. One issue there is, on the 21 for certain, no room for it, but next to the rear wall. The batteries and 120 volt outlet take up so much interior bench access.

I did do one thing right on my build, it was to add an unused 12 volt wire that ran behind the refrigerator from the WFCO to the front of the camper. It gave me a source of 12 volt power to the front without tapping into some other wire. I have used it to my great satisfaction. I would recommend to all planning their build that they consider having at least one spare 12 volt wire giving consideration to the most difficult area to run a wire (behind refrigerator or over entry door).
olt
What are all these 12 volt outlets used for ? thx!
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