Curious About Propane Refilling

[barry]

Tanks are suppose to be filled to 80% to allow for expansion. Best way to find out if it is overfilled is to weigh it. The tare weight is stamped on the tank. The 20lb tanks on the Escape have a tare of about 16.7 lbs add 16lbs (80%full) to that to get what the full weight should be. In Canada this is how the tanks are filled at the filling station but when I go to the States they just undo the safety valve slightly with a screwdriver and when the tank gets to 80% capacity the propane starts to exit the tank at which point they stop filling it and do up the valve.
Barry

[rbryan4]

They will safely hold 20 lbs of propane. That's why they're called 20 lb tanks. 20 lbs DOES allow for expansion. That translates to 4.7 gallons of propane. When I fill my dead empty tanks they hold 4.7 gallons almost exactly. The 5.x number is definitely an overfilled tank.

Be glad however that you do the fill instead of that joke called tank exchange. Those companies routinely under fill their tanks with only 15 lbs - then they brag about it as a feature even though they're ripping you off.

[Fox hunt]

so it should weight 32.7 after filling correct?

[rbryan4]

Originally Posted by Fox hunt

so it should weight 32.7 after filling correct?

The "tare weight" (TW) is stamped on the tank collar. Add that to 20 lbs for an approximate full weight. Most empty tanks have a tare weight of around 17 lbs, so it's more like 37 lbs full instead of 32.

[Jim Bennett]

Originally Posted by rbryan4

Be glad however that you do the fill instead of that joke called tank exchange. Those companies routinely under fill their tanks with only 15 lbs - then they brag about it as a feature even though they're ripping you off.

I hate doing that, and have had to when it was my only option. You then end up with a crappy tank too.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by Mike Lewis

The man said the pump would not let it overfill.

The pump obviously has no way to know how full the cylinder (tank) is, so this guy's statement is idiotic as it stands. It was probably intended to be a statement that the Overfill Prevention Device (OPD) in the cylinder (which is a float-operated valve) will not let the pump overfill the cylinder; however, the OPD is a backup safety device, not designed or approved to be used as the primary method to determine when the cylinder is full (as explained at the beginning of the thread).

[santacruzer]

Originally Posted by rbryan4

They will safely hold 20 lbs of propane. That's why they're called 20 lb tanks. 20 lbs DOES allow for expansion. That translates to 4.7 gallons of propane. When I fill my dead empty tanks they hold 4.7 gallons almost exactly. The 5.x number is definitely an overfilled tank.

Be glad however that you do the fill instead of that joke called tank exchange. Those companies routinely under fill their tanks with only 15 lbs - then they brag about it as a feature even though they're ripping you off.

It's a little off-topic, but I've found some value with tank exchanges. We use a number of 20 pound tanks at our deer camp, for cooking, showers, heating, etc., and have ended up with some that A: have gone beyond certification, B: have a little rust on them (which causes concern at some places), or C: don't have an OPD device. It's far easier and cheaper to do an exchange than to spend good money to have a tank recertified, or to retrofit an OPD. You get a newer tank, and maybe it's not as full as you'd like, but you're still ahead of the game. The outfit doing the exchange has to bring the tanks up to standards anyway.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by santacruzer

It's far easier and cheaper to do an exchange than to spend good money to have a tank recertified, or to retrofit an OPD. You get a newer tank, and maybe it's not as full as you'd like, but you're still ahead of the game.

On the other hand, an exchange from these places is so expensive that if you get a 5-year-old beat-up (but legal) tank from them it may be cheaper to just by a new empty tank every ten years.

Certainly recertification and valve upgrades no longer make any economic sense.

[santacruzer]

Originally Posted by Brian B-P

On the other hand, an exchange from these places is so expensive that if you get a 5-year-old beat-up (but legal) tank from them it may be cheaper to just by a new empty tank every ten years.

Certainly recertification and valve upgrades no longer make any economic sense.

Down here, an exchange is about US $25, which is about what it costs me to fill a legal tank that's completely empty. Buying a new, empty tank and then filling it costs much more than that, and I still have to tote the old one to the landfill recycle.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by santacruzer

Down here, an exchange is about US $25, which is about what it costs me to fill a legal tank that's completely empty.

Wow, are you paying a lot for a refill! About twice as much as here. Of course, from most exchange services the exchange tank isn't really full...

[escape artist]

Originally Posted by barry

Tanks are suppose to be filled to 80% to allow for expansion. Best way to find out if it is overfilled is to weigh it. The tare weight is stamped on the tank. The 20lb tanks on the Escape have a tare of about 16.7 lbs add 16lbs (80%full) to that to get what the full weight should be. In Canada this is how the tanks are filled at the filling station but when I go to the States they just undo the safety valve slightly with a screwdriver and when the tank gets to 80% capacity the propane starts to exit the tank at which point they stop filling it and do up the valve.
Barry

Hi: barry... There is an alternative. You could do as some on the forum and just sell the trailer and buy a new one with full tanks!!! Alf
escape artist N.S. of Lake Erie

[barry]

Originally Posted by rbryan4

They will safely hold 20 lbs of propane. That's why they're called 20 lb tanks. 20 lbs DOES allow for expansion. That translates to 4.7 gallons of propane. When I fill my dead empty tanks they hold 4.7 gallons almost exactly. The 5.x number is definitely an overfilled tank.

Be glad however that you do the fill instead of that joke called tank exchange. Those companies routinely under fill their tanks with only 15 lbs - then they brag about it as a feature even though they're ripping you off.

At every propane station I have been to in BC all have signs saying that they are only legally allowed to fill tanks to 80% of capacity so they must be designed to take 25lbs if this is the case. I always assumed that it was 80% of the 20lbs. I just had mine filled at Costco they were completely empty and they put in 17.8 litres which equates to 4.7 US gallons. They put the tanks on a scale and fill them by weight but charge you by the litre, strange!


The complete fill from empty was $12.64 or 71 cents a litre, Costco Abbotsford is the cheapest place in the Lower Mainland to fill propane tanks for anyone heading through the Sumas border, they are about 2 km north of the border crossing.


Barry

[barry]

Originally Posted by escape artist

Hi: barry... There is an alternative. You could do as some on the forum and just sell the trailer and buy a new one with full tanks!!! Alf
escape artist N.S. of Lake Erie

Mighty expensive propane if you ask me Alf. I've gone through about 8 tanks this year so far which equates to 4 new trailers!

Barry

[Mike Lewis]

The most I've paid for propane was at a Petro-Canada in Jasper, Alberta, in May 2017; it worked out to $5.62 US per gallon. The least I've paid was in June 2015 at the Sedro-Woolley Country Store in Sedro-Woolley, Washington. There it was $1.29 per gallon.

Since Sedro is south of Sumas, you might want to fill up there if you are heading south after crossing the border. I think there is an Arco refinery in Anacortes, which might have something to do with low propane prices in Sedro-Woolley. I've seen Arco gasoline prices twenty cents lower than the competition in that area.

[rbryan4]

Originally Posted by barry

At every propane station I have been to in BC all have signs saying that they are only legally allowed to fill tanks to 80% of capacity so they must be designed to take 25lbs if this is the case. I always assumed that it was 80% of the 20lbs. I just had mine filled at Costco they were completely empty and they put in 17.8 litres which equates to 4.7 US gallons.

I've no knowledge of BC laws concerning propane, but what I can tell you is that a 20 lb tank is designed to hold 20 lbs. 80 percent of that would be 16 lbs. The 4.7 US gallons they filled yours with at Costco equates to 20 lbs, so their reference to "80 percent" may mean that 20 lbs represents 80 percent of the tank's actual volume. Sort of a strange way of putting it since a 20 lb tank takes 20 lbs of propane.

[cpaharley2008]

Originally Posted by barry

Mighty expensive propane if you ask me Alf. I've gone through about 8 tanks this year so far which equates to 4 new trailers!

Barry

I understood you.....

[Bobbito]

Further to Barry’s Sumas/Abbotsford Costco post, the savings from buying our propane there easily pays for our yearly Costco membership. If I gas up the truck there I save even more. Also, unlike Petro-Canada they only charge for the amount they put in.
Bob K

[escape artist]

Hi: All... My farm fuel dealer always makes a propane refill end up in round figures. I know round figures.
1 Bbq Cylinder refill. $15.04 plus $1.96 tx. = $17.00. It's up to me to know that it's empty and my tanks are in perfect shape too. Alf
escape artist N.S. of Lake Erie

[barry]

Originally Posted by Bobbito

Further to Barry’s Sumas/Abbotsford Costco post, the savings from buying our propane there easily pays for our yearly Costco membership. If I gas up the truck there I save even more. Also, unlike Petro-Canada they only charge for the amount they put in.
Bob K

Cheap propane at Costco is why we bought a membership again as having to pay to shop somewhere doesn't really sit well with me but like you Bob it pays for our membership. Propane prices are notoriously higher in Canada than the States, while in Bend Oregon this past spring I filled my 10lb BBQ tank up at a farm supply store right in town in the Old Mill District for $3, can't beat that!


It's getting harder and harder to find filling stations now with all the propane swap places around now. We just got back from the Island and had a really hard time finding places to get our tanks filled, I filled that same 10lb tank at the Co-op over there and it cost me $15, ouch!


I'm going to Google cheap propane in the areas I'm going to this fall and keep a list as the price varies significantly but I've found in the past that usually the farm supply places are the cheapest. We dry camp a lot in the shoulder season and that equates to using about a tank a week.
Barry

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by barry

At every propane station I have been to in BC all have signs saying that they are only legally allowed to fill tanks to 80% of capacity so they must be designed to take 25lbs if this is the case. I always assumed that it was 80% of the 20lbs.

No - the design propane capacity of a "20 pound" tank is indeed 20 pounds. That is 80% of the volume of the tank, which would hold 25 pounds of propane if filled completely with propane. The sign does not say that they are required to fill tanks to only 80% of their designed capacity, it says that the maximum fill is 80% of the tank volume. The tank volume (either as an actual volume in litres or U.S. gallons, or as a "water capacity" which is the weight of water which would completely fill the tank) is stamped on every propane tank... so you can read any of your tanks and confirm that 80% of the tank's volume corresponds to 20 pounds of propane. If you can't make sense of the marking, just post what you see and I can interpret them.

Originally Posted by barry

I just had mine filled at Costco they were completely empty and they put in 17.8 litres which equates to 4.7 US gallons. They put the tanks on a scale and fill them by weight but charge you by the litre, strange!

The density of propane is 0.493 kg per litre, or 4.11 pounds per U.S. liquid gallon, so that's about 8.8 kilograms or 19.3 pounds... a bit under as full as permitted.

People like to see volumes for liquids, so propane is sold by the litre. Just as with gasoline, the translation between volume and mass (weight) is based on standard conditions of temperature and pressure.