Diesel fueled space heater

[PM15283]

Planning to add the above to our 5.0ta, but undecided between a 5kw and an 8kw. Experienced advice?

Hoping to mount unit on rear bumper and feed warm air tube into the dinette area.

Phil

[Brian B-P]

The stock furnace is 3.5 kW unit (assuming that's input heat rate), so the 5 kW seems more appropriate than the 8 kW.

[Oldtimer]

Curious question what the run time on these heaters

David

[dstreight]

As previously noted, we have the Espar Airtronic S2 D2L in our 15A. The rated output is 2.2kW/7500BTU. This is about perfect amount of heater for the little 15A if not more than we need for any climate conditions we have encountered, including overnight lows in the low 20F's. This heater would be perfect in an Escape 17 or even a 19 with dual outlets configured.

You don't want to size these too large for a given space as you want the diesel heater to run 'hot' rather than 'cool' to alleviate any potential for buildup of carbon within the combustion chamber.

We have a quick to deploy shower privy we use for showers and a portable 'Loo. I installed a "Y" duct fitting to allow diverting of hot air from the Espar to the nylon privy via a 2-1/2" collapsible flex hose. We just used it for the first time on a quick Thanksgiving holiday get-away and it worked fantastically for heating the privy on what otherwise would have been a chilly shower. Wife approved!

I purchased our unit from Heatso and received excellent pre-sale customer service/advice as I too, was pondering whether or not I should get the next larger output unit. Glad I didn't.

FWIW.

[PM15283]

Originally Posted by Brian B-P

The stock furnace is 3.5 kW unit (assuming that's input heat rate), so the 5 kW seems more appropriate than the 8 kW.

Thank you, Brian B-P. Just the info I was looking for.

[TTMartin]

Originally Posted by PM15283

Planning to add the above to our 5.0ta, but undecided between a 5kw and an 8kw. Experienced advice?

Hoping to mount unit on rear bumper and feed warm air tube into the dinette area.

Phil

Why?

Escape trailers use a propane furnace. This means the combustion process is separated from the interior of the trailer. Combustion air is drawn if from outside the trailer and then exhausted outside the trailer. The interior air is heated using a heat exchanger. They do NOT use a catalytic propane heater (Wave), where the products of combustion are exhausted inside the trailer.

What do you feel you are gaining / achieving by using a diesel unit?

I have an Espar D2 in my Sprinter van which is great. It runs off the Sprinter's diesel fuel tank. But, I wouldm't want to mess with one in my Escape 19.

[Ron in BC]

The diesel heaters have the ability to take in outside air and exhaust to the exterior.

I've read up on them out of interest. Especially the comparisons to Espar et. Basically the Chinese ones pretty much copy the Espars etc. only some of the items are noticeably thinner metal. But they seem to be very good value.

If I did a lot of cold weather stuff, like using the trailer as a winter ski cabin, I'd leave my propane furnace in place and mount a diesel unit on the back bumper and duct the warm air in as axillary heat if needed.

Ron

[TTMartin]

Originally Posted by Ron in BC

I've read up on them out of interest. Especially the comparisons to Espar et. Basically the Chinese ones pretty much copy the Espars etc. only some of the items are noticeably thinner metal. But they seem to be very good value.

From what I've read the Chinese knockoff diesel heaters are either on (high / low) or off. You need to build your own temperature control with a Raspberry or the like. Even then you need to manually enter the altitude to calibrate them properly for different altitudes.

With my Espar D2 it as an automatic altitude sensor and you set the temperature on it's thermostat controller and forget about it.

To me it doesn't make sense to add another fuel to your Escape trailer when the propane furnace works fine.

[PM15283]

Lucky you if you can depend on a propane furnace. My experience says otherwise. My TV is diesel. A jerry can is much more convenient than propane bottles.

[Ron in BC]

Originally Posted by TTMartin

To me it doesn't make sense to add another fuel to your Escape trailer when the propane furnace works fine.

There's two types; the "need to be built in" types and the stand alone types.

The stand alone types have a fuel tank built in, all they need is 12V and a duct to the interior. In my case I have a 12V drop on my rear bumper and a 4" hatch that I use for misc. random cables etc.

So I could put a bracket on the rear bumper and drop on the heater any time when I needed extra heat. I don't have the cold weather usage to do that but I think that it's quite feasible.

And with the diesel tank built in it could be topped up when gassing up.

Ron

[John in Santa Cruz]

Originally Posted by PM15283

Lucky you if you can depend on a propane furnace. My experience says otherwise. My TV is diesel. A jerry can is much more convenient than propane bottles.

so you are going to siphon from your vehicle tank? or run a fuel line from the vehicle tank to the heater with its own aux fuel pump?

I mean, I totally get putting a diesel heater on a diesel vehicle, my son is building a no-propane adventure camper on a F550 chassis, he's using a diesel heater directly plumbed to the vehicle's aux fuel tank. lithium batts, massive rooftop solar to run a truckfridge and an induction cooktop.

[TTMartin]

Originally Posted by Ron in BC

There's two types; the "need to be built in" types and the stand alone types.

For the stand alone types with a duct to the interior, how do they ensure that the exhaust by products are not sucked into the trailer?

[TTMartin]

Originally Posted by John in Santa Cruz

I mean, I totally get putting a diesel heater on a diesel vehicle, my son is building a no-propane adventure camper on a F550 chassis, he's using a diesel heater directly plumbed to the vehicle's aux fuel tank. lithium batts, massive rooftop solar to run a truckfridge and an induction cooktop.

Be sure he has a DC to DC charger. With an F550 he can easily handle a 50 amp DC to DC charger. There will be times that solar will need a little assistance.

[Ron in BC]

Originally Posted by TTMartin

For the stand alone types with a duct to the interior, how do they ensure that the exhaust by products are not sucked into the trailer?

The exhaust faces downwards and the unit can have a flexible exhaust hose and muffler attached. Presuming that the warm air duct fits the port snugly I can't see how there would be any exhaust fume issue. None of the large number of reviews or videos on youtube that I've seen have mentioned that as a problem.

Ron

[TTMartin]

Originally Posted by Ron in BC

The exhaust faces downwards and the unit can have a flexible exhaust hose and muffler attached. Presuming that the warm air duct fits the port snugly I can't see how there would be any exhaust fume issue. None of the large number of reviews or videos on youtube that I've seen have mentioned that as a problem.

If you're talking about a unit like this 12V 5KW All-in-One Air Diesel Heater LCD Switch & Remote Control 1 Outlet for Car Boat Caravan SUV Trucks

It is just an Espar knock off in a case with an attached diesel tank.

Despite misleading photos in the listing, it really isn't all that portable.





These heaters are literally model aircraft jet engines. They suck in combustion air through one of the pipes on the bottom and exhaust diesel fumes out the other. This makes them ideal when permanently installed inside a vehicle as they function as a furnace. The combustion air being drawn in and exhausted outside of the vehicle.

When installed inside a vehicle to heat the air the unit draws air from inside the vehicle and runs it over a heat exchanger and outputs it inside the vehicle.

Set up outside of a vehicle with a hose running into the vehicle, the unit will be drawing outside air in, heating it, and blowing it into the vehicle. There is nothing to prevent the exhaust gasses from being sucked up by the unit and drawn back into the trailer.

I can tell you from experience their is significant odors coming out of the Espar exhaust and presumably a fair amount of carbon monoxide.

They say you shouldn't sleeping in your car with the engine running. In that case your tailpipe is exhausting at least 10 feet from your fresh air intake. How long of an exhaust pipe were you planning on using on the heater? Be aware that to function properly the Espar D2 specifies a maximum exhaust pipe length of max 6.5'.

There are a lot of impractical and downright unsafe ideas posted on YouTube. IMO this qualifies as one of those.

[JeffreyG]

I'm with TT Martin in that I don't see an attraction here, but if you are going to go ahead then he does hit a point that should be made.


You have to duct both hot air from the unit into the trailer, and also duct a cold air return from the trailer to the unit. It is critical to avoid having the unit suck up its own exhaust fumes with a naked intake.


Also, you want a cold air return in order to avoid having a really inefficient unit. If you have only a hot duct, then the unit will always be starting from ambient outside temperature, heating it all the way up, and pumping it in. Then the warm air inside the trailer will be forced out every little leak point to make up for the incoming hot air. It's not a good way to heat a space.

[Ron in BC]

Originally Posted by TTMartin

It is just an Espar knock off in a case with an attached diesel tank.

When installed inside a vehicle to heat the air the unit draws air from inside the vehicle and runs it over a heat exchanger and outputs it inside the vehicle.

Set up outside of a vehicle with a hose running into the vehicle, the unit will be drawing outside air in, heating it, and blowing it into the vehicle. There is nothing to prevent the exhaust gasses from being sucked up by the unit and drawn back into the trailer.

The claim seems to be that the patent on Espar has expired so, yes, they're pretty close copies. Thinner material in some places though.

Pretty easy to deal with separating the exhaust and air intake. You could just put a simple vertical tube on the air intake the same way that we do for filling scuba tanks with a gas driven compressor. It, however, would be more efficient to draw the air from the interior which would be pretty simple to do.

A friend bought one of the built-in type for his boat but has gotten around to installing it. I'll be interested to see it action.

Yes, they're noisy. I'd much rather have a Dickinson Newport but I won't sacrifice my drawer stack for it. They're great. Had several. They just sit there quietly putting lot's of heat while all the time giving a cheery fireplace glow. I've spent many a night warm and snug inside with ice and snow on the deck.

Ron

[gbaglo]

Is that kid in the car seat still alive?

[Mike G]

Originally Posted by Ron in BC

I'd much rather have a Dickinson Newport but I won't sacrifice my drawer stack for it. They're great. Had several. They just sit there quietly putting lot's of heat while all the time giving a cheery fireplace glow. I've spent many a night warm and snug inside with ice and snow on the deck.

Ron

The Newport doesn't have a thermostat control for on/off as the temp fluctuates, does it?

[rbryan4]

Originally Posted by PM15283

Lucky you if you can depend on a propane furnace. My experience says otherwise. My TV is diesel. A jerry can is much more convenient than propane bottles.

Lucky? The trailer has two propane tanks, and the furnace is plumbed for propane. Not convenient enough? What am I missing?