Do I need an inverter?

[John in Santa Cruz]

Originally Posted by LarryandLiz

I agree with Jim

For Grinding coffee beans we have a small inverter which inserts into a 12 volt socket

[Patandlinda]

Originally Posted by LarryandLiz

I agree with Jim

For Grinding coffee beans we have a small inverter which inserts into a 12 volt socket

Same here just have a 300 watt potable and have only used it once in 6 plus years . Pat

[John in Santa Cruz]

btw, a 300W inverter at peak output draws more currnet than a cigar outlet should be asked to deliver. those are good for maybe 150 watt. I added a couple 'powerpole' PP30 connectors on a panel in my trailer, and put a cord with PP30 plug on my 300W inverter... the PP30's on the panel have 12 AWG wiring about a foot or so to the power center, and each PP30 is on its own 30A fuse. 30A at 12V is 360 watts.

the same power panel that has the two PP30's has a cigar outlet (15A) and a dual 2A USB charger (on its own 8 amp fuse), these are wired with 18 AWG wire.

[C&G in FL]

Originally Posted by John in Santa Cruz

I had one of those and disliked it so much that I gave it away. It was a bit shall I say “bouncy” when grinding and definitely to slow. I did some research and bought a Lido Orphan Express grinder and IMO, there is no comparison. That being said, however, the Orphan Express is a bit pricey for most people. Most would likely not pay its price for an electric coffee grinder. I am only aware of one other member here who has one.

[UncleTim]

We have the 1500 watt inverter and a 300 watt 12v inverter for small jobs. We also have a separate power supply with a 500 watt power inverter on it.

We use all three. My wife uses a hair dryer (her favorite) with requires short blasts of 120v. We charge all sorts of stuff like laptops (2), ipads, fans, batteries, skateboards, scooters and whatever else needs to be charged. Mind you, some of these batteries are very big.

We have two solar panels and once the camper is fully charged (usually before 10 am), you can charge anything you want. If the Sun is out, even a little, power is abundant. At night, not so much. So we cut way back on energy usage at night. No microwave, no hair dryers, just 12v lights. Heat is always propane as is water for coffee.

One last point. Apparently the wire used in the camper 12v plug is not a thick gauge. If you run 300 watts thru it, you might have trouble. Using the 300 watt pure sign wave inverter, I am careful to keep the charging load under 100 watts! The separate power block allows me to meter a device before hand, to know what the charging load will be.

[rubicon327]

Originally Posted by Greatboatz3

Being a Newbie I appreciate this tread. After reading these posts I can't think of what a 1500 watt inverter would be used for. Looking on Amazon for 300 watt inverter I came across the Bestek 300W Pure Sine Wave Inverter, $49US. The item description mentions if you use a car cigarette lighter limit your usage to 150 watts as that is what most car cigarette lighters are fused for.
Questions:
What are escape's 12v outlets fused for?
How do you use yours? Are the hard wired?
Concerning Batteries is the standard Deep Cycle battery sufficient?
What are Transfer Switches?
Thanks for your help.

Originally Posted by John in Santa Cruz

btw, a 300W inverter at peak output draws more currnet than a cigar outlet should be asked to deliver. those are good for maybe 150 watt.

Escapes 12V outlets are likely ganged together on the same 15A fuse as lights and possible other accessories (range hood, MaxxFan). Might depend on year, model, or even who wired the trailer. I would be very hesitant running anything larger than one of those small 100W plug in inverters in a stock 12V outlet. Anything else should be hardwired to the battery. With small, infrequent loads any battery would be fine. More serious loads like microwaves are another matter. The only time transfer switches come into play is when you have several circuits hardwired to run on the inverter. It automatically senses no shore power and switches to provide 120V power to these circuits via the inverter. To provide proper circuit protection while on the inverter these outlets are typically wired through a sub panel. The stock Escape “all outlet” option uses the WFCO T-30 transfer switch piggybacked onto the back of the power center and a sub panel with two 15A circuits out to receptacles.

[alanmalk]

Originally Posted by dosby

...
With just 190W you would be able to run a 700w microwave for an hour or so in the summer if you don’t park in the shade.
100ah battery would run a microwave for an hour as well.
...

That's very optimistic. A 700w microwave being powered by an inverter will probably pull 800w from the battery while running. 800w at 12.4v = 64.5 amps. Yes, in theory, the basic Escape single battery could provide 90 amps for an hour (90 AH).

The problems arise in the real world. First, 64 amps is way over the industry standard of measuring a battery at its 20 hour rate. So the actual capacity at the 64 amp rate is probably around 75 AH, not 90. Next, there is the so-called 50% limit that says if you pull more than half of your battery capacity you will discover a big hole in your credit card in short order. (Speaking for myself only, I think a camper can get away with 75% a few times a year without ever noticing any life-shortening effects - but I digress.) Ok, at the 50% boundary you now can only pull half of 75 amp-hours - 37.5 amp-hours. And finally, the voltage of a lead-acid tends to fall off rather quickly under load, so your inverter will either shut down around 11 volts or become very inefficient, pulling more power.

Bottom line - I would guess about 15 minutes of use for a 700 watt microwave. But certainly that's more than enough to re-heat leftover pizza? (I like my left over pizza cold, thank you.)
--
Alan

[tdf-texas]

Originally Posted by rubicon327

The stock Escape “all outlet” option uses the WFCO T-30 transfer switch piggybacked onto the back of the power center and a sub panel with two 15A circuits out to receptacles.

Keep in mind that the two 15A circuits for the "all outlet" option violates both US and Canadian electric codes if a microwave is installed. Both codes require the microwave to be on a dedicated circuit - not daisy chained with other outlets. That dedicated outlet sticker on the microwave outlet is there because code required it - Escape just didn't wire it as dedicated.

I have not seen an Escape without the "all outlets" option but it stands to reason that Escape did the same thing when the microwave is powered from the WFCO breakers.

It's an easy fix to resolve this issue - just change out the breakers for duplex ones and reconnect.
https://www.escapeforum.org/forums/f...ion-11047.html

[TahoeJoe]

Just remembered one more thing we use our small inverter for: charging our electric bike batteries!

[dosby]

Originally Posted by alanmalk

That's very optimistic. A 700w microwave being powered by an inverter will probably pull 800w from the battery while running. 800w at 12.4v = 64.5 amps. Yes, in theory, the basic Escape single battery could provide 90 amps for an hour (90 AH).

The problems arise in the real world. First, 64 amps is way over the industry standard of measuring a battery at its 20 hour rate. So the actual capacity at the 64 amp rate is probably around 75 AH, not 90. Next, there is the so-called 50% limit that says if you pull more than half of your battery capacity you will discover a big hole in your credit card in short order. (Speaking for myself only, I think a camper can get away with 75% a few times a year without ever noticing any life-shortening effects - but I digress.) Ok, at the 50% boundary you now can only pull half of 75 amp-hours - 37.5 amp-hours. And finally, the voltage of a lead-acid tends to fall off rather quickly under load, so your inverter will either shut down around 11 volts or become very inefficient, pulling more power.

Bottom line - I would guess about 15 minutes of use for a 700 watt microwave. But certainly that's more than enough to re-heat leftover pizza? (I like my left over pizza cold, thank you.)
--
Alan

Ah I am planning to install a lithium battery in my build so was talking about that scenario. They could be deeply discharged and keep the voltage, as well as provide good enough current. Consistent 100a?

[Greatboatz3]

Originally Posted by John in Santa Cruz

btw, a 300W inverter at peak output draws more currnet than a cigar outlet should be asked to deliver. those are good for maybe 150 watt. I added a couple 'powerpole' PP30 connectors on a panel in my trailer, and put a cord with PP30 plug on my 300W inverter... the PP30's on the panel have 12 AWG wiring about a foot or so to the power center, and each PP30 is on its own 30A fuse. 30A at 12V is 360 watts.

the same power panel that has the two PP30's has a cigar outlet (15A) and a dual 2A USB charger (on its own 8 amp fuse), these are wired with 18 AWG wire.

John, thanks for your info about wiring your inverter. I've searched and searched but I'm unable to find a 3 piece mount like yours. Do you have a link.
Jim A.

[John in Santa Cruz]

Originally Posted by Greatboatz3

John, thanks for your info about wiring your inverter. I've searched and searched but I'm unable to find a 3 piece mount like yours. Do you have a link.
Jim A.

it came with 2 cigar sockets and the USB thing, I replaced one of the cigar sockets with the dual PP30...

so, this https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B019BAL1OS/
plus https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B077VWXXYG/

that 1-1/8" round stuff is all interchangable. you can get volt meters, all kinda stuff in that form factor.

[John in Santa Cruz]

Originally Posted by C&G in FL

I had one of those and disliked it so much that I gave it away. It was a bit shall I say “bouncy” when grinding and definitely to slow. I did some research and bought a Lido Orphan Express grinder and IMO, there is no comparison. That being said, however, the Orphan Express is a bit pricey for most people. Most would likely not pay its price for an electric coffee grinder. I am only aware of one other member here who has one.

the Handground has worked OK for us, I usually grind on setting 3 for either aeropress or hand pour drip, and I find it works best if I put it on a countertop, put one hand on top, holding it down firmly, and crank with the other hand. I do agree with a bunch of reviewers that its grind isn't as fine and even as it should be, and its kinda big and clumsy.

thinking of trying this one next...
https://www.amazon.com/1Zpresso-Manu.../dp/B07VNQYJDG

[Vermilye]

Originally Posted by John in Santa Cruz

it came with 2 cigar sockets and the USB thing, I replaced one of the cigar sockets with the dual PP30...

so, this https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B019BAL1OS/
plus https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B077VWXXYG/

that 1-1/8" round stuff is all interchangable. you can get volt meters, all kinda stuff in that form factor.

They are also available in many configurations at Powerwerx, along with many different 1 1/8" inserts. For those looking for a replacement battery switch, note the 100 amp 1 1/8" insert.

[kavm]

We are complete newbies - never owned a pickup truck, camper/rv, so this is very interesting and, frankly, confusing. We are getting a 5.0 in May 2021. Will be ordering Lithium batteries (multiple but not sure how many - 2, 3, 4?) and 2 solar panels. [I have been following the various threads as best as I can and understand the temperature limitations.]

Absolutely zero DIY skills or understanding of / aptitude for the technologies involved [good at following maintenance instructions], so prefer to over order from ETI than waste time and money having some RV shop retrofit things. We are much more constrained skills/time than money.

We haven't the foggiest idea of our needs. Our camping experience is tent-based, so the projections from it are useless. We haven't been paying attention to the wattage of various things. Trying to compile a spreadsheet isn't likely to happen in time.

We have no use for a TV, microwave, coffee grinder, etc. [don't use them at home] but are otherwise heavy owners and users of electronics - laptops, ipads, iphones, iwatch, electric toothbrushes, waterpik, headlamps, bike lamps, bike radars, bike computers, hiking gps, etc. Interested in WiFi/signal booster type solutions but don't know of any. Don't have a CPAP but who knows what life brings. Definitely expecting a compressor fridge - preferably the not-as-yet-finalized option from ETI, but external alternative if ETI doesn't offer one.

Our camping style is almost exclusively national parks, national forests - guessing almost exclusively without power hookups. Of course, if we are driving longer distances, we might stay in commercial campgrounds en route, or if we are in an area where national/state/commercial campground offers hookups, we would definitely take it. We also expect to have 7.5kW generator through the F150 propower onboard feature, but waiting to confirm whether the hybrid F150 permits 5th wheel hitch installation.

For such a situation -

• Does getting the inverter from ETI make sense? It has firmly been on our option list, but this thread sowed some doubts
• How many LI batteries should we go for? Like I said, we'd prefer to overorder upfront than upgrade later. But, I don't know if 100Ah is our real need and 200Ah is overspec or if 200 Ah+ is our need and 300/400 Ah is the right "over" order?

[alanmalk]

Originally Posted by kavm

We are complete newbies
...

• Does getting the inverter from ETI make sense? It has firmly been on our option list, but this thread sowed some doubts
• How many LI batteries should we go for? Like I said, we'd prefer to overorder upfront than upgrade later. But, I don't know if 100Ah is our real need and 200Ah is overspec or if 200 Ah+ is our need and 300/400 Ah is the right "over" order?

The simple answer is: Camp first, then decide on the inverter. Easy to add (easy relative to roof top solar for example). Plenty to choose from on Amazon.

Batteries? Start with the common solution, which for most of us is 2. That gives you 200 amp-hours which is many days with no sun and using small, low power loads. Example: lighting, water pump, refrigerator electronics (while the 'fridge is using propane), small vent fans, etc. With low loads and a standard Escape solar panel you will be just fine and will recharge when the sun comes out. But camp early and camp often, and if you get the urge for a hair dryer, microwave, toaster oven, etc, then you can add more batteries, more solar, bigger inverter, etc. On the other hand, if you find yourselves always camping next to a campground power box and use it, you may never need to upgrade - money saved.
--
Alan

[kavm]

Thank you, Alan!

[Rikster]

Originally Posted by emers382

You don't need an inverter for a CPAP nor likely for a hearing aid charger. For our CPAP we bought a 12-24v converter and use that when we have no power. We have the standard Escape solar I think only 120 (2016 installation) and we can boondock without issues. We have a small 140 watt plug in inverter which will run our small TV or an AC fan or laptop just fine, one at a time of course.

Also I note the OP is in Vermont. There's a current thread saying lithium should not be stored in a trailer during the winter in cold climates. We have the standard Escape dual six volt and they stay charged just with the solar panel all winter with temperatures down to -40, that's either C or F degrees.
https://www.escapeforum.org/forums/f...tml#post357270

Hi Adrian and Beth,
We have a 21NE on order and will be discussing options with them next month.
Thinking of the lithium battery with solar and was thinking inverter due to CPAP (with humidifier which I have read should not be used while camping). Can you send additional info about what you are using to power your CPAP? Perhaps we do not need the inverter from Escape.

Thank you,
Rick

[TX_Clint]

Originally Posted by John in Santa Cruz

Oh, my. My taste in coffee sure is different than most of you. I spent a good part of my adult life drinking power plant coffee. I brew a pot of good ole Folgers preground coffee first thing in the morning to have with breakfast and then reheat it for after dinner. The older the brew and the raunchier the better. I do like a thick cup for desert.
So I therefore see no issues with regular stove top or campfire coffee. If it's black I'm good to go!

[davidmurphy02]

One thing to consider is how handy or willing you are to do future modifications if your needs change down the road and you find that you have a need for an inverter. With the factory installed inverter for all outlets you also get a transfer switch and an additional breaker box for the circuits powered by the inverter, and the inverter is connected to and controlled by a switch on the solar controller. I am not one to want to take on extensive electrical work later on myself, and have been very happy with the ETI inverter package. We are in the minority who like occasional use of the microwave when camping without hookups - which is most of the time - and find the inverter really great for that. And who knows what may come up years down the road that we may need AC power for....with the inverter we'll be all set should other needs arise.