Do I need an inverter?

[emers382]

Originally Posted by Rikster

Hi Adrian and Beth,
We have a 21NE on order and will be discussing options with them next month.
Thinking of the lithium battery with solar and was thinking inverter due to CPAP (with humidifier which I have read should not be used while camping). Can you send additional info about what you are using to power your CPAP? Perhaps we do not need the inverter from Escape.

Thank you,
Rick

Rick I sent you a PM

[kavm]

Originally Posted by davidmurphy02

One thing to consider is how handy or willing you are to do future modifications if your needs change down the road and you find that you have a need for an inverter. With the factory installed inverter for all outlets you also get a transfer switch and an additional breaker box for the circuits powered by the inverter, and the inverter is connected to and controlled by a switch on the solar controller. I am not one to want to take on extensive electrical work later on myself, and have been very happy with the ETI inverter package. We are in the minority who like occasional use of the microwave when camping without hookups - which is most of the time - and find the inverter really great for that. And who knows what may come up years down the road that we may need AC power for....with the inverter we'll be all set should other needs arise.

Thanks a lot, David. Very helpful. We are not handy at all, and for that reason - our position is to take the ETI option unless we know we'd never need it.

[John in Santa Cruz]

the downside of the factory inverter is, its 1500 watts, and if you're just powering something that needs 80 or 100 watts, like a laptop, or an ebike charger, the efficiency is terrible, quite possibly worse than 50%. So, 4 hours of ebike/laptop charging might use 200 * 4 == 800 watt*hours of your battery, which is 65 amp hours at 12 volts, almost 2/3rds of the safe draw-down level on a dual 6V battery rig (220AH drawn to 50% discharge == 110AH). a smaller inverter with the same load might be more like 90% efficient, so it would draw 110*4 == 440 watt*hours for the same task, closer to 1/3rd the safe battery draw down instead of 2/3rds.

[TX_Clint]

Originally Posted by John in Santa Cruz

the downside of the factory inverter is, its 1500 watts, and if you're just powering something that needs 80 or 100 watts, like a laptop, or an ebike charger, the efficiency is terrible, quite possibly worse than 50%. So, 4 hours of ebike/laptop charging might use 200 * 4 == 800 watt*hours of your battery, which is 65 amp hours at 12 volts, almost 2/3rds of the safe draw-down level on a dual 6V battery rig (220AH drawn to 50% discharge == 110AH). a smaller inverter with the same load might be more like 90% efficient, so it would draw 110*4 == 440 watt*hours for the same task, closer to 1/3rd the safe battery draw down instead of 2/3rds.

Let's rethink this. I don't know where you got an efficiency possibly worse than 50%. I looked up the specs on the Go-Power 1500 watt inverter and it's rated at a 91% efficiency.

[kavm]

Thank you, John! This makes me understand the efficiency angle. We might ask ETI whether they provide a smaller inverter option. The nature of appliances we might use it for are small. At the same time, we would not be able to take on self-installation / wiring type modification.

[gbaglo]

Originally Posted by kavm

At the same time, we would not be able to take on self-installation / wiring type modification.

All you have to do is plug it in.

[kavm]

gbaglo - Thanks for the picture. Even I might be about manage that

I have read the term inverter and read its function but had no clue what it looked like...

[gbaglo]

Originally Posted by kavm

gbaglo - Thanks for the picture. Even I might be about manage that

I got that one on sale for $9.99 CAD at Canadian Tire. I also have a 200 watt that cost $59.99. Dozens of them on the market.

[kavm]

Good to know. Need to reconsider inverter option...

[John in Santa Cruz]

Originally Posted by TX_Clint

Let's rethink this. I don't know where you got an efficiency possibly worse than 50%. I looked up the specs on the Go-Power 1500 watt inverter and it's rated at a 91% efficiency.

that's at its peak 1500 watts output, where the inverter will be drawing around 1650 watts to supply 1500 watts of AC power at 91% efficiency. BTW, 1650 watts at 12V is 140 amps.

try it at 150 watts output. bet the inverter is drawing 300 watts, thats 50% efficient

on those smaller inverters, anything much over about 150 or 200 watts shouldn't be powered from a cigar lighter outlet, its just too much current. my 300W came with battery clips, which I replaced with a powerpole PP30... al,so watch out for the specmanship they pull. I think my 300W says 400W on it, but thats peak, its at most 300W sustained, and I really try and stay under 200W most of the time.

[cpaharley2008]

I have never used an inverter and do not intend to start now......... There are multiple sources of energy available today as well as getting the right one you need.

[75thRanger]

I have the ETI installed inverter and wouldn't be without it.. Use it everyday when at COE parks.

I use the non-electric sites

[dosby]

Originally Posted by John in Santa Cruz

that's at its peak 1500 watts output, where the inverter will be drawing around 1650 watts to supply 1500 watts of AC power at 91% efficiency. BTW, 1650 watts at 12V is 140 amps.

try it at 150 watts output. bet the inverter is drawing 300 watts, thats 50% efficient

on those smaller inverters, anything much over about 150 or 200 watts shouldn't be powered from a cigar lighter outlet, its just too much current. my 300W came with battery clips, which I replaced with a powerpole PP30... al,so watch out for the specmanship they pull. I think my 300W says 400W on it, but thats peak, its at most 300W sustained, and I really try and stay under 200W most of the time.

here is an efficiency chart I got for another inverter, so it's not too bad, but 1.5kW inverter is definitely an overkill for <100W loads such as smartphones or toothbrushes, I would use a simple 100-150W plug-in inverter to charge them via 12V outlets or just use a 12V to USB adapter.

[steve dunham]

Originally Posted by cpaharley2008

I have never used an inverter and do not intend to start now......... There are multiple sources of energy available today as well as getting the right one you need.

If you read many of the threads / posts concerning inverters one would think that the propane appliances on an Escape are basically useless

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by John in Santa Cruz

that's at its peak 1500 watts output, where the inverter will be drawing around 1650 watts to supply 1500 watts of AC power at 91% efficiency. BTW, 1650 watts at 12V is 140 amps.

try it at 150 watts output. bet the inverter is drawing 300 watts, thats 50% efficient...

That's likely very pessimistic.

Originally Posted by dosby

here is an efficiency chart I got for another inverter, so it's not too bad....

At 150 watts output a 1500 watt inverter following this pattern would still be at about 85% efficiency. The problem at low power is that the inverter uses some power just to stay on, and that power becomes significant compared to a low enough power output... but were talking about perhaps 10 to 30 watts of continually wasted power, not 75 watts.

I've lost track of the current model of inverter supplied by Escape, but a typical Go Power 1500 watt inverter specifies less than 1.8 amps of no-load current draw, which is about 20 watts; if the inverter loses 15 watts to operating inefficiency (10% of 150 watts) plus 20 watts of idle power, it would need 185 watts to deliver 150 watts, or 81% overall efficiency.

I think a good way to consider big inverter operation is just to assume that when it is working it is throwing away about 25 watts or a couple of amps, regardless of what is being powered. If that loss is not worthwhile, a smaller inverter (or DC-to-DC adapter) - or just not using electricity - is called for.

It would be interesting if someone with the optional inverter, plus some instrumentation and curiosity, would measure input and output power at various levels to see how this inverter really performs.

[rubicon327]

Originally Posted by Brian B-P

I've lost track of the current model of inverter supplied by Escape...

It should be the GoPower GP-ISW1500.

https://gpelectric.com/products/1500...wave-inverter/

[dosby]

To me, the benefit of the built-in inverter with an all-outlet switch is that you won't need to mess with all the cords inside already very tight space. I could live with some manual switching couple of times per day to have that benefit.
We don't have a trailer yet But my wife already talks waffle makers, coffee makers, crockpots and what not, which I think we will use for sure when connected to shore power. The question is who's gonna solve the problem of no shore power when all those niceties become a habit.

[TX_Clint]

Originally Posted by dosby

here is an efficiency chart I got for another inverter, so it's not too bad, but 1.5kW inverter is definitely an overkill for <100W loads such as smartphones or toothbrushes, I would use a simple 100-150W plug-in inverter to charge them via 12V outlets or just use a 12V to USB adapter.

That chart does paint the picture well. The way I see it is if you will need more than about 150 watts ever then just install the standard 1500 watt inverter. Whatever losses occur will be unnoticed as long as the sun shines a bit.

Dang now I've got that sunshine song stuck in my head!!

[steve dunham]

Originally Posted by dosby

To me, the benefit of the built-in inverter with an all-outlet switch is that you won't need to mess with all the cords inside already very tight space. I could live with some manual switching couple of times per day to have that benefit.
We don't have a trailer yet But my wife already talks waffle makers, coffee makers, crockpots and what not, which I think we will use for sure when connected to shore power. The question is who's gonna solve the problem of no shore power when all those niceties become a habit.

Buy your wife a SS perk and a couple of pie iron waffle makers , start a campfire and you’re ready to go . Making waffles over a open campfire has a slight learning curve but you’ll will master the art in no time .

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by rubicon327

It should be the GoPower GP-ISW1500.

https://gpelectric.com/products/1500...wave-inverter/

Thanks

That's the one for which I checked the idle current spec:

• idle: ≤ 1.8 A
• powersave: < 0.1 A