Do I need an inverter?

[C&G in FL]

Originally Posted by steve dunham

If you read many of the threads / posts concerning inverters one would think that the propane appliances on an Escape are basically useless

I am not one of those who would imply that propane appliances are useless. I use a fair amount of propane. But I n the absence of shore power, my coffee maker will not function on propane and the coffee it makes is far superior to that produced by a stove top percolator. And the last time I stopped at a rest area for a quick lunch and tried to run the microwave on its propane setting, I couldn’t find the selector knob to switch it from electric to gas so I couldn’t quickly reheat a piece of chicken. OTOH, I cannot run my Weber grill on the inverter. The bottom line: Inverters have their place and their uses. Some people use them a lot, others not so much or not at all. It all comes down to what capabilities one wishes to have available. I would guess that the threads/posts to which you refer are from people who regularly use their inverters.

[alanmalk]

Originally Posted by C&G in FL

...

And the last time I stopped at a rest area for a quick lunch and tried to run the microwave on its propane setting, I couldn’t find the selector knob to switch it from electric to gas so I couldn’t quickly reheat a piece of chicken. OTOH, I cannot run my Weber grill on the inverter.
...

Good grief. Everyone knows you can't run a microwave on propane. You are supposed to shovel some hot coals from your Weber into the microwave and add the chicken!
--
Alan

[Rossue]

If you can afford it - get it. Much better than say a Jack antenna or 2-way water heater IMO. We originally ordered to use our Vitamix, yet don't take it with us much anymore. We do use it though to charge multiple items(via transfer switch) when sun is out. Milwaukee drill used to grind coffee & work stabilizers; electric toothbrush, Costco power station- airpump & jump starter combo. Sometimes convenient to use stock outside AC plug to charge cellphone. Could we do without? Yes, however it does come in handy and can run appliances if needed such as a toaster or coffee maker without hookups. A versatile luxury option.

[TX_Clint]

Personally I'd starve without a microwave. So, yea I'd definitely get the 1500 watt inverter.

[TahoeJoe]

A couple more: I carry a compressor on my travels and use my inverter to charge that sometimes. And the wifey insists on a corded high powered vacuum.

[gbaglo]

A lot of wife-blaming going on here.

[TahoeJoe]

Originally Posted by gbaglo

A lot of wife-blaming going on here.

Ha! Yes and neither of those things are essential, and they could both be replaced with 12V products, but here we are...both being stubborn people, who own an inverter

[C&G in FL]

Originally Posted by alanmalk

Good grief. Everyone knows you can't run a microwave on propane. You are supposed to shovel some hot coals from your Weber into the microwave and add the chicken!
--
Alan

Alan, if we ever meet, I’m buying you a beer! After all this time of confusion you have finally clarified how to use the microwave when shore power is not available. Now I can switch sides and join the group that tells all those who ask about inverters that they are absolutely worthless, will never be used, are likely to blow up destroying the trailer, will cause premature death of the batteries, and will melt the wiring in the trailer, resulting in a conflagration. But before I do I am going to get rid of my propane fueled Weber Q100 and get one of the kettles that burns charcoal since I will need hot coals. Of course, starting charcoal to run the microwave on its non-electric option will eliminate the possibility of a quick rest area lunch stop. I just can’t win, it seems.

[cpaharley2008]

Originally Posted by steve dunham

If you read many of the threads / posts concerning inverters one would think that the propane appliances on an Escape are basically useless

I agree 100% and let's not forget cooking over the fire or using your outside griddle...on or off the fire. It is what camping is all about, not sitting inside and using your appliances brought from home. We use one of these all the time

[75thRanger]

Originally Posted by Brian B-P

That's likely very pessimistic.

At 150 watts output a 1500 watt inverter following this pattern would still be at about 85% efficiency. The problem at low power is that the inverter uses some power just to stay on, and that power becomes significant compared to a low enough power output... but were talking about perhaps 10 to 30 watts of continually wasted power, not 75 watts.

I've lost track of the current model of inverter supplied by Escape, but a typical Go Power 1500 watt inverter specifies less than 1.8 amps of no-load current draw, which is about 20 watts; if the inverter loses 15 watts to operating inefficiency (10% of 150 watts) plus 20 watts of idle power, it would need 185 watts to deliver 150 watts, or 81% overall efficiency.

I think a good way to consider big inverter operation is just to assume that when it is working it is throwing away about 25 watts or a couple of amps, regardless of what is being powered. If that loss is not worthwhile, a smaller inverter (or DC-to-DC adapter) - or just not using electricity - is called for.

It would be interesting if someone with the optional inverter, plus some instrumentation and curiosity, would measure input and output power at various levels to see how this inverter really performs.

I can verify that my ETI installed inverter draws about 1.75a with no load. I looked at several things with my new Victron and that was one of them.

As you say, May be interesting to look at some other factors.

[steve dunham]

Originally Posted by cpaharley2008

I agree 100% and let's not forget cooking over the fire or using your outside griddle...on or off the fire. It is what camping is all about, not sitting inside and using your appliances brought from home. We use one of these all the time

Jim , we are living in the modern computer age . Everything has to have a battery , a keypad , a passwords , flashing lights , an led screen , make strange noises .require you to take 9 totally unrelated steps to go from point A to point B and pay someone a kings ransom for crappy service so you can stay constantly connected to facebook or your crockpot .
If it’s simple , does the job WELL , and doesn’t require a masters degree in computer science , it is deemed too complicated , old fashioned ,and thus useless
I’ve watched my SIL get out of his chair , walk half way across the house to get his phone , sit back down in his chair , and then proceed to adjust the room thermostat via “bluetooth “ that is located 4’ away from his chair
( I do have bluetooth in my 2019 truck , well the dealer tells me I do , and my only question is
“ How do I turn it off permanently “ . For me it is a useless irritant.
My Grandmother made thanksgiving dinner for 20 in a kitchen with a hand pump and a wood stove and the meal was delicious.

[tdf-texas]

Originally Posted by gbaglo

A lot of wife-blaming going on here.

Always remember - a happy wife is a happy life.

[C&G in FL]

Originally Posted by cpaharley2008

I agree 100% and let's not forget cooking over the fire or using your outside griddle...on or off the fire. It is what camping is all about, not sitting inside and using your appliances brought from home. We use one of these all the time

Jim, I love it when you are so agreeable. BTW, when was the last time you used your outside griddle over a fire for a quick lunch at a rest stop.

I do take exception with your statement “It is what camping is all about, not sitting inside and using your appliances brought from home.” You failed to add the most important words after about, specifically “for me.” Who died and conferred you with the title “the Merriam Webster of Camping?” That is your personal perception of camping and you do not reflect everyone else’s camping values. There are those who would criticize you for camping with an sleeping in a trailer rather than a tent or under the open stars. The choice to not use or have an inverter is yours and you are entitled to “camp” how you wish, with or without an inverter, but those who use inverters are no less of a camper than you.

[steve dunham]

Originally Posted by C&G in FL

Jim, I love it when you are so agreeable. BTW, when was the last time you used your outside griddle over a fire for a quick lunch at a rest stop.

I do take exception with your statement “It is what camping is all about, not sitting inside and using your appliances brought from home.” You failed to add the most important words after about, specifically “for me.” Who died and conferred you with the title “the Merriam Webster of Camping?” That is your personal perception of camping and you do not reflect everyone else’s camping values. There are those who would criticize you for camping with an sleeping in a trailer rather than a tent or under the open stars. The choice to not use or have an inverter is yours and you are entitled to “camp” how you wish, with or without an inverter, but those who use inverters are no less of a camper than you.

Carl , I fully agree with you . Traveling around in an Escape with a furnace , A/C , propane cooktop , electric lights , a full bathroom , inverter, soft comfy bed , TV , 5000 electronic devices , every appliance known to mankind , water heater , kitchen sink ,etc is not camping .
It’s RVing and that’s your choice and it’s not my place to judge
Like my Dad used to say when I said I couldn’t do something
“ It’s not that you can’t do it , it’s that you choose not to do it “
The last time I went “ camping” , I slept in a tent , pulled my water from a lake , slept on the ground , cooked my meals over a campfire and went the bathroom over a fallen log with leaves for toilet paper . That’s MY definition of camping !

[dosby]

Looks like definitions shifted, former camping is now backpacking and RVing is called camping now
There is nothing wrong about enjoying active lifestyle in the wild open without having to succumb to all-day long life sustenance (think happy wife )

[C&G in FL]

Originally Posted by steve dunham

Carl , I fully agree with you . Traveling around in an Escape with a furnace , A/C , propane cooktop , electric lights , a full bathroom , inverter, soft comfy bed , TV , 5000 electronic devices , every appliance known to mankind , water heater , kitchen sink ,etc is not camping .
It’s RVing and that’s your choice and it’s not my place to judge
Like my Dad used to say when I said I couldn’t do something
“ It’s not that you can’t do it , it’s that you choose not to do it “
The last time I went “ camping” , I slept in a tent , pulled my water from a lake , slept on the ground , cooked my meals over a campfire and went the bathroom over a fallen log with leaves for toilet paper . That’s MY definition of camping !

Originally Posted by dosby

Looks like definitions shifted, former camping is now backpacking and RVing is called camping now
There is nothing wrong about enjoying active lifestyle in the wild open without having to succumb to all-day long life sustenance (think happy wife )

Actually, I generally tell people that my spouse and I do NOT camp; we are tourists. We will go to a location like Nashville with a “bucket list” of things to see, such as the Parthenon, The Grand Ole Opry, the Ryman Auditorium, the Hermitage (Andrew Jackson’s home), and to experience some of the live music. When we have seen all we want to see, we move on to the next destination. As “tourists,” I consider the trailer a rolling bedroom and a place we cook our own meals (often over a fire or on a grill). Typically, we only hang around a campground when we go to rallies, and that is not often. We go to Scamp Camp every year, and have been to Green Eggs and Ham, LBL, and the Niagara Wine Escape one time each. But we did go to Osoyoos three times. All that being said, if someone were to suggest to me that they knew of a secluded location and that we ought to spend a couple of weeks primitive camping, I would likely agree. I also tow my trailer to Huntsville, AL, when we visit our son snd his family........with one adolescent and one preteen, I relish (and need) my personal space! And getting back to inverters, I have used mine a couple of times but it was always in a rest area for heating up lunch enroute to a destination, and I was glad to have the ability to do so. I have actually never used it in a campsite. But I will admit that if I were forced to divest myself of one “component” in the trailer, the inverter is probably the least essential one, for me anyway. The A/C would be the last to go.

And Steve, your definition of camping is pretty much the same as mine. I fully agree.

[Brian B-P]

There was a time when a "camp" meant a temporary living arrangement that could take days to set up and a large truck to transport, with large tents on wooden floors, cast iron stoves installed in them, and a lot of other stuff; it still means essentially the same thing to some people. Any travel trailer, no matter how extensively equipped, would meet that definition when stopped for the night anywhere away from home. I don't see any point in getting hung up on the definition, but whatever it is, it certainly isn't "living without an inverter".

[C&G in FL]

Originally Posted by Brian B-P

There was a time when a "camp" meant a temporary living arrangement that could take days to set up and a large truck to transport, with large tents on wooden floors, cast iron stoves installed in them, and a lot of other stuff; it still means essentially the same thing to some people. Any travel trailer, no matter how extensively equipped, would meet that definition when stopped for the night anywhere away from home. I don't see any point in getting hung up on the definition, but whatever it is, it certainly isn't "living without an inverter".

The last time I consider that I actually went camping was when I was 12, @ 60 years ago. Went with friends on a two week canoe trip on the Alligash River in northern Maine. Slept In tents and cooked over a fire alongside the river. Never saw anyone else for the entire two weeks. I am told that nowadays, you cannot go 1/2 mile or 1 km without running into others.

I do not consider my Army days sleeping in a pup and eating C-rations (pre MRE days) a true camping experience. Camping is usually fun!

[steve dunham]

Originally Posted by C&G in FL

The last time I consider that I actually went camping was when I was 12, @ 60 years ago. Went with friends on a two week canoe trip on the Alligash River in northern Maine. Slept In tents and cooked over a fire alongside the river. Never saw anyone else for the entire two weeks. I am told that nowadays, you cannot go 1/2 mile or 1 km without running into others.

I do not consider my Army days sleeping in a pup and eating C-rations (pre MRE days) a true camping experience. Camping is usually fun!

We are heading up to Northern Mn for deer hunting at my buddy’s cabin
The cabin built in 1930 does not have electricity, indoor plumbing , running water or central heat
It does have a wood stove , Coleman lanterns for light , cots for sleeping , a propane stove for cooking ,lawn chairs for lounging plus a battery radio but it’s dry and warm
Beats sleeping in a tent when temps are in the single digits but it ain’t camping

[Centex]

'Camping' (sans inverter ) back when I was 61. Leisurely 4k miles road trip searching for warm sun in January. Found it in Key West, didn't miss the microwave, but did enjoy the electric heated riding gear on the way