electrical schematic

[jamman]

Actually I think the connections you need are available. I think the yellow tape on the GFI outlet covers the connections you want. They should be labled - LOAD - one should be gold (hot/red or black wire) and one silver (neutral/white wire). Connect the Romex bare wire to ground/green.

At the other end of the romex connect the new outlet the same way.

[MyronL]

Right. I didn't do that the first time around... used the GFI duplex' two screws next to the plug-in holes the factory used. Assembled everything, set it back in place in trailer, and...total nada! Took it back out to the workbench, unscrewed it all, noticed a white wire seemed not quite in its hole enough, perhaps pulled out un-noticed when I unscrewed to add Y connector for new leads. Then read that yellow tape across the other end of the GFI... moved Y connections over, re-assembled the unit. At supper time it's still on the workbench.

In between all this my 8 gauge + and ground leads came off their eye loop connectors, ugly soldering needed repairs, etc. Where the hell did the time go?

Will install sometime this morning. Still have to put furnace back.

[jamman]

If you get nothing - reset the gfi - it may have popped at some point.

[jamman]

Originally Posted by MyronL

Right. I didn't do that the first time around... used the GFI duplex' two screws next to the plug-in holes the factory used. Assembled everything, set it back in place in trailer, and...total nada! Took it back out to the workbench, unscrewed it all, noticed a white wire seemed not quite in its hole enough, perhaps pulled out un-noticed when I unscrewed to add Y connector for new leads. Then read that yellow tape across the other end of the GFI... moved Y connections over, re-assembled the unit. At supper time it's still on the workbench.

That would have worked had the other wire not come out BUT you would not have had gfi protection on the remote outlet.

[MyronL]

Houston, we have lift-off!

[Ron in BC]

Way to go, when the going gets tough the tough get going A little difficult there at one point but in the end sucess.

Now you've got me thinking that I should open up my inverter and make the connections for the outlet feed internal instead of using a jumper plug. sigh

Ron

[jamman]

Congratulations.

For others who do this - I *strongly* recommend romex over the wire Myron used, and there should be a ground wire from the new outlet back to the GFI.

(This looks too much like the ETI 12V wire - and if you cut it while hot it could be exciting.)

[jamman]

Originally Posted by Ron in BC

Way to go, when the going gets tough the tough get going A little difficult there at one point but in the end sucess.

Now you've got me thinking that I should open up my inverter and make the connections for the outlet feed internal instead of using a jumper plug. sigh

Ron

It depends on where the inverter is. If it is buried under the bench I think an external plug is fine - maybe even preferred. If it shows as Myron's does then I like the internal feed.

[Vermilye]

Originally Posted by jamman

Congratulations.

For others who do this - I *strongly* recommend romex over the wire Myron used, and there should be a ground wire from the new outlet back to the GFI.

(This looks too much like the ETI 12V wire - and if you cut it while hot it could be exciting.)

2X. Code frowns on individual wires unless encased in conduit, etc. Of course there was "Knob & Tube" wiring, I doubt your trailer is old enough to qualify.

If you want stranded, boating "Romex" is available.

[dfandrews]

Originally Posted by jamman

Congratulations.

For others who do this - I *strongly* recommend romex over the wire Myron used, and there should be a ground wire from the new outlet back to the GFI.

(This looks too much like the ETI 12V wire - and if you cut it while hot it could be exciting.)

What he said, absolutely. You don't want to be convinced of the errors in a wiring method by watching your fiberglass trailer burn, or ER treatment for electrical burn or electrocution.

Don (ICC cert. elec. insp.; fire prev. eng'r)

Edit: Here is 12/2 + ground Marine
http://www.genuinedealz.com/12-3-awg...flat-by-the-ft

[MyronL]

Since no way I'm running Romex now that everything's back together again--- a few questions come to mind:

1. Doesn't the GFI duplex my new wires go into in the inverter cover all sins?
2. I should replace the new duplex on the wall with another GFI?
3. What about running a ground wire to the duplex below the newly installed one?
4. I notice all them factory installed blue and red wires are not romex, but they do carry electricity, no? Are you suggesting the factory wire is a fire hazard?
5. Romex is solid wire, my 12 gauge is stranded. You're saying solid wire is better than stranded?

[jamman]

Originally Posted by MyronL

Since no way I'm running Romex now that everything's back together again--- a few questions come to mind:

1. Doesn't the GFI duplex my new wires go into in the inverter cover all sins?
2. I should replace the new duplex on the wall with another GFI?
3. What about running a ground wire to the duplex below the newly installed one?
4. I notice all them factory installed blue and red wires are not romex, but they do carry electricity, no? Are you suggesting the factory wire is a fire hazard?
5. Romex is solid wire, my 12 gauge is stranded. You're saying solid wire is better than stranded?

1) No. The new outlet is not grounded and the wire does not have the additional protection romex provides.
2) No. You will still need a ground wire.
3) No. The ground must go to the inverter ground. (This *should* be the same as the trailer ground, but I wouldn't gamble with 120V.)
4) All of those wires are 12V, NOT 120V. 12V is not usually lethal, 120V potentially is.
5) Stranded IMHO is better than solid, but romex has an additional shield and is visually identifiable as 120V, your wire looks like 12V.

Note that I did NOT say you must replace your wire with romex, only that you need a ground. (I *would* recommend you replace it with romex - use the existing wires to pull the romex.) I believe the addition of a ground is mandatory.

Since it will not be code inspected you do not *HAVE* to do anything, but I think you would be wise to at least add a ground.

[dfandrews]

Myron,
After you posted your reply, I read it, and have been contemplating a response, if any. Then Doug (Jamman) posted a clear response that I can only agree with wholeheartedly.
I think both Doug and I have the same concerns.
(1) Your long term safety, and the durability of your methods.
(2) The safety of others who duplicate methods they see on this forum.

Take care. Thanks for listening.

Don

[MyronL]

OK I hear you. One more question-- That new outlet's whole purpose is dedicated to battery use, i.e. 12-14 volts. So where the 120 volt risk coming from?

[Jubal]

Myron
You need to provide a ground wire to create or provide a ground path for three wire grounded devices.

[Vermilye]

The inverter is supplying 120V on the pair of wires you installed. At the very least, run a ground to the inverter receptacle ground. As others have mentioned, running Romex is the best solution.

[Jubal]

Originally Posted by MyronL

OK I hear you. One more question-- That new outlet's whole purpose is dedicated to battery use, i.e. 12-14 volts. So where the 120 volt risk coming from?

The 12-14 battery voltage from "battery use" is used by the inverter to provide the 120V risk.

Myron, I remember when you installed the inverter; it is going to be the death of you yet. Listen up to the good advise or ask in advance for best end results.

[Donna D.]

We luv you Myron, please pay attention..

[jamman]

Originally Posted by MyronL

OK I hear you. One more question-- That new outlet's whole purpose is dedicated to battery use, i.e. 12-14 volts. So where the 120 volt risk coming from?

Use your voltmeter. There is 120V at that outlet!!!!! (Provided by the inverter from the batteries.) You ARE plugging in a 120V TV and DVD player - right?

[dfandrews]

Myron,
In you photo we have a 120V AC receptacle w/ white cover, a 120V AC receptacle w/ stainless steel cover, and a 12V DC outlet with a meter plugged in. I had assumed that your previous discussion was about installing a 120V AC receptacle.

If the loose red and white 12 ga. conductors are serving the 12V DC outlet, then your wiring method is similar to ETI's. I would, however, secure the conductors against all movement (similar to what ETI has done), and I would not trust crimp-on connectors in an environment subject to vibration and movement.

If we are discussing 120V AC wiring, then it must be conductors in conduit (either metallic {E.G. EMT} or non-metallic {E.G. PVC}); Or must be an approved cable assembly such as NM cable (Romex - brand name). The NM cable is (3)12 ga. conductors: hot=red or black, white=neutral, green= ground, always. All connections must be in junction boxes, and the cable must be secured at the entry to the box, and secured throughout its length against movement.

Hope this helps to clarify.
Don