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Old 03-15-2023, 02:39 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John in Santa Cruz View Post
oooh. where is that wire?
If you open the EMS you'll see a black ring with a wire going through it. The wire going through the black ring needs to be straight. Don't forget it's 120 volts inside there so make sure there is no shore power (and the inverter is off just to be safe).
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Old 03-15-2023, 03:46 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by NEWYORKHILLBILLY View Post
I see now, so the amps on the EMS are not the true draw. Maybe this is where Jon was reading the amp draw also. The Batteries I am looking at recommend a 20-amp charge. I was planning on using two 100ah.after measuring looks like i could get three in the space behind the converter. I really having a hard time deciding whether to go for the 3rd one. I have 380watts on the roof. It might be nice to have the extra storage when you go a few days with no sun. In fact, maybe if 300 Ah I would not need carry generator or converter upgrade. I like the idea of having a second way to charge but honestly just never seem to use it. Last year I decided if I do all my trips without starting it, I will stop carrying it. I wonder if a guy could set up something with a dc -dc converter and jumper cables. Just to put some power in the battery bank in a pinch.
last I looked one SOK 206AH was cheaper than 2 100AH, so get two SOKs for 412AH/5260 watt*hours... That will run my entire average camping load including a large DC compressor fridge for over a week with my solar panel disabled, and still have 50% capacity to go...

I like that the SOK have a metal case with screws so you can actually repair them, replacing a failed cell, or a failed BMS. Per several online reviews, they exclusively use prime grade 'A' cells (many of the cheaper batts use grade 'B' cells, some of which come pre-swollen).
https://www.currentconnected.com/product-tag/12v-sok/
(the main US distributor).
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Old 03-15-2023, 04:28 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by John in Santa Cruz View Post
last I looked one SOK 206AH was cheaper than 2 100AH, so get two SOKs for 412AH/5260 watt*hours... That will run my entire average camping load including a large DC compressor fridge for over a week with my solar panel disabled, and still have 50% capacity to go...

I like that the SOK have a metal case with screws so you can actually repair them, replacing a failed cell, or a failed BMS. Per several online reviews, they exclusively use prime grade 'A' cells (many of the cheaper batts use grade 'B' cells, some of which come pre-swollen).
https://www.currentconnected.com/product-tag/12v-sok/
(the main US distributor).
The 206AH SOK only has a 100 amp BMS so i would need two them to run inverter. I Am looking at the litime . They use grade A cells. I watched a few tear downs. 5 year warranty 30 day money back guaranty. I sure there not as good as the sok's But 1/2 price.
I also have specific size requirements. I need to fit behind my converter.
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Old 03-15-2023, 04:32 PM   #24
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On mine, not sure anything useful would fit behind the converter... I ended up using pretty much the whole back 'across' part of the U shaped dinette for my power upgrade...



(you can see the black SOK batts in the back of this cross-wise pic).
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Old 03-15-2023, 05:00 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by John in Santa Cruz View Post
On mine, not sure anything useful would fit behind the converter... I ended up using pretty much the whole back 'across' part of the U shaped dinette for my power upgrade...



(you can see the black SOK batts in the back of this cross-wise pic).
very nice set up! well done.
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Old 03-15-2023, 06:03 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by NEWYORKHILLBILLY View Post
The 206AH SOK only has a 100 amp BMS so i would need two them to run inverter. I Am looking at the litime . They use grade A cells. I watched a few tear downs. 5 year warranty 30 day money back guaranty. I sure there not as good as the sok's But 1/2 price.
I also have specific size requirements. I need to fit behind my converter.
Looks like the bms is similar to the SOK batteries 100 amp hour continuous. Victron batteries have the superior continuous output up the 600 amps, of course they are very expensive. Still I would have bought 1 200 amp hour victron had I thought about it. 400 amp hour continuous output, of course it’s the same price as two soks plus an eternal bms needs purchased but only 200amp continuous . At this stage of the game I would have gone for it but already made the SOK purchase.
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Old 03-15-2023, 06:22 PM   #27
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Looks like the bms is similar to the SOK batteries 100 amp hour continuous. Victron batteries have the superior continuous output up the 600 amps, of course they are very expensive. Still I would have bought 1 200 amp hour victron had I thought about it. 400 amp hour continuous output, of course it’s the same price as two soks plus an eternal bms needs purchased but only 200amp continuous . At this stage of the game I would have gone for it but already made the SOK purchase.
yes litime 100AH 100 amp bms is about the same. But if you get the 200ah plus it has a 200 amp bms. vs the sok 100 amp. But either way I don't have room for that. I am looking at the new mini . I can fit 3 behind my converter. so two 100ah 100amp BMS would give me 200amp draw for my 1500 watt inverter. No question the Victron stuff is top notch. I been happy with everything i own from Victron.

I see a Victron 200ah new on Ebay for 1435 but have to pick it up in Minnesota . if it had free shipping i might have been measuring
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Old 03-15-2023, 09:09 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NEWYORKHILLBILLY View Post
The 206AH SOK only has a 100 amp BMS so i would need two them to run inverter. I Am looking at the litime . They use grade A cells. I watched a few tear downs. 5 year warranty 30 day money back guaranty. I sure there not as good as the sok's But 1/2 price.
I also have specific size requirements. I need to fit behind my converter.
The 100 amp BMS is the reason I chose two 100 ah SOK's instead of one 206 ah SOK.

Enjoy,

Perry
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Old 03-15-2023, 09:26 PM   #29
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The 100 amp BMS is the reason I chose two 100 ah SOK's instead of one 206 ah SOK.

Enjoy,

Perry
yes the 100 amp bms is what putting me into two maybe three 100ah . Litime is a Chinese manufacture. They seem to have good reviews.
https://www.litime.com/
I am looking at their mini . instead of stuffing it into a car battery box and filling all the dead space with fillers. They built a case to fit the cells resulting in a very compact 100ah battery. They make several battery's some heated some smart some low temp shutoff . some 200 AH with 200amp bms. They have 230ah on eBay with 200 amp bms,but does not seem to show on their website. must be new.
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Old 03-15-2023, 09:30 PM   #30
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Leaving the Escape wiring to limit current flow was bad advice in my opinion anyway. The resistance is translated into heat which can melt the wires and start a fire. That's the whole reason you properly size wires for the load and fuse for the wire size.

...
The general idea of sizing wires properly is a sound one. And checking for hot spots on occasions may prevent a disaster. But in my real world experience the Escape wire is "good enough" for non-critical applications. I offer the following example: My 2 parallel 12 Volt AGM batteries were - per the manufacture - to be charged at a minimum of .4C each, or .4 X 200 AH = 80 Amps. I went 7 years using Escape provided systems with good results until my back said "no more lifting 75 pound batteries". Had the OP retained the original system - which he did not - his hypothetical LiFePo4 batteries would not have been able to load his generator past its rated output. Larger/shorter wires and higher capacity chargers would quite likely overload his generator. I'm certain this was made clear to the OP.
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Old 03-15-2023, 09:46 PM   #31
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I wired my batteries with AWG 4 for each battery to my + and - power strips, and each battery with its own fuse, but I did this before I got a 2000W inverter. 2 x AWG 4 is just barely enough for he inverter at maximum load, but I don't ever expect to actually use that. I got some 1/0 wire to replace the AWG 4 runs along with various ring terminals, but I haven't gotten around to fabricating new cables.
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Old 03-15-2023, 10:17 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by NEWYORKHILLBILLY View Post
yes litime 100AH 100 amp bms is about the same. But if you get the 200ah plus it has a 200 amp bms. vs the sok 100 amp. But either way I don't have room for that. I am looking at the new mini . I can fit 3 behind my converter. so two 100ah 100amp BMS would give me 200amp draw for my 1500 watt inverter. No question the Victron stuff is top notch. I been happy with everything i own from Victron.

I see a Victron 200ah new on Ebay for 1435 but have to pick it up in Minnesota . if it had free shipping i might have been measuring
I went with the AmpereTime 300ah, same size as the 200ah with a 200 amp bms. I really like this battery so far…. Yesterday we had some extreme weather that knocked our power out for 11 hours— I ran an extension cord from the trailer to my fish tank and used the trailer’s inverter and battery to keep the fish & coral happy. ( the litime is AmpereTime rebranded)

The new minis look great, if you can’t fit the 200ah, a pair of those should work great.
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Old 03-15-2023, 10:52 PM   #33
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Doing some research I see lots of people prefer the wildcat PD4655L over the wfco stuff.
when I did my upgrade about a year ago, I wasn't aware WFCO had a lithium upgrade available. I'd seen a few folks have WFCO's fail... I repaired one for a fellow camper in a big stick trailer during a massive heatwave, when his DC system failed, he couldn't turn on his air conditioner, as his thermostat needed 12VDC. He picked up a PD4655V from a nearby RV parts dealer, and I installed it for him the next morning when my wife got back from a run to Reno, and all my tools were in my truck. BOY was he happy when cool air came out of his A/C again. I suggested he should probably replace his dual 6V batts when he could as they looked pretty sad after getting run down to 0V. This was an elderly gentleman who was camping at the Elks Lodge in Chico because his home in the mountains was under evacuation from wildfires.

I'm *not* 100% happy with the PD4655L ... in Lithium mode, it outputs 14.6V once the charge approaches 100%, and it stays there. it really should drop to about 13.6V about 30 minutes after the current drops enough to hit 14.6V. I have been leaving my charge controller switched OFF via its breaker, and only switching it on when I need to bulk charge my batteries due to no sun for a week+, or when I know I'm going off grid and want to start with a fully charged battery. 90% of the time, even mid winter, my 350W solar panel can keep me fully charged.
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Old 03-15-2023, 11:03 PM   #34
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The WFCO works good for us, it stays at 14.4 volts for four hours, or until current drops below 5amps.

So, I wish it would do six hours for a 300amp/hour battery charge, but most times we aren’t charging from a complete discharge, so it’s fine…. And still does cell balancing.
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Old 03-15-2023, 11:19 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by John in Santa Cruz View Post
when I did my upgrade about a year ago, I wasn't aware WFCO had a lithium upgrade available. I'd seen a few folks have WFCO's fail... I repaired one for a fellow camper in a big stick trailer during a massive heatwave, when his DC system failed, he couldn't turn on his air conditioner, as his thermostat needed 12VDC. He picked up a PD4655V from a nearby RV parts dealer, and I installed it for him the next morning when my wife got back from a run to Reno, and all my tools were in my truck. BOY was he happy when cool air came out of his A/C again. I suggested he should probably replace his dual 6V batts when he could as they looked pretty sad after getting run down to 0V. This was an elderly gentleman who was camping at the Elks Lodge in Chico because his home in the mountains was under evacuation from wildfires.

I'm *not* 100% happy with the PD4655L ... in Lithium mode, it outputs 14.6V once the charge approaches 100%, and it stays there. it really should drop to about 13.6V about 30 minutes after the current drops enough to hit 14.6V. I have been leaving my charge controller switched OFF via its breaker, and only switching it on when I need to bulk charge my batteries due to no sun for a week+, or when I know I'm going off grid and want to start with a fully charged battery. 90% of the time, even mid winter, my 350W solar panel can keep me fully charged.
The newest PD lithium chargers are now two stage with a float voltage of 13.5 or 6
I just removed one from my Bigfoot, 45 amps
Standalone converter charger
My new multiplus is close the battery bank and is hooked with 2/0 it will charge at 80 amps
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Old 03-16-2023, 12:14 AM   #36
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oh, and installing the Orion-TR DC-DC to 'fix' the charge from my truck? I dont' think I should have bothered. I got the 18A version, and it only seeing like 10V from the truck by the time it gets 40+ feet(*) back from the alternator, to make 18A from 10V requires like 30A draw off the truck. I probably should have just disconnected the tug power instead of running a separate wire for the emergency brake bypass, so I could use the OE wire into the Orion. I *thought* having the Orion 18A was like a belt-and-suspenders thing, but the reality is, my solar is good enough for 90%, and there's just not enough left over for the tug charging to matter.


* - 21 foot truck, 21 foot trailer. alternator in front, battery systems in back.
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Old 03-16-2023, 07:23 AM   #37
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Had the OP retained the original system - which he did not - his hypothetical LiFePo4 batteries would not have been able to load his generator past its rated output. Larger/shorter wires and higher capacity chargers would quite likely overload his generator. I'm certain this was made clear to the OP.
The 55 Amp converter will not overload a 2000 watt generator regardless of the size of the wires running to the battery. The converter will draw less than a 1000 watts period.

What will overload the generator is forgetting and leaving other things running on 120 volt AC like leaving the refrigerator on Automatic so it switches to AC when using the generator, or leaving the AC heating element on in a dual water heater.

Where leaving Escape's 8 AWG wire becomes an issue is less with charging as that current is limited by the converter itself. The issue is with discharge, the 8 AWG wire is woefully inadequate when using adding an inverter like the OP did.
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Old 03-16-2023, 07:30 AM   #38
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oh, and installing the Orion-TR DC-DC to 'fix' the charge from my truck? I dont' think I should have bothered. I got the 18A version, and it only seeing like 10V from the truck by the time it gets 40+ feet(*) back from the alternator, to make 18A from 10V requires like 30A draw off the truck. I probably should have just disconnected the tug power instead of running a separate wire for the emergency brake bypass, so I could use the OE wire into the Orion. I *thought* having the Orion 18A was like a belt-and-suspenders thing, but the reality is, my solar is good enough for 90%, and there's just not enough left over for the tug charging to matter.


* - 21 foot truck, 21 foot trailer. alternator in front, battery systems in back.
I went with the Renogy 20 AMP DC to DC charger which can be limited to 10 AMPs.

Your solution of disconnecting the power pin on the trailer is a good one. Some suggested that just leaving out the DC to DC charger would suffice which I tried, but, it blew the 20 amp fuse on the power pin in my tow vehicle effectively disconnecting the power pin.

I want to add a switch in the trailer so I can turn off the DC to DC charger and leave the trailer plugged into the tow vehicle overnight, without the trailer trying to charge off the tow vehicle all night.
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Old 03-16-2023, 07:36 AM   #39
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The 206AH SOK only has a 100 amp BMS so i would need two them to run inverter. I Am looking at the litime . They use grade A cells. I watched a few tear downs. 5 year warranty 30 day money back guaranty. I sure there not as good as the sok's But 1/2 price.
I also have specific size requirements. I need to fit behind my converter.
I was able to shoehorn two 100ah LiFEPO4 group 27 size batteries behind the power center in my 2020 Escape19. There certainly is not room for 3 batteries there. I was able to fit a 300ah Chins Smart battery which has a 200 amp BMS and an internal heater in the storage box.
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Old 03-16-2023, 08:15 AM   #40
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I went with the Renogy 20 AMP DC to DC charger which can be limited to 10 AMPs.

Your solution of disconnecting the power pin on the trailer is a good one. Some suggested that just leaving out the DC to DC charger would suffice which I tried, but, it blew the 20 amp fuse on the power pin in my tow vehicle effectively disconnecting the power pin.

I want to add a switch in the trailer so I can turn off the DC to DC charger and leave the trailer plugged into the tow vehicle overnight, without the trailer trying to charge off the tow vehicle all night.
The Victron smart Orion dc to dc charger has an auto detect mode that shuts the device down when it detects that the alternator is no longer charging. This prevents the at rest back charging. It also has the ability to have a hard shut off. Not sure if the Renology has a similar function.
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