Grey Water Tank Sensors

[cbraswell]

Hi all!!!!

We used our tailer back in mid-June on a trip. At the end of the weekend trip the grey tank sensor read full. On our way out, we dumped at the campground dump station. When the grey water stopped, I took off the hose and capped the outlet. I went inside to check the tank monitor panel and it read it was still 1/3 full. The ground at the dump station was sloped slightly downhill away from the direction of the wastewater outlet on the trailer so I thought maybe there was still some water in the tank that needed to be drained. When I got back to our camper storage area on a flat pad, I went through the process again of dumping the grey water. Little to no water came out but the monitor panel still read it was 1/3 full. So i backed the camper up and put the wheels (opposite of the drain outlet) on blocks to increase the drainage slope. Still no more water came out and it still read 1/3 full.

Feeling very confident that the tank is actually empty, I felt the only other explanation I could think of is that the sensors are gummed up and not reading correctly. So I filled the tank completely through the shower drain. It filled all up to the shower pan where I then turned off the water source. After it was full, I re-dumped it again. A few observations from this exercise:

1. After fully draining the grey and checking the monitor panel, the grey tank indicator illuminated all three lights from E to 2/3. Then after a second the 2/3 light dimmed off and it read 1/3 and E.
2. When the water tank reached maximum capacity, I noticed water was dripping from where the tank met the bottom side of the trailer. I have the extra spray foam on the underside of the trail so it was difficult to pin-point exactly where it was coming from. You can see the water dripping in the attached photo. The angle piece of metal in the photo is where the frame of the exterior step is connected.

So my question for you.
- Has anyone experienced or seen this issue occur. If so, what was the culprit and what was the fix.
- I read about a product called 'Captian Phab Purge Tank Cleaner' that apparently is supposed to help clean sensors if they are reading incorrectly. Our tailer is a 2019 and has had normal use so I wouldn’t think there has been enough residue to gum up the sensors at this point. Has anyone had any used this or would caution against it?
- My assumption was the water that was dripping at the stair framing connection was an automatic overflow for the grey tank. Is this a correct assumption or could there possibly be an issue/leak in the grey tank.

Any help would be great.

Carson

[ATTACH][/ATTACH]

[Bea]

Hi Carson, Sorry to hear this but wanted to let you know that you are not alone in regards to your leak. Unfortunately, there is no automatic overflow valve - your leaking water symptoms are identical to many others here and point to a grey tank leak. Check out this sticky thread on the grey tank leak: https://www.escapeforum.org/forums/f...tml#post354673.

Basically, ETI is aware of this (and have corrected the problem on new builds) so we suggest you contact them about this. Apparently, some folks here have fixed it themselves, or had it fixed but we plan to bring ours back to ETI for this warranty repair. Regarding the sensors, our sensors seem to be working well so no experience with tank cleaners, sorry! Hopefully, others will pipe in on this for you. Hope your grey tank is remedied soon! -Bea

[Shiny]

I hope you are able to diagnose and resolve the leak issue with minimal stress.

We have not seen a leak but our sensor is malfunctioning (shows 2/3 full when empty) so I'm interested in hearing how others resolved this. I have not tried to resolve, figuring we would be OK if we did not go through more than one full fresh water tank. I read one thread that described filling with detergent, draining, repeating this, and ending with a sensor panel or PCBA replacement.

[C&G in FL]

Originally Posted by Shiny

I hope you are able to diagnose and resolve the leak issue with minimal stress.

We have not seen a leak but our sensor is malfunctioning (shows 2/3 full when empty) so I'm interested in hearing how others resolved this. I have not tried to resolve, figuring we would be OK if we did not go through more than one full fresh water tank. I read one thread that described filling with detergent, draining, repeating this, and ending with a sensor panel or PCBA replacement.

It is more likely caused by a faulty chip on the unit’s circuit board than by a dirty sensor.

[Shiny]

Originally Posted by C&G in FL

It is more likely caused by a faulty chip on the unit’s circuit board than by a dirty sensor.

My apology for diverting from OP's questions but can the circuit be re-calibrated?

When I choose to attempt repair, I will look for an existing thread or open a new one.

[alanmalk]

Originally Posted by Shiny

I hope you are able to diagnose and resolve the leak issue with minimal stress.

We have not seen a leak but our sensor is malfunctioning (shows 2/3 full when empty) so I'm interested in hearing how others resolved this.
...

I have had a "sticking" 1/3rd light, and occasionally a very slow 2/3rds light on the grey tank sensor. My solution is to clean out the grey tank under pressure.

This bit of nasty work is accomplished by using a 6 foot (more or less) length of surgical tubing - the brown floppy ultra flexible stuff. I think I got it on Ebay. Start by attaching a hose fitting with a shutoff valve at one end. Feed the other up the dump valve into the grey tank. Sometimes a bit of soap helps the tubing slide past the various 90 degree bends and into the tank. When the entire tube is fed in I believe 2 to 3 feet are loose in the tank. Attach the shutoff valve to a garden hose and let it rip. The loose end in the tank flops around wildly while spraying everywhere. Eventually it cleans the sensors of accumulated brown gunk which drains out in impressive quantities.

I seem to need to do this after about 150 days of camping. (About 2 seasons of campground hosting.) And you may ask: "How do I know it isn't the circuit chips?" Easy; The black tank 1/3rd failed once, and when cleaning didn't fix it I switched sensors to Horst brand. When that didn't fix it I disconnected all sensors and it still indicated a 1/3rd full black tank. At that point a new circuit board fixed the issue.

Give it a try - but you probably don't want the neighbors watching...


(PS, since you are my neighbors you are welcome to come over and look at my apparatus.)

[C&G in FL]

Originally Posted by Shiny

My apology for diverting from OP's questions but can the circuit be re-calibrated?

When I choose to attempt repair, I will look for an existing thread or open a new one.

I do not think it can be calibrated. It is a simple board with rows of LEDs. A chip reads input from the sensors and lights up the appropriate LED(s). My son mapped the board and replaced what he said was a readily available 42 cent chip.

[Brian B-P]

The "sensors" are just contacts - you can use bolts if you want. The sensors are connected to each other through network of resistors so the meter just switches display based on the resistance between the two wires going to the meter panel - there are no fancy electronic devices here. Sometimes an electrical connection goes bad in the resistor package or the wires connecting it to the sensors. A sensor fouling is much more common.

To see an example of the package of resistors and attached wires, do a Google search for "KIB replacement tank wire harness"

[ATHiker]

In the files section, you can find the KIB Tank Monitoring Trouble Shooting Manual.

[gbaglo]

If it's any comfort, I fill my fresh water tank until water is shooting out of the vent tube and it reads 2/3 full. Been like that for years.

[C&G in FL]

Originally Posted by Brian B-P

The "sensors" are just contacts - you can use bolts if you want. The sensors are connected to each other through network of resistors so the meter just switches display based on the resistance between the two wires going to the meter panel - there are no fancy electronic devices here. Sometimes an electrical connection goes bad in the resistor package or the wires connecting it to the sensors. A sensor fouling is much more common.

To see an example of the package of resistors and attached wires, do a Google search for "KIB replacement tank wire harness"

I (respectfully) disagree somewhat. Yes, sensor fouling is common, depending upon what goes in the gray water holding tank. However, when my gray tank sensors suddenly started reading full when the tank was empty, thinking that something had dried on the sensor, I tried three different methods without correcting the problem. ETI suggested I had a bad circuit board after I detailed the three methods I had used. A follow-up call to KIB resulted in a tech telling me that circuit board malfunction was often responsible for faulty readings. I believe that ETI is now installing Horst sensors in all trailers. In 2015 I had to supply my own. While not perfect, they are less susceptible to fouling than some other sensors. Based on my own experience and what I was told by the monitor’s manufacturer (KIB), when I read a post describing a monitor that continues to provide known incorrect levels and cleaning has been attempted, having had two of their circuit boards malfunction, I automatically suspect circuit board problems rather than fouled sensors. Sensor fouling SHOULD be more common, but in my case, board failure has twice been the culprit. Fortunately, it is easy to replace.

[escape artist]

Originally Posted by C&G in FL

I do not think it can be calibrated. It is a simple board with rows of LEDs. A chip reads input from the sensors and lights up the appropriate LED(s). My son mapped the board and replaced what he said was a readily available 42 cent chip.

Hi: C&G in FL... Sounds like your son is a real "Chip" off the old board!!! It's not "Rocket science". Alf
escape artist N.S. of Lake Erie

[Shiny]

Originally Posted by alanmalk

....
This bit of nasty work is accomplished by using a 6 foot (more or less) length of surgical tubing - the brown floppy ultra flexible stuff. I think I got it on Ebay. Start by attaching a hose fitting with a shutoff valve at one end. Feed the other up the dump valve into the grey tank. Sometimes a bit of soap helps the tubing slide past the various 90 degree bends and into the tank. When the entire tube is fed in I believe 2 to 3 feet are loose in the tank. Attach the shutoff valve to a garden hose and let it rip. The loose end in the tank flops around wildly while spraying everywhere. Eventually it cleans the sensors of accumulated brown gunk which drains out in impressive quantities....

Give it a try - but you probably don't want the neighbors watching...
....

Uggghhh

This definitely sounds messy. I don't want to drain a lot of gunk at home.

So I guess I'll have to locate a dump station near home and try a cleaning method that uses a full tank.

Do chemicals work? Ice cubes? Other methods that don't need the dump valve open?

[cpaharley2008]

Originally Posted by Shiny

Uggghhh

This definitely sounds messy. I don't want to drain a lot of gunk at home.

So I guess I'll have to locate a dump station near home and try a cleaning method that uses a full tank.

Do chemicals work? Ice cubes? Other methods that don't need the dump valve open?

Your grey tank should not have a lot of gunk unless you dump food which we try to avoid.....

[Shiny]

I bought the trailer used so can only guess at history.

This comment suggested a possible mess: "Eventually it cleans the sensors of accumulated brown gunk which drains out in impressive quantities.."

[Sands]

We've had some luck with dishwasher gel (like Cascade). Fill tank 1/2 to 3/4 with water, put a cup of dishwasher gel down the drain, drive around for a half hour to agitate, empty tank. The gel is designed to remove exactly the kind of gunk that gums the sensors, is low sudsing, and clean rinsing. Cheap and easy fix. If it works...

[Shiny]

Thank you Sands. That's a simple thing to try.

We are headed out tomorrow for our first "dry camping" experience so I'll give your method a try before we find a dump station. We are not too concerned about the broken sensor for now... just an annoyance.

[alanmalk]

Originally Posted by cpaharley2008

Your grey tank should not have a lot of gunk unless you dump food which we try to avoid.....

Before we wash the dishes we wipe clean with paper towels. Kitchenware is almost clean enough to reuse when it goes into the sink. "Gunk Happens", especially when camping for 90 days at a time. Its a combination of soap scum, toothpaste, microscopic food residue and bacterial growth. Can't be helped unless you are willing to take extreme measures to clean the tank frequently.

[cpaharley2008]

Never camped 90 days straight........

[dfandrews]

Originally Posted by cpaharley2008

Never camped 90 days straight........

Ah, the perils of campground hosting!!!