Home shore power?

[garyoregon]

I am considering getting an outlet installed to plug my 19 in at home. Can someone give me the specs for what I need to ask the electrician to install? I am getting a 50 AMP 220 installed for an electric vehicle charger. Can I use that with an adapter, or do I need a dedicated outlet?
BTW, I know I can just plug an extension cord into 110, but if I want to run the AC, I assume I need the 30 AMP service.

[Ops]

Thanks for asking the question.
I reached out to my local electrician to ask a (dumb) question. After we'd had a 30amp exterior drop for a generator hookup during an outage, I wondered if the switching at the main box provided power to that 30amp drop when it was switched back to the grid. (I thought it wasn't a live outlet, but it was worth asking since I'd gladly use it as a 'shore power' outlet).
I was assured, that unless we switch to generator mode, the 30amp exterior outlet is DEAD.
NO POWER. NOTHING.
My response...damn...too bad...okay, once we get the trailer, I'll call you to update our hookup.

[adrianp12]

You should be able to tell your electrician you want a 30 amp RV outlet 120V installed. It’s a fairly common thing they should know about.

I don’t know if there is a device to step down 50 amp 220v for your purpose....Such a device must be more than just a plug adapter though.

[AKCamper]

Originally Posted by garyoregon

I am considering getting an outlet installed to plug my 19 in at home. Can someone give me the specs for what I need to ask the electrician to install? I am getting a 50 AMP 220 installed for an electric vehicle charger. Can I use that with an adapter, or do I need a dedicated outlet?
BTW, I know I can just plug an extension cord into 110, but if I want to run the AC, I assume I need the 30 AMP service.

I assume you plan on using your trailer for a vacation home for visitors since an extension cord will power the AC by itself. If you plan on using the AC, the charger, the hot water heater on shore power, refrigerator, and possibly a microwave I would definitely have the electrician wire up an additional 30 amp plug. I wouldn’t try using the 220 volt plug myself. Not sure what the vehicle plug looks like (two hots, a neutral and a ground?) the plug could be rather expensive and what if you wanted to charge your car while your trailer was plugged in? We plug into relatives power with an adapter on the end of our 30 amp cord while visiting but the hot water heater, refrigerator are both on propane.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by garyoregon

Can someone give me the specs for what I need to ask the electrician to install?

If you want to plug the trailer's cord directly into a receptacle, you need a 30 amp (or greater) 120 volt circuit with a TT-30 receptacle.
Example: Leviton 30 Amp, 125 Volt, Nema TT-30R, 2P, 3W, flush mtg receptacle, straight blade, industrial grade, 7313-S00

Originally Posted by garyoregon

I am getting a 50 AMP 220 installed for an electric vehicle charger. Can I use that with an adapter, or do I need a dedicated outlet?

Yes, you can unplug the electric vehicle service equipment (EVSE) and plug the trailer into the same receptacle, but only if three things are true:

1. the EVSE is plugged into a receptacle (some are wired in permanently, so there's no receptacle to share)
2. the receptacle is accessible with the EVSE installed (sometimes the EVSE covers the receptacle), and
3. the receptacle includes a neutral terminal.

Some 240 volt receptacles have two "line" terminals, and no neutral - that won't work. Many 240 volt receptacles have the two line terminals plus a neutral (and a ground), including the NEMA 14-50 type which is used for kitchen ranges and for RVs with 50-amp service... and likely the receptacle for your EVSE.
For an example, here's a NEMA 14-50 receptacle: Leviton 50 Amp, 125/250 Volt, NEMA 14-50R, 3P, 4W, Flush Mtg Receptacle, Straight Blade, Industrial Grade, Grounding, Side Wired, Steel Strap, 279-S00

Of course using the same receptacle for the EVSE and the RV means that you can't charge the electric car while the receptacle and circuit are in use by an RV. That's okay briefly, but would I think that would be very limiting for an extended period.

Originally Posted by adrianp12

You should be able to tell your electrician you want a 30 amp RV outlet 120V installed. It’s a fairly common thing they should know about.

I don't know how many residential electricians have ever installed a TT-30 receptacle, but it should be no problem for them to do if they have heard of it or just buy the right receptacle (even Home Depot carries them). If you just specify 30 amp 120 volt and they don't know about RV connections, you could be given another style of receptacle and would need to build a custom adapter.

This assumes the installation of a separate receptacle from the EVSE, on a separate circuit.

Originally Posted by adrianp12

I don’t know if there is a device to step down 50 amp 220v for your purpose....Such a device must be more than just a plug adapter though.

The 240 volt circuit is actually two 120 volt circuits, out of phase and with a shared neutral. That means that it can be split into two 120 volt circuits... as long as the neutral wire is accessible. Nothing more than a plug-in adapter is required, and those adapters are routinely available - we use them to plug 30-amp travel trailers into 50 amp / 240 volt service provided in campgrounds for larger RVs. The 30 amp end gets its power from just one line of the 50 amp / 240 volt circuit.
A common example of this adapter is the Camco 55175

Originally Posted by AKCamper

I wouldn’t try using the 220 volt plug myself. Not sure what the vehicle plug looks like (two hots, a neutral and a ground?) the plug could be rather expensive...

If the receptacle has a neutral, the adapter is no problem. If it is for 50 amps it is probably a NEMA 14-50 receptacle, which is exactly what is used by 50 amp RVs, so the adapters (as mentioned above) are available in every RV parts store.


Everywhere anyone has referred to "220" volts, I have used "240" volts. The North American standard is now 240 volts, but actual voltage can vary significantly. The devices (receptacles, plugs, etc) are usually rated for 250 volts.

[Vermilye]

If you have not already installed the EV receptacle, consider one of these. It provides a 50 amp 240v, 30 amp 120v & 15 amp 120V receptacle, is often found in campgrounds, and you won't need an adapter, (at least for the RV) or need to unplug one to feed the other.

[MyronL]

I just don't see a problem here. I run a standard 120 line from my garage to the trailer and have turned the AC on for a few hours (primarily to make certain it works) without issues. If then I would need to fire up any additional electrical appliances, if fearful of an overload why not simply turn off the AC temporarily, to lighten things up?

[cpaharley2008]

I agree, all I have is 15 amp circuit and plugged in 24/7/365. I do not have electric option in water heater. If I need to operate the a/c and electric refrigerator I switch to propane while using the a/c.

[C&G in FL]

Originally Posted by MyronL

I just don't see a problem here. I run a standard 120 line from my garage to the trailer and have turned the AC on for a few hours (primarily to make certain it works) without issues. If then I would need to fire up any additional electrical appliances, if fearful of an overload why not simply turn off the AC temporarily, to lighten things up?

With all due respect, I would suggest if the OP is getting a 50a outlet installed for charging an electric vehicle, why not add a 30a RV outlet to the mix and utilize the trailer’s 30a capacity to the fullest and as intended without having to juggle appliance usage. I would be curious to know what a “standard 120 line” constitutes. Zipcord (AKA LAMP CORD), typically 18 or 16 AWG is “standard” on table lamps and alarm clocks but not on air conditioners. 6 AWG is “standard” for each 120 volt leg on a 240v tankless water heater, but would be overkill for the Dometic Penguin. Overload is not the question here, it is operating the air conditioner with inadequate power levels. Unless using a heavy duty extension cord of at least 12 AWG, I wouldn’t be running the A/C. One must consider voltage drop over distance. What may be 120 volts at the outlet, could be well below that 100 feet away at the other end of an extension cord. It is one thing to use an extension cord and a charger to keep batteries topped off in storage, but all together different to safely run certain appliances.

[MyronL]

Makes sense, I guess, since he needs the 50a outlet for a different vehicle anyway. My 20 amp cord runs about 40 feet to the trailer and has worked well. It's heavy duty but never checked what gauge.

[wackyburggeezer]

As the OP has not specified the NEMA configuration of the EV receptacle that is being installed, it's hard to be sure what the installing electrician will be providing as far as wire size, length, and number of conductors, or circuit breaker ampacity. With 35+ years running electrical construction projects, my advice is to spend the money to pull an electrical permit and have the work inspected by the appropriate agency. He'll still have homeowners' insurance coverage if there's an incident involving the install. YMMV, but that's my $0.02US.

[Cyclones forever]

I had an electrician friend come over and install a 30 amp breaker - run a dedicated 30 amp circuit from the breaker box. Ran the wires through conduit inside the garage and then drilled a hole to the outside and installed a plug in for RV's and I keep the trailer plugged in 24/7. Worked out great. I paid him $200. Well worth the cost as I am not an electrician and was not interested in getting fried.

[barry]

Originally Posted by garyoregon

I am considering getting an outlet installed to plug my 19 in at home. Can someone give me the specs for what I need to ask the electrician to install? I am getting a 50 AMP 220 installed for an electric vehicle charger. Can I use that with an adapter, or do I need a dedicated outlet?
BTW, I know I can just plug an extension cord into 110, but if I want to run the AC, I assume I need the 30 AMP service.

You could get him to install a small sub-panel in the area where you want the 50 amp 220 plug and then he can run the 220V vehicle plug and a 110V 30 amp trailer plug from the panel. This will give you breakers for each circuit.
Barry

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by cpaharley2008

I agree, all I have is 15 amp circuit and plugged in 24/7/365. I do not have electric option in water heater. If I need to operate the a/c and electric refrigerator I switch to propane while using the a/c.

The air conditioner is on a separate 20 amp circuit in the trailer for a reason. Even if you can run the air conditioner on a 15 amp circuit without tripping the circuit breaker, that doesn't mean that the 14 gauge wiring isn't excessively loaded.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by Vermilye

If you have not already installed the EV receptacle, consider one of these. It provides a 50 amp 240v, 30 amp 120v & 15 amp 120V receptacle, is often found in campgrounds, and you won't need an adapter, (at least for the RV) or need to unplug one to feed the other.

That would be an excellent choice for the RV parking spot, but if the idea is to plug the EV charging station (EVSE) into it... why tie the EV and RV to plugging in at the same location, if they're each getting their own receptacle?

[Vermilye]

Since the question was would I be able to use an adapter with a 240V, 50 amp receptacle, I assumed the two vehicles would be near each other.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by Vermilye

Since the question was would I be able to use an adapter with a 240V, 50 amp receptacle, I assumed the two vehicles would be near each other.

Near enough for a cord anyway, perhaps with a long extension. I plug my RVs into an outlet which is inside my garage, and had originally been installed to run a welder (so I had to change the receptacle from NEMA 6-50 to NEMA 14-50 to use a 50-amp RV cord directly), but I need to use an extension. If I were installing separate receptacles for EV charging and RV power on new circuits, I would want put them where I wouldn't need to use extension cords.

[Cal]

hey guys. new escape owner here (new to me 2012 Escape 5.0). So what I am gathering here is 120v / 20A will indeed run the A/C while propane runs the water heater and fridge and solar will light the camper up. I picked my trailer up a few weeks ago and while pulling through southern Utah ran into a hail storm which destroyed the solar panel. I have it in storage now awaiting parts to show up and haven't tested everything i'd like to yet.

this is going to be a great ride... Looking forward

[cpaharley2008]

I'm tapped into a 15 amp circuit at home, I do not use the a/c at home, but I think if you turn off the converter and all other a/c users I can start and run a/c for a short period. But 20 amp will definitely work.

[Bill and Earline]

Cal,
Living with a 15 amp or 20 amp circuit takes a little getting used to, if you plan to use the AC. The AC unit will use most of the 15 amps, and so little else can be run at the same time.

What gets people sometimes is they forget about the converter which is basically a heavy duty battery charger. It can use maybe 8 amps, so might cause a problem if it decides to charge your house battery or batteries. Another one to watch out for is a two way water heater with the electric element on. That also uses probably 6 or 7 amps, but you may have only propane. The fridge is a medium user, maybe 5 amps, depending on which model or size you have. Of course, no draw if on propane.

Lights use very little if they are LEDs, like 1 amp for all of them, but probably way more for incandescent, which you may have with an older trailer. Fans and even the furnace use very little, as do most televisions and other players.

If you have a display that shows amps being used, try turning things on and off to see what draws what.

People have plenty of advice on this forum, some of which gets very advanced very quickly. Good Luck.