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11-17-2022, 03:54 PM
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#21
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Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Little Rock, Arkansas
Trailer: 2014 Escape 19' and 2016 GMC Yukon SLT SUV.
Posts: 500
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveSgt
So my idea to assist you with troubleshooting won't work. During a power outage here I found out that I could run my 1,400W microwave on a 1,200W inverter and a 70Ah LiFePo4 battery by dialing the microwave's power down to 60%.
Anyway, to answer your question about battery capacity: This blog from Victron explains it very well, and saves me a LOT of typing:
www.victronenergy.com/blog/2015/03/30/batteries-lithium-ion-vs-agm/
I do know that AGM batteries are often rated at a C/20 load. That means if your battery has a 225_Ah capacity, they got that number by finding out that it lasted for 20 hours when driving an 11.25A load.
If your microwave is drawing 8.3A at 120VAC from your inverter, your inverter is drawing at least 83A from your battery, and perhaps over 100A at start-up. At that level of current, one needs to look at what the voltage drop is (because of inherent resistance) between the battery terminals and the inverter terminals. A larger gauge wire, a shorter wire, a better crimp or soldering job, tighter bolts on the lugs, cleaner lugs, and other factors can make big differences when the current is that high.
One troubleshooting thing you can do would be to run some other static load, like a space heater, hot plate, or blow drier with a known wattage at or below the power of your microwave, and measure the voltage drop between your inverter and your battery. Make sure you make that measurement on both the positive and negative wire. (I.e. connect one probe of your volt meter to the battery terminal, and one to the inverter terminal.)
If that voltage is less than 0.1V, then your inverter to battery wiring is not the problem. If it's close to 1V or more, you've got (dangerously) excessive resistance between the battery and the inverter.
Also, use your own separate volt meter to measure how much your battery voltage drops on a similar static load. That could indicate a failing battery.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rubicon327
If it was working perfectly it shouldn't be the wiring then. I see it is pretty cold there in Little Rock. Is it possible that temperature is impacting your batteries since they are in the front storage box? Your Interstate GC2's as spec'd should not have a lower voltage than original. I would disconnect the batteries from all load and solar input and put your voltmeter across the pair and across them individually. With solar input you may have been reading what is being sent to the batteries and not it's actual charge. It's possible you could have a bad cell and the problem is only apparent when you put a large load on.
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Hi rubicon327,
First of all, I must state that my electrical knowledge is limited. I may not be able to perform all the tests mentioned on the earlier threads.
My microwave oven does have a power control, but not in high or low settings. It has Manu like Meat, potatoes and beverages etc., we never use the power control; we just enter time and press start button.
This was the test I did this pm. I tested the batteries at the terminals and found the batteries were fully charged at 13.5V. I turned on the inverter remote switch and the display screen shown 13.7V input power , but no output power in Bars shown. I then plugged in and start a hair dryer, 120v, 60 Hz and 16A on low setting. The hair dryer started blowing air for less than 10 seconds and then the inverter shut off. I noticed the voltage input power dropped from 13.7v to 11.0v on the inverter remote display screen. but this time the inverter restarted itself after one minute. I was not able to perform the test on the inverter terminal because the red terminal does not have any exposed wire. One strange thing I found that I was not able to record any DCv at the battery terminal when the inverter was turn on. I don't know if I messed up the multimeter which is a good one, Fluke 324Plus.
Tonny LR
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11-17-2022, 04:25 PM
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#22
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Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Arvada, Colorado
Trailer: 2015 E'21 - 'Velocity'. Tow: Toyota Tacoma V6, 4X4, manual.
Posts: 1,692
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tonny LR
Hi rubicon327,
First of all, I must state that my electrical knowledge is limited. I may not be able to perform all the tests mentioned on the earlier threads.
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That's where the Forum collective knowledge comes in.
...I don't know if I messed up the multimeter which is a good one...
That's where the helper comes in. One person operates the meter, the other, the hair dryer. Not getting a reading may be as simple as one meter wire working loose.
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11-17-2022, 04:30 PM
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#23
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Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Arvada, Colorado
Trailer: 2015 E'21 - 'Velocity'. Tow: Toyota Tacoma V6, 4X4, manual.
Posts: 1,692
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tonny LR
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I then plugged in and start a hair dryer, 120v, 60 Hz and 16A on low setting.
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Could you double check those numbers for us? 120VAC @ 16 Amps is 1900+ watts. That sounds extremely high for any portable appliance, much less one on "low". Are these numbers coming from the label on the hair dryer?
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11-17-2022, 04:41 PM
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#24
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Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Little Rock, Arkansas
Trailer: 2014 Escape 19' and 2016 GMC Yukon SLT SUV.
Posts: 500
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveSgt
I noticed that. But batteries age by cycles as much or more than by time. And lead/acid (including AGM) age by depth of discharge and by heat (higher charge/discharge currents age them faster).
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When I made long trips with shore power hookup , drove 6-7 hours per day for 6-8 times during 2-3 weeks period , I always ran my 4.3 cu ft. absorption refrigerator using 12V with a 90 watts solar panel without problem. I don't know if this contributes to my batteries to age faster.
Tonny LR
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11-17-2022, 04:48 PM
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#25
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Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Arvada, Colorado
Trailer: 2015 E'21 - 'Velocity'. Tow: Toyota Tacoma V6, 4X4, manual.
Posts: 1,692
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tonny LR
When I made long trips with shore power hookup , drove 6-7 hours per day for 6-8 times during 2-3 weeks period , I always ran my 4.3 cu ft. absorption refrigerator using 12V with a 90 watts solar panel without problem. I don't know if this contributes to my batteries to age faster.
Tonny LR
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If I ran my 6 cu ft absorption 'fridge like you did, I would flatten my batteries. But, even so, that is only "6-8" discharge cycles. Hardly a problem for good batteries.
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11-17-2022, 04:49 PM
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#26
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Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Little Rock, Arkansas
Trailer: 2014 Escape 19' and 2016 GMC Yukon SLT SUV.
Posts: 500
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alanmalk
Could you double check those numbers for us? 120VAC @ 16 Amps is 1900+ watts. That sounds extremely high for any portable appliance, much less one on "low". Are these numbers coming from the label on the hair dryer?
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BaBylissPRO TT® Tourmaline Titanium Travel Dryer (Red)
Item No. BABTT053T. 1000 watts
Tonny LR
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11-17-2022, 06:10 PM
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#27
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Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Lanesboro, MN, between Whalan and Fountain, Minnesota
Trailer: 2016 Bigfoot 25RQ - (2018 Escape 5.0 sold)
Posts: 2,174
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tonny LR
This was the test I did this pm. I tested the batteries at the terminals and found the batteries were fully charged at 13.5V. I turned on the inverter remote switch and the display screen shown 13.7V input power , but no output power in Bars shown.
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Flooded lead acid batteries will register 12.8v at rest when new. If they're registering 13.7 something is charging them.
Is your solar hooked up?
Are you connected to 30a power?
Totaly remove any power sources and/or disconnect the batteries at the battery posts, wait 2-4 hours and then test your batteries with absolutely nothing hooked up to them. I'm guessing your batteries are ruined, but I've been wrong before.
Enjoy,
Perry
__________________
Those who know everything use pens. Intelligent people use pencils.
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11-17-2022, 06:33 PM
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#28
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Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Arvada, Colorado
Trailer: 2015 E'21 - 'Velocity'. Tow: Toyota Tacoma V6, 4X4, manual.
Posts: 1,692
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tonny LR
BaBylissPRO TT® Tourmaline Titanium Travel Dryer (Red)
Item No. BABTT053T. 1000 watts
Tonny LR
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Ok, thanks. Just doing the simple math: 8.33 amps at 110 VAC, 80 amps @ 12.5 VDC. Picking 12.5 VDC as a guesstimate since even batteries (lead-acid) in good condition will sag under that amperage load. The 80 amps number will be higher in a real world situation due to normal losses.
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11-17-2022, 07:12 PM
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#29
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Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Little Rock, Arkansas
Trailer: 2014 Escape 19' and 2016 GMC Yukon SLT SUV.
Posts: 500
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Perry Butler
Flooded lead acid batteries will register 12.8v at rest when new. If they're registering 13.7 something is charging them.
Is your solar hooked up?
Are you connected to 30a power?
Totaly remove any power sources and/or disconnect the batteries at the battery posts, wait 2-4 hours and then test your batteries with absolutely nothing hooked up to them. I'm guessing your batteries are ruined, but I've been wrong before.
Enjoy,
Perry
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My batteries is constantly charged by a 90 watts solar panel.
Tonny LR
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11-17-2022, 08:25 PM
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#30
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Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Arvada, Colorado
Trailer: 2015 E'21 - 'Velocity'. Tow: Toyota Tacoma V6, 4X4, manual.
Posts: 1,692
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tonny LR
My batteries is constantly charged by a 90 watts solar panel.
Tonny LR
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Take your resting voltage measurement a few hours after sunset.
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11-18-2022, 11:40 AM
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#31
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Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Little Rock, Arkansas
Trailer: 2014 Escape 19' and 2016 GMC Yukon SLT SUV.
Posts: 500
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Perry Butler
Flooded lead acid batteries will register 12.8v at rest when new. If they're registering 13.7 something is charging them.
Is your solar hooked up?
Are you connected to 30a power?
Totaly remove any power sources and/or disconnect the batteries at the battery posts, wait 2-4 hours and then test your batteries with absolutely nothing hooked up to them. I'm guessing your batteries are ruined, but I've been wrong before.
Enjoy,
Perry
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Hi Perry,
I followed your guidance and had done these few steps. Covered the solar panel, waited for 30 minutes, disconnected positive and negative batteries terminal, but batteries are still in series connection and the solar charger showed no input power. I will test the batteries in two hours and report back. If my batteries are dead, why LED lights inside the cabinet are working with no shore power hookup? BTW my meter is working. User error. did not switch from AC to DC mode.
Yes. Little rock is cold but no snowing.
Tonny LR
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11-18-2022, 12:47 PM
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#32
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Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Little Rock, Arkansas
Trailer: 2014 Escape 19' and 2016 GMC Yukon SLT SUV.
Posts: 500
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13.2 v is the reading on the Fluke multimeter after 2 hours, with nothing connected to the 2 x 6v batteries. Will do another test after 4 hours.
Tonny LR
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11-18-2022, 12:55 PM
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#33
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Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Lanesboro, MN, between Whalan and Fountain, Minnesota
Trailer: 2016 Bigfoot 25RQ - (2018 Escape 5.0 sold)
Posts: 2,174
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tonny LR
13.2 v is the reading on the Fluke multimeter after 2 hours, with nothing connected to the 2 x 6v batteries. Will do another test after 4 hours.
Tonny LR
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Run your water pump for 20 seconds or so to help get rid of any surface charge. If you're winterized just turn your lights on for 5 minutes.
If you're at 12.7 or higher you have a wiring problem. I'd reconnect all your connections from the battery to the inverter. You could even have a converter problem. Good luck!
Enjoy,
Perry
__________________
Those who know everything use pens. Intelligent people use pencils.
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11-18-2022, 02:56 PM
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#34
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Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Arvada, Colorado
Trailer: 2015 E'21 - 'Velocity'. Tow: Toyota Tacoma V6, 4X4, manual.
Posts: 1,692
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And if all possible - take a voltage reading right at the inverter. Poke the Fluke lead right through the red insulation at the connection. Hold them tight to the metal and have the helper fire up the hair dryer.
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11-18-2022, 03:07 PM
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#35
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Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Little Rock, Arkansas
Trailer: 2014 Escape 19' and 2016 GMC Yukon SLT SUV.
Posts: 500
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alanmalk
And if all possible - take a voltage reading right at the inverter. Poke the Fluke lead right through the red insulation at the connection. Hold them tight to the metal and have the helper fire up the hair dryer.
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Will try to do it tomorrow and report back. I plan to remove the inverter from the floor and check connections. Thank you.
TonnyLR
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11-18-2022, 03:25 PM
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#36
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Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Little Rock, Arkansas
Trailer: 2014 Escape 19' and 2016 GMC Yukon SLT SUV.
Posts: 500
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Perry Butler
Run your water pump for 20 seconds or so to help get rid of any surface charge. If you're winterized just turn your lights on for 5 minutes.
If you're at 12.7 or higher you have a wiring problem. I'd reconnect all your connections from the battery to the inverter. You could even have a converter problem. Good luck!
Enjoy,
Perry
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I turned on the pump and the LED lights. They did not come. No residual DC power when DC batteries were disconnected to the trailer. The reading after 4 hours is still the same 13.2v.
The wiring from the inverter to the batteries are the original ETI installation. I plan to check inverter for loose wiring tomorrow when I dismantle it from the floor. The only wiring modifications are: Adding 2 breakers to the subpanel, adding 2 outlets at kitchen area tying wires in the junction box at the GFCI outlet, kitchen wall of the trailer entrance. The good news is that batteries appeared to be good. Thank you for your help.
TonnyLR
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11-18-2022, 03:58 PM
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#37
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Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Burlington Twp., New Jersey
Trailer: 2010 Escape 19
Posts: 7,146
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tonny LR
I turned on the pump and the LED lights. They did not come. No residual DC power when DC batteries were disconnected to the trailer. The reading after 4 hours is still the same 13.2v.
...The good news is that batteries appeared to be good.
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Perry meant for you to put a small load on the batteries while still connected to eliminate any surface charge on the batteries. It sounds like you were already disconnected. It does seem that the batteries are ok based on your voltage reading but there are instances where a battery reads fine until it is under load if it has a bad cell. Maybe the electrical gurus can weigh in more on that. The safest bet to definitively rule out the batteries would be to pull them and do a load test. Not sure if an automotive shop can load test a 6V battery or if they would just do the pair in series.
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11-18-2022, 04:28 PM
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#38
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Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Lanesboro, MN, between Whalan and Fountain, Minnesota
Trailer: 2016 Bigfoot 25RQ - (2018 Escape 5.0 sold)
Posts: 2,174
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You have flooded lead acid batteries?
If so, there is no way they should read 13.2v if batteries are totally disconnected, surface charge is removed, and you wait four hours to test. Even 12.8 would be high for FLA batteries, much less 13.2.
Either I'm missing something or your batteries are still connected to something.
Enjoy,
Perry
__________________
Those who know everything use pens. Intelligent people use pencils.
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11-18-2022, 06:07 PM
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#39
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Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Burlington Twp., New Jersey
Trailer: 2010 Escape 19
Posts: 7,146
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Perry Butler
You have flooded lead acid batteries?
If so, there is no way they should read 13.2v if batteries are totally disconnected, surface charge is removed, and you wait four hours to test. Even 12.8 would be high for FLA batteries, much less 13.2.
Either I'm missing something or your batteries are still connected to something.
Enjoy,
Perry
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Good call Perry. I have a few 12V batteries in the garage. One reads 12.8V and the other that more recently came off the trickle charger is at 12.9V. The one currently on the 2A trickle charger is reading around 13.9V.
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11-18-2022, 06:26 PM
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#40
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2022
Location: Silicon Valley, California
Trailer: 2023 Escape 21C
Posts: 141
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Perry Butler
You have flooded lead acid batteries?
If so, there is no way they should read 13.2v if batteries are totally disconnected, surface charge is removed, and you wait four hours to test. Even 12.8 would be high for FLA batteries, much less 13.2.
Either I'm missing something or your batteries are still connected to something.
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I fully concur. Lead-acid chemistry has a default potential of 2.1V/cell, or 12.6V for a 12V battery. This is when the battery is fully charged, and left in storage with no charge or load current for days or weeks at a time. Right after charging, they can measure as high as 2.3V/cell, or 13.8V.
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