Let's talk about refrigerators

[TTMartin]

Originally Posted by JeffreyG

Short background, I'm planning my E-19 build for an RV that will mostly be boondocked, only occasional electric service. Three season use, but not extreme winter most likely.

I'm planning two 100 Ah lithium batteries with a Victron battery monitor. I will install my own 240 watt rooftop solar panels routed through a MPPT solar charger.

My base plan is the upgraded 6.0 cu. ft. propane/120V fridge. I've owned this exact same fridge before in another RV and for me it was reliable and even a bit bigger than I absolutely needed (which is a plus). Here are my only concerns with the 6.0 cu. ft. fridge:
1) Requires both roof and wall vent panels. In particular if there was a way to avoid the roof hole that would be nice.
2) In my last RV, this fridge had a fan that would click on-off-on-off at a pretty high frequency. It was annoying late at night if awakened. Maybe I could have fixed this by moving whatever temp. sensor was triggering the fan, but I never dug into it.

We have the 6 cu ft option in our 2020 Escape 19. We are happy with the choice. The place for the roof vent is premolded into the shell. I'm not sure if getting the compressor fridge from Escape eliminates the roof vent and the heat has to vent somewhere. Ours does not have and auxiliary cooling fan, and no indication so far that it needs one.

[TTMartin]

Originally Posted by Steve S.

Having only owned a compressor-fridge in my current RV, I'm curious whether the 3-way running on propane causes a similar worry about running out of propane? For such a fridge, how long might one run on propane with only one 20-lb tank?

A couple of months, if you are only running the refrigerator on the propane.

[TTMartin]

Originally Posted by ericw

Given your bent toward boondocking and not liking motors cycling on/off, I would lean toward the 3 way standard fridge unless you really enjoy babysitting the battery level and associated extra panels/generator/etc... to keep it charged up. FWIW.

Originally Posted by JeffreyG

This kind of sums up where I'm leaning. I'm probably just going to get the propane fridge. But this has been a great discussion in the thread so far.

Originally Posted by HABBERDABBER

And location....location. Less solar exposure around here, and more vegetation to block the sun.

I'm not convinced solar is the end all be all for electric needs.

At least for me, I try and choose the shadiest most secluded campsite I can find. Shade and solar don't mix. So, I'm very hesitant to rely too heavily on electric.

I did get one solar panel, and its biggest plus so far to me has been the ability to run the fridge on DC while driving without worrying about running down the battery.

[rubicon327]

Originally Posted by TTMartin

A couple of months, if you are only running the refrigerator on the propane.

That sounds overly optimistic. See posts #27 and 31 above. If you see this in actual practice I would love to know how you are achieving it.

[TTMartin]

Originally Posted by TTMartin

A couple of months, if you are only running the refrigerator on the propane.

Originally Posted by rubicon327

Our 5CF Dometic RM2510 uses only 1080 BTU/H. Based on 420,900 BTU's in a 20# tank (~4.6 gallons) of propane I calculate just over 16 days if run 24/7.

Originally Posted by Upfisk

Real world experience matches your calculations. We use 20# of propane in 14-16 days in temps ranging from 60°F to 100°F. If it is colder than 50°F we are starting to run the furnace and the propane disappears faster. Daily cooking takes 15 minutes on the 2 burner cooktop, we rarely run the HW heater. Since we carry 2 tanks of propane that's 4 weeks of fridge usage, not a limiting factor. We also have the 5 cf fridge which has both enough freezer space for the 2 of us and normal cool temp storage. We like having a cabinet above the fridge for additional storage

Originally Posted by rubicon327

That sounds overly optimistic. See posts #27 and 31 above. If you see this in actual practice I would love to know how you are achieving it.

Post number 27 says with the refrigerator actively cooling 24/7. According to a Texas power company home refrigerators run about 1/3 of the time*. If a RV refrigerator is similar that would mean a month and a half.

Post number 31 included cooking and occasional hot water use.

Of course it isn't based on actual practice because no one just runs just the refrigerator on propane. They also heat water, cook, and maybe even run a furnace. So, while a couple months may have been on the high side for refrigerator only, it's not completely ridiculous.

My guess was based my daughter living in our previous trailer for a few months. The trailer was plugged in so the refrigerator wasn't using propane. However, it was an older trailer with a 24/7 pilot light propane only water heater, and she did some cooking. She went through about one tank a month. I didn't think the refrigerator would use that much more than the water heater's pilot light.

*For example, most people have units that operate (or “run”) for about eight total hours per day. But, if you do things like clean the coils, position the appliance correctly, keep it well-maintained, and set the right temperature, you can reduce the amount of time it runs to less than eight hours per day.

[rubicon327]

Originally Posted by TTMartin

Post number 27 says with the refrigerator actively cooling 24/7. According to a Texas power company home refrigerators run about 1/3 of the time*. If a RV refrigerator is similar that would mean a month and a half.

Originally Posted by TTMartin

I didn't think the refrigerator would use that much more than the water heater's pilot light.

So you got me thinking. Although an absorption fridge doesn't cycle like a home refrigerator it does lessen the gas use when the thermostat is satisfied to just "bypass" or pilot. In the case of my calculation an RM2510 would only use the 1080 BTU/H constantly if set on MAX. This is purely academic as there are many variables. Maybe we can agree that the real number is likely somewhere between yours and mine?

[TTMartin]

Originally Posted by rubicon327

Maybe we can agree that the real number is likely somewhere between yours and mine?

No problem agreeing. My couple of months was a swag. I was also using hyperbole. IMO propane use really isn't a reason to choose a 12 volt compressor fridge over an absorption refrigerator.

IMO without hookups you'll be much more limited by the electrical demands of a 12 volt compressor fridge than ever will be by propane.

Of course that is based on my style of camping, where I prefer a shady campsite and no amount of solar on the roof is going to matter for me.

FWIW, I do have a 100 quart dual zone compressor chest fridge/freezer in my van. However, it runs off a house battery charged by a second alternator. I don't have fixed solar on my van, I have considered adding a fixed solar panel just for the convenience of keeping the house battery topped off when the van sits parked at home. A panel might be enough to leave refrigerator run and leaving some things in it, rather than emptying it or plugging its battery charger in at home.

[MyronL]

There is a company in Kentucky that manufactures and sells truck fridges. Truckfridge.com. Their fridges are meant for long haul trucks.

Their 4.3 cu. in. AC/DC model is very interesting - will fit in the spot currently occupied by my Dometic, which is an older 3-way and has never made me happy. I do have 200w of solar but the panels are portables. My battery is 100w Lithium. Wondering if the Truckfridge 2-way is a practical option.

Like many of us I dream of living in my trailer off the grid. But to do that I need a refrigerator I can rely on, one that's energy efficient but just small enough. I know, it's mostly wishful, pie-in-the-sky thinking but what the hell, right?

[the5reeds]

I have a 3-way fridge in my 19' Escape as well as a 12v compressor fridge in my Class B. both about the same size. While the 3-way has always done fine, my experience with the 12v has been very good. The van has a similar setup with lithium batteries and 200W or solar, so battery life has never been an issue with the fridge. I really like that your parking angle is no longer a factor and maintaining cold inside has been flawless. I think as long as you have solar and lithium, the DC option is superior in my opinion.

[Mike G]

Originally Posted by MyronL

There is a company in Kentucky that manufactures and sells truck fridges. Truckfridge.com. Their fridges are meant for long haul trucks.

Their 4.3 cu. in. AC/DC model is very interesting - will fit in the spot currently occupied by my Dometic, which is an older 3-way and has never made me happy. I do have 200w of solar but the panels are portables. My battery is 100w Lithium. Wondering if the Truckfridge 2-way is a practical option.

Like many of us I dream of living in my trailer off the grid. But to do that I need a refrigerator I can rely on, one that's energy efficient but just small enough. I know, it's mostly wishful, pie-in-the-sky thinking but what the hell, right?

Myron, I can share a data point for you. There was a Snoozy owner on fgrv, MCDenny, who had a 100W panel as his only recharge source (of two 6V batteries) for 5 nights, with lows in the 30s and 40s. He did have good sun every day (in the high desert). Running a Truckfridge and a Propex furnace and lights, he had plenty of recharge from the 100W panel. This was in 2014. Farther north and with some intermittent shade, he was down to 50% after 4 days and went someplace to plug in & recharge.

https://www.fiberglassrv.com/forums/...ozy-63494.html

[MyronL]

Thanks for that Mike. Will be looking into it. Meanwhile currently also interested in the WindyNation 100watt flexible solar panel at Lowes, $112.44 -- just might be flexible enough for the back roof of my 19. It is 42.3 x 20.5 inches.

[JulietF]

We picked up our Escape 19 on Dec 21, 2020 and it has the Norcold 558? DC only fridge that Escape is currently installing. We camped on Vancouver Island for 1.5 months mostly in unserviced campgrounds.

The fridge was amazing and we don't regret getting that option at all. It even froze meat in the "freezer", althought things needed to be shifted a little and the temperature needed to be tweeked slightly until the meat was frozen. The fridge draws air in from the bottom and vents out the top into the trailer. While the fridge is completely closed from the outside in the back, the air was being cooled by the cold from the vent behind. On cold days, the blowing cold air was unpleasant when I was cooking. We had to block the absorption fridge vent holes on the roof and wall and insulate inside the vent to make it more comfortable. This spring we will be fibreglassing in the holes.

I had no way to adequately measure what the fridge drew for power, but I can say the heater drew significantly more power than the fridge. We had three lithium batteries but didnt have the WFCO converter set up properly for lithiums at the time, nor did we get help from dc-dc charging while driving. Solar was little help due to the weather.

We would charge our batteries every 4-5 days with a generator and an ac-dc lithium battery charger. When we were plugged in, we didnt have a fully functioning battery charger so I was able to get an idea of what the fridge drew alone, and it wasn't significant. Our biggest limitation was propane, it lasted for about 12 days running the heater and cookstove......and we kept the heater off during the day.

Moving forward we will install an MPPT solar controller, the lithium change out for the WFCO converter and a quick connect for a suitcase solar panel should the two roof top panels not be enough. Three lithium batteries is probably overkill, but I am glad to have them.

In summary; the condenser fridge is amazing, the vents suck and have to go, three lithium batteries is enough to run for over 5 days in the PNW in the winter............and you will be lucky to get two weeks out of the propane.

We are learning a lot as we go about solar and batteried but where we end up will be the right place for us.

[Eggscape]

Thanks for the update on a nearly new trailer with the DC fridge.

So let me get this straight..Inside air is drawn in below the fridge, passed the open outside wall vent and then can go out the open roof vent or back into the trailer above the fridge?

Or heat from your furnace (which is right beside the fridge in a 19) can be drawn in under the fridge and out the open fridge wall vent or open roof vent.

I think I must be not understanding something.

Also can you hear it cycle on and off?

[JulietF]

Originally Posted by Eggscape

Thanks for the update on a nearly new trailer with the DC fridge.

So let me get this straight..Inside air is drawn in below the fridge, passed the open outside wall vent and then can go out the open roof vent or back into the trailer above the fridge?

Or heat from your furnace (which is right beside the fridge in a 19) can be drawn in under the fridge and out the open fridge wall vent or open roof vent.

I think I must be not understanding something.

Also can you hear it cycle on and off?

Oops, lets try the explanation again.

On the Norcold 558? the fridges are enclosed compketely at the back, no air from the vent space is exchanged. Air is drawn in at the bottom front (interior), moves to the back, up the back and then forward and out the top of the frdge into the interior of the trailer. When you are cooking, it literally is blowing on you. However since the back of the fridge is in the vent area, it is affected by the ambient temperature in the vent, making the exhaust very cool on cold days. Once we blocked the vents and insulated the vent with rigid foam insulation, it was much better.

As for the cycling on and off, sure you could hear it a little, your head is right beside it......but it never kept me awake, it was almost soothing.

J

[JulietF]

It is funny, I keep hearing the guys at Escape saying they are looking for better compressor fridge options then they have now. Yes, granted it doesnt have AC ability, but it is a great fridge, large enough for 2, quiet, energy efficient, should have consistent temperatures throughout the seasons, will work properly at elevation.......and the freezer even works. My husband loves it, his favourite option.

[Eggscape]

Thanks for clearing that up.

So the wall and roof vent is a chamber open to the outside needlessly. I know there is someone on the forum that is not going to like that. Escape is going to have to teach the hole guy the new ways.

I can still see that the lower fridge fan could be sucking some heat in from the furnace beside it and up the back of the fridge where it should be cooling it.

As well am not sure on a hot day that I would like the fridge pumping more heat into the trailer.

Don’t get me wrong...l really like DC compressor fridges.

Glad you got your camping in before the cold hit this week.

[JulietF]

We ordered our trailer without the vents and were gutted when we saw them. Last fall was a crazy time for Escape, lots of changes and lots of confusion. Escape has acknowledged we fell through the cracks and has been working with us. They are supplying the hole cutouts, decals and gelcoat. We are supplying the fibreglass supplies and doing the work. While we arent happy, it is understandable with all the confusion that things go wrong occasionally. I am happy with the outcome and feel that we came out of it with a reasonable compromise.

As for the trailer, we love it. We just retired and plan on using a lot.

[JulietF]

Originally Posted by Eggscape

I can still see that the lower fridge fan could be sucking some heat in from the furnace beside it and up the back of the fridge where it should be cooling it.

As well am not sure on a hot day that I would like the fridge pumping more heat into the trailer.

When we do the repairs, we are going to have to open things up a bit (my husband is a carpenter), do you think it is worthwhile to install some of that foil insulation on the walls around the heater.

We have also said that we are going to install a plumbing vent on top of the trailer to try and dump some of the hot air in the summer. Not sure if we should go bigger or perhaps add another small vent on the side to help with air flow. Thoughts.

Without a complete rebuild, any thoughts on areas that we might claim back. We thought we might be able to build a slide in spot for a suitcase solar panel behind the fridge coming from the bed area.

What about the area where the propane sensor is, I know you opened that up.

J

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by JulietF

It is funny, I keep hearing the guys at Escape saying they are looking for better compressor fridge options then they have now. Yes, granted it doesnt have AC ability, but it is a great fridge, large enough for 2, quiet, energy efficient, should have consistent temperatures throughout the seasons, will work properly at elevation.......and the freezer even works.

I don't see any significant advantage to an AC mode for a compressor-type refrigerator in a travel trailer; if the trailer is on shore power the converter/charger will easily provide the few amps that the refrigerator needs. The AC mode is for applications where there is no AC to DC converter already. It does seem like the an excellent model has already been found.

[Eggscape]

Wow...big job...good for you!

I have done a few fiberglass jobs and that is not one I would attempt. I thought you were just going to fiberglass the holes behind the vents and leave the vents in place. This would accomplish the same water/bug proof results and make it easier for the next person to change over to gas if they wanted to. Much easier to do and you can see your final outside results right now. This would be a win, win, win and win situation.

Personally I would be looking into blocking and insulating the lower and upper vents that the fridge uses now and suck air in from the outside wall vent and out the roof. Cooling the DC fridge similar to a gas model. Your fridge is probably only designed this way so it works in a boat where I am sure vents in the side of hull is frowned upon.

I don’t think you can have to much insolation around a fridge as long as the instructions don’t say otherwise.