Let's talk about refrigerators

[JeffreyG]

Short background, I'm planning my E-19 build for an RV that will mostly be boondocked, only occasional electric service. Three season use, but not extreme winter most likely.

I'm planning two 100 Ah lithium batteries with a Victron battery monitor. I will install my own 240 watt rooftop solar panels routed through a MPPT solar charger.

My base plan is the upgraded 6.0 cu. ft. propane/120V fridge. I've owned this exact same fridge before in another RV and for me it was reliable and even a bit bigger than I absolutely needed (which is a plus). Here are my only concerns with the 6.0 cu. ft. fridge:
1) Requires both roof and wall vent panels. In particular if there was a way to avoid the roof hole that would be nice.
2) In my last RV, this fridge had a fan that would click on-off-on-off at a pretty high frequency. It was annoying late at night if awakened. Maybe I could have fixed this by moving whatever temp. sensor was triggering the fan, but I never dug into it.

Another option on the Escape is 12V DC.....either their standard option or I could provide a front venting unit. These might allow deletion of the roof vent and they might be quieter. But there are downsides:
1) Big draw on the batteries. Maybe my 240watt solar could keep up in sun, but I'm probably into portable panels if I camp in the shade.
2) Much smaller fridge for more money.

My knee jerk reaction to the build sheet was to opt for a nice, big propane fridge. That might still be the smart choice but I'd love to hear any thoughts plus or minus for other options.

[davidmurphy02]

We had a 6 cubic foot Norcold propane/AC fridge in our previous trailer and it worked flawlessly for 15 years. The only PITA was that the cooling fins in the fridge iced up and required shutting it down and defrosting it every couple of weeks. The Dometic fridge in our 5.0 is essentially the same fridge, but it cycles and keeps ice off the fridge fins so we have never needed to defrost it. I know there were some issues with Dometic fridges several years ago, but so far the current model seems terrific.

I have been intrigued by the compressor fridges that now seem more feasible with lithium batteries. But after an extended winter boondocking trip where the low sun angle didn't quite work for us in really cold weather, I wouldn't want to have to worry about the fridge if the batteries got really low....we can always turn down the furnace thermostat and add a blanket if the solar can't quite keep up. The vents and holes in the shell don't concern me - the exterior side compartment on the back of the fridge is finished out much better on our Escape than our previous rig and looks like it will never be a problem.

[tdf-texas]

Originally Posted by JeffreyG

Short background, I'm planning my E-19 build for an RV that will mostly be boondocked, only occasional electric service. Three season use, but not extreme winter most likely.

I'm planning two 100 Ah lithium batteries with a Victron battery monitor. I will install my own 240 watt rooftop solar panels routed through a MPPT solar charger.

My base plan is the upgraded 6.0 cu. ft. propane/120V fridge. I've owned this exact same fridge before in another RV and for me it was reliable and even a bit bigger than I absolutely needed (which is a plus). Here are my only concerns with the 6.0 cu. ft. fridge:
1) Requires both roof and wall vent panels. In particular if there was a way to avoid the roof hole that would be nice.
2) In my last RV, this fridge had a fan that would click on-off-on-off at a pretty high frequency. It was annoying late at night if awakened. Maybe I could have fixed this by moving whatever temp. sensor was triggering the fan, but I never dug into it.

Another option on the Escape is 12V DC.....either their standard option or I could provide a front venting unit. These might allow deletion of the roof vent and they might be quieter. But there are downsides:
1) Big draw on the batteries. Maybe my 240watt solar could keep up in sun, but I'm probably into portable panels if I camp in the shade.
2) Much smaller fridge for more money.

My knee jerk reaction to the build sheet was to opt for a nice, big propane fridge. That might still be the smart choice but I'd love to hear any thoughts plus or minus for other options.

The roof vent for the refrigerator shouldn't be a problem. The vent cavity on the Escape has a drain on the bottom and somewhat isolated from the rest of the trailer.

I live in an area that has high humidity / rain levels and was concerned about the exposed wood in the refrigerator cavity so I completely insulated and sealed it with reflectix. It's not hard to do and takes away any concerns about leakage. A side benefit is the fridge works much better.

[Jwinfrey]

We currently have a Truck camper with a Norcold DE0061 compressor fridge. It’s the next model up from Escape’s Norcold offering. Nice fridge but uses 2x the power listed on their website, 6.5 amps vs. 3.2. (But that’s another story....). We have 340 watts of Solar and 2-105 amp-hr. AGM batteries. We never have a problem. One of the reasons we don’t have a problem is the type of camping we do. With a truck camper we are always on the move and not buried in the shade for long periods of time. Or when we are, it’s very easy to just go for a drive and get out into the sun. We have a 5.0 scheduled for a March 2021 delivery. While I feel the compressor fridges are better in many ways, we opted for the standard 3way fridge. We won’t have the option to move as easy if buried in the shade for an extended time. I think the compressor fridge would’ve worked, 1) without issue 50-60% of the time, or 2) had me worried and watching the battery monitor 20-30% of the time, or 3) possibly running down and damaging my batteries 10-20% of the time and maybe left without any power. For me, a generator is not an option. We have a Portable panel but they are a hassle to move around and chase the sun when the trees are tall and the sun is low in the winter. We just leave it at home now. Like everything, it’s all about camping style. For us, the math didn’t work.

[HABBERDABBER]

Every time you get something, you give up something.....grasshopper.

Propane refrigs come with issues, but they work. A compressor style may be advantegeous in some applications but they need those electrons. 3-way refrig offers more options for powering.

[Eggscape]

The outside vents are well done and are of no concern to me. We have the standard fridge in our 2018 19 and it holds enough food for the both of us especially since we like to be out and about where we can pick up more stuff if needed. I would only consider the large fridge if we did not leave camp for over a week.

It has a fan somewhere in the back that comes on in extreme heat only and is hard to hear. I would think that the excellent venting of the smaller fridge makes it a rare occurrence that this fan comes on.

[Centex]

I honestly can't fathom the thinking behind the recently evidenced (by some) 'refrigerator vent-elimination mania'

• The venting of airflow around condenser coils can do nothing but help refrigeration efficiency, no matter what the reefer type / energy source (the laws of thermodynamics prevail)
• Exterior venting is more desirable than venting to interior spaces when one camps off-grid (without air conditioning) in warm/hot weather (why would one want to add any heat to the trailer living-space in that situation?); not to mention the inevitable sacrifice of cabinet-space required to accommodate adequate interior venting.
• It's rare that water leakage is an issue with refrigerator vents; when it occurs it's inevitably due to a poor installation, and when that (rarely) happens it's easily cured by retro-fitting proper sealant
• Winter cold-air / summer hot-air infiltration isn't a factor because the vent-plenum is sealed (isolated) from the interior of the trailer (it should have been when the trailer was built, but can be retro-mitigated easily if not)
• If wasps/ mud-daubers/ etc are a concern where one camps or stores the trailer there are many easily affixed screens to eliminate that nuisance
• There simply isn't evidence of pervasive issues associated with refrigerator venting which has been the norm in RV travel for decades and millions of miles; it's a well-proven beneficial aspect of RV design

As to energy source, if I knew my use would be heavily biased to off-grid camping I'd certainly go with a reefer capable of LP operation. Though some report problems, there are literally thousands of LP-reefer users that have enjoyed years (decades in my case) of trouble-free operation. It's the easiest silent energy source to 'carry extra' and the only which is totally independent of tree-shade (a blissful thing when you can find it in hot-season boondocking) or weather-overcast.

IME / IMO. YMMV.

[Effie]

The 6cu propane fridge. In my 19 does the job. Since you used one before you already know It’s not like a compressor fridge, but on the other hand power consumption is very low. I don’t see the point of getting an expensive Lithium setup and still having to run a generator every few days just because of a the fridge. I camped few times in situations where the solar charging was minimal and I needed to watch my power consumption, but I never had to run my Honda generator.

[John in Santa Cruz]

we have the older big fridge/freezer in our 21, and for sure the roof vent makes it far more efficient. never had any issues with rain getting in from the rooftop vent, the hood over it is quite effective.

[Rossue]

The side vents on the Gen2 trailers are bigger than the Gen1 and that is probably because ETI learned the vents weren't big enough which likely affected performance. As I recall the specs for Dometic installation of the RMD8555 shows a larger side vent. When I needed a new side vent cover recently, it turned out not to be a Dometic, but a Norcold vent.

Have researched fridges, yet for Gen1 trailers there isn't many options and the RMD8555 is discontinued. There is a Norcold model that will fit or the NovaKool compressor fridge. Going with a 6.0 cu.ft. compressor seems like a gamble for a boondocker unless one wants to invest substantially in batteries and solar.

[NEWYORKHILLBILLY]

on my 19 I got the 3 way 6.0 cu. ft. fridge. I went back and forth on my build.. Now that we have larger size I love it.There is so much more freezer room. I consider a roof vent a plus . This runs so much cooler with the roof vent. My casita fridge the whole side trailer would get warm from the fridge. . It seems very efficient on propane . I never run it on 12 volt . I don't know much about the 12 volt compression fridges . I do see some of the owners opting for 3 Batteries . I do a lot of boon docking.I don't want anything that draws my batteries down. My whole system is set up to run my cpap machine and furnace. Other uses of the battery can be controlled But he fridge needs to run 24 hours a day(maybe on and off in that time frame).I guess it just depends camping style . I know if I can get a little sun one day a week I can camp for months with out shore power. I did carry a Honda generator last year but it just took a ride around the country . I don't think i be carrying it next year. I just have the 2 6 volts

[EdColorado]

Actually, the roof and side vent can serve a very useful purpose depending on your trailer model. People have been doing this for years.

If you want to mount an antenna on the roof for say a cell phone, simply remove the rooftop vent (4 screws) , drop the antenna wire down the opening between the back of the fridge and the exterior shell of the trailer. Remove the side vent then drill a hole through the sidewall of the fridge compartment just large enough for the fitting on the end of the antenna wire and pass it through the hole.

Now you're inside with out drilling any holes through the roof.

[Eggscape]

Yes it makes for a good access point. However it is not that simple. The holes the screws are in have been filled with sealer and without removing the top you can’t slip the wire in due to the screen across the top.

[EdColorado]

Originally Posted by Eggscape

Yes it makes for a good access point. However it is not that simple. The holes the screws are in have been filled with sealer and without removing the top you can’t slip the wire in due to the screen across the top.

And why Escape does that is beyond me.

Must have taken me the better part of an hour digging out that unnecessary sealant before I could reach the screws with a #2 Phillip head screwdriver.

A found that a drill bit turned forward and in reverse reverse acted as an auger to get out most of the sealant.

[Rossue]

Originally Posted by EdColorado

And why Escape does that is beyond me. :confused.

To keep the screws from being so corroded as to not being able to remove? That was my thought when I first pulled the Proflex plugs that weren't hard to do.

[gbaglo]

Originally Posted by EdColorado

And why Escape does that is beyond me.

For a reason?

[EdColorado]

Originally Posted by gbaglo

For a reason?

I’ve done this before and it’s basically a 30 minute job.

When I saw these deep recesses filled with caulking I figured some fool had a caulking gun and just thought he would be cute.

Apparently it’s just the Escape way.

[gbaglo]

Originally Posted by EdColorado

I’ve done this before and it’s basically a 30 minute job.

When I saw these deep recesses filled with caulking I figured some fool had a caulking gun and just thought he would be cute.

Apparently it’s just the Escape way.

To caulk where there are screws through the shell you mean?
Have you asked ETI why they would waste caulk, as you claim?

[EdColorado]

Originally Posted by gbaglo

To caulk where there are screws through the shell you mean?


Have you asked ETI why they would waste caulk, as you claim?

The screws don’t penetrate the shell. The use of caulking doesn’t hurt anything it just makes removal difficult for replacement or maintenance/cleaning of the flue or baffles.

And I didn’t ask.

I simply completed the job I set out to do.
All is well.

Ed

[ericw]

I have had both a 12v compressor fridge in a previous trailer and for my escape I stuck with the 3 way even though I inquired about a 12V fridge (and maybe pushed for it a bit) before it was offered as an option.



I had similar concerns to yours, but I have to say we are happy with our decision. The venting has been trouble free. The fridge just works all the time.


I liked the more consistent temperature of the compressor fridge, but the compressor fridges are distinctly much noisier as they cycle on and off and that was annoying during the night.


Although I am an electrical engineer geek enjoys counting electrons, it is nice to not constantly worry about battery levels and just have a more robust system that is basically set it up and it just works all the time.


Given your bent toward boondocking and not liking motors cycling on/off, I would lean toward the 3 way standard fridge unless you really enjoy babysitting the battery level and associated extra panels/generator/etc... to keep it charged up. FWIW.