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Old 05-26-2020, 04:13 PM   #101
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I can't take it anymore .. I switching to Lithium !!!


earlier in the thread I mentioned I just stick with the duel 6 volts on my build. well i been doing a lot of research on the advantages of the lithium. I had the dual 6 volts removed off my build. I going to go lithium. The problem I didn't feel one battle born was enough for me and I am to cheap to buy a pair of them . I did some research and there many people building these from lifepo4 cells. So after looking more into it I decided to try it. If all goes as planned I will end up with a 280 AH battery that weighs under 50lb and will be 8"Hx7"wx12"L. this battery will have a 1c discharge rate.. I still don't plan on inverter so this is a little overkill for me. This battery will be relocated into the drivers side front bench on my new 19' . my goal is to build this battery for under $600. I ordered 4 New grade A EVE lifepo4 cells from china on alibaba for $440 with sea shipment (60days to arrive) I ordered a battery management system from china on aliexpress for $77 total $517. that leaves me another $83 for a nice battery box and cables.Anyone interested in this I got most the info from a DIY fourm
https://diysolarforum.com/


I talked to several people that had built these for there rv with very good results. Of course you have to be a Do It yourself type of guy.

I also got my victron supplies . I took Jon's advise and up sized the controller
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Old 05-26-2020, 04:19 PM   #102
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I can't take it anymore, it is DUAL not DUEL, plural vs Hamilton vs Burr....
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Old 05-26-2020, 07:20 PM   #103
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One problem with Lithium that I haven't found a good solution to. If i happen to be towing in below zero weather I would not have any power to the breakaway switch . In most cases I would not be doing this, but if i happen to head south in January this could be a problem.
Most lithium battery management system's will shut off load at 0 degrees and charging at 32 . I see battleborn pushes that to -4 degrees for load and 24 degrees for charging so i might be able to push it a little. maybe I overthinking this. it would not be often where i would encounter these temp.
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Old 05-26-2020, 10:19 PM   #104
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Originally Posted by NEWYORKHILLBILLY View Post
One problem with Lithium that I haven't found a good solution to. If i happen to be towing in below zero weather I would not have any power to the breakaway switch . In most cases I would not be doing this, but if i happen to head south in January this could be a problem.
Most lithium battery management system's will shut off load at 0 degrees and charging at 32 . I see battleborn pushes that to -4 degrees for load and 24 degrees for charging so i might be able to push it a little. maybe I overthinking this. it would not be often where i would encounter these temp.
Probably unlikely that you will be towing in weather that cold. If you are you might consider running your propane heater while traveling. This was a recommendation by Reace at one time for cold weather travelers that didn’t want a frozen trailer when arriving at their destination. We have done it successfully for short distances with the original Atwood 8012-II furnace but I don’t know how the newer Atwood AFSAD12 / Dometic DFSAD12 would perform.

More importantly you probably want to consider a small electric heater to keep the lithium batteries warm when you aren’t traveling. This assumes you don’t pull the battery bank and you are plugged in at home.
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Old 05-27-2020, 06:31 AM   #105
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We tow a lot in below freezing temps and leave the heat on to a low degree.
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Old 05-27-2020, 08:04 AM   #106
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Originally Posted by rubicon327 View Post
Probably unlikely that you will be towing in weather that cold. If you are you might consider running your propane heater while traveling. This was a recommendation by Reace at one time for cold weather travelers that didn’t want a frozen trailer when arriving at their destination. We have done it successfully for short distances with the original Atwood 8012-II furnace but I don’t know how the newer Atwood AFSAD12 / Dometic DFSAD12 would perform.

More importantly you probably want to consider a small electric heater to keep the lithium batteries warm when you aren’t traveling. This assumes you don’t pull the battery bank and you are plugged in at home.
Reace told us the same thing when we picked up our trailer in January. We kept the AFSAD12 running the whole trip back from Sumas to Texas without issues.
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Old 05-27-2020, 08:29 AM   #107
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Probably unlikely that you will be towing in weather that cold. If you are you might consider running your propane heater while traveling. This was a recommendation by Reace at one time for cold weather travelers that didn’t want a frozen trailer when arriving at their destination. We have done it successfully for short distances with the original Atwood 8012-II furnace but I don’t know how the newer Atwood AFSAD12 / Dometic DFSAD12 would perform.

More importantly you probably want to consider a small electric heater to keep the lithium batteries warm when you aren’t traveling. This assumes you don’t pull the battery bank and you are plugged in at home.

wow such a simple solution. I don't know why i dint think about that that would work great as its very unlikely i be towing in those temp anyways and if i was i be heading south.

as for electric heater I wll probably pull the battery for the winter and store inside at 50% charge to prolong life. I could leave it in trailer over the winter because the battery management system would stop charging current at 32 degrees and stop discharge at 0 degrees.
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Old 05-27-2020, 05:35 PM   #108
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I ordered 4 New grade A EVE lifepo4 cells from china on alibaba for $440 with sea shipment (60days to arrive) I ordered a battery management system from china on aliexpress for $77 total $517. that leaves me another $83 for a nice battery box and cables.
Does the $77 BMS include high-voltage and low-voltage disconnect?
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Old 05-27-2020, 06:49 PM   #109
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Does the $77 BMS include high-voltage and low-voltage disconnect?
yes it includes that. Also has a temp prob to program for low temp charging disconnect . Its a Bluetooth model. this is a JDB-spo45020 chip set. Daly has new BMS coming out with higher amp ratings, But this one seems to have a proven history


This is the same chip set on amazon. If i was doing it again i would have spent extra and bought it from this seller. he has a lifetime warranty. he also has great customer service from what i understand.He also is willing to help you set the programming up. I had already ordered from china when i found out about overkill solar

https://www.amazon.com/LifePo4-Batte...088JYDKMR?th=1




here is some more info on it https://diysolarforum.com/threads/fi...otection.2884/




This isi where i purchased mine
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000...39f44c4d4pSk4M





Unfortunately all this stuff has to come from china one way or the other. There is no U.S. maker of Lifepo4 battery cells
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Old 05-27-2020, 09:55 PM   #110
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yes it includes that. Also has a temp prob to program for low temp charging disconnect...
Excellent It looks very similar to the hardware used by BattleBorn.
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Old 05-27-2020, 10:22 PM   #111
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Excellent It looks very similar to the hardware used by BattleBorn.
yes works in same way as Battle born but with Bluetooth.I believe battle born decided not to have bluetooth as they wanted a simple drop in replacement. The amazon seller overkill solar has done many test on these. He will also customize wire size and length. I mentioned to him i was concerned about heat build up if i mounted this in box with no air movement.without me asking he wrapped one up and bubble wrap and tested it drawing my max load at 60amp until battery was dead. it passed the heat test no problem.If you do run it at the 120amp draw it will need some air space around to cool. In my case with no inverter my amp draw will be low. Once the Bms is set up you really don't even need the Bluetooth. As a back up the victron mppt will be programed to cut of charging at 0 degress. I may also put in a victron low volatge disconnect. this way i have two safety systems. I really just learning about this stuff and think it will be fun to build.
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Old 06-20-2020, 02:42 PM   #112
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Is there a shop you would recommend to have the LiFePO4 battery installation done for you?

I've been considering this for a bit, but typically don't like doing a lot of electrical work other than replacing existing electrical sockets or installing a ceiling fan. The mods it looks like were done to install the LiFEPO4's seem extensive, or am I just missing something reading your installation blog (a common problem of mine!)?

We have one factory installed solar panel (160W or 170W I think), so does it make sense to add another panel at the same time as switching to LiFePO4 or can that always be done later?

Nice post and thanks for the information!
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Old 06-20-2020, 03:05 PM   #113
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the simplest version would be to replace your pair of golf cart batts with a pair of battleborn lifepo4's, and rewire them in parallel instead of series (this would require one more jumper wire between the batteries). example of series vs parallel...

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Old 06-20-2020, 03:14 PM   #114
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We have one factory installed solar panel (160W or 170W I think), so does it make sense to add another panel at the same time as switching to LiFePO4 or can that always be done later?
Having more battery capacity than solar capacity is not an issue in my opinion. Your batteries will get more charge plugged in at home or from your vehicles alternator driving to the campgrounds than they will get from solar panels on your roof. You can always add another solar panel later.
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Old 06-20-2020, 03:32 PM   #115
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I wouldn't be concerned about only having one panel & 2 100 amp hour lithium batteries. For most users, one lithium battery is plenty. Where two become necessary is if you have a microwave that draws over 100 amps, or use lots (and I mean LOTS) of power for other things.

I have 2 Battleborn batteries because my microwave can draw as much as 140 amps. The most I've ever been down from full on the batteries was -72 amp hours (well within the capacity of one battery), and that was after 3 cloudy days using a coffee maker, toaster & microwave during that time. I more often use 30 - 40 amp hours per day, with 20 - 30 coming out of the batteries. As long as there is sun, I will put back 40 amp hours by late morning.

With one panel, it will take longer to refill the battery, but you do have all afternoon. Worst case, if you find you are constantly undercharging the battery, that would be the time to add a panel. My suggestion would be to add a 100 watt or so portable so you can still charge the batteries when parked in the shade.

If you are going to change to two Battleborn batteries, it may be worth the extra $100.00 each to get their GC2 sized batteries since they will fit in the Escape dual 6V battery box.

As to where to have it done, I'd look for solar suppliers rather than RV dealers. AM Solar in Springfield, OR has a good reputation...
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Old 06-20-2020, 08:51 PM   #116
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To repeat what has been said above:
There are two approaches to your question.
1. Money is no object. Buy 2 160W roof panels, 2 100W portable suitcase panels, 2 Battleborn batteries, an MPPT controller. And watch the rest of us turn green with envy.

2. Money is an object. Now you have to evaluate your camping style and power needs.

Are you using your inverter to power microwave, coffee pot, toaster, hair dryer, etc? If so, then as Jon pointed out, you will have to get a pair of lithium batteries as one battery is not designed to provide the short-term high amperage that is required.

Only using your inverter to charge laptops and cell phones? A single lithium will do.

Are you camping only in the summer or dry, southern, sunny locations (winter in Mexico)? Then you probably can do fine with the single 150W on the roof.

Do you camp frequently where there is 110 power and stay plugged in? In that case save your money and go for AGM batteries.

But it gets more complicated if you said no to the above. If you camp in the early spring or fall, or in cloudy cool & shady locations (fall hunting in Montana) you will have to upgrade. Either a second lithium to extend your stay away from power, and possibly a portable to recharge during those extra days away from civilization.

The problem with a single panel on the roof is that it won't provide enough recharge power while in the shade or when the sun angle is low. The second battery might carry you for a couple of extra days. But throw in many hours of using the furnace (or more specifically the blower motor) and your daily drain on the battery goes up. The only way to recharge in those conditions is with a portable panel you can move into the sun and keep pointed directly at the sun when possible. A portable ( or two) gives you the power to recharge your battery(s) under marginal circumstances.

So, the bottom line is you have to evaluate your camping style before spending those hard earned $$$.

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Old 06-20-2020, 10:12 PM   #117
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1. Money is no object. Buy 2 160W roof panels, 2 100W portable suitcase panels, 2 Battleborn batteries, an MPPT controller. And watch the rest of us turn green with envy.
Don't turn green just because that comes a bit short for what I have. My order to ETI and continuing upgrades just so happened timing-wise when it no longer made sense to continue holding onto some property. I "reinvested" a good portion into my new 5.0 and further upgrades.

Anyone need a very slightly used solar controller, inverter, power center/converter and eventually a transfer switch, and an ems? They have all been or will be upgraded.
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Old 06-21-2020, 02:20 AM   #118
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Originally Posted by NEWYORKHILLBILLY View Post
I can't take it anymore .. I switching to Lithium !!!


earlier in the thread I mentioned I just stick with the duel 6 volts on my build. well i been doing a lot of research on the advantages of the lithium. I had the dual 6 volts removed off my build. I going to go lithium. The problem I didn't feel one battle born was enough for me and I am to cheap to buy a pair of them . I did some research and there many people building these from lifepo4 cells. So after looking more into it I decided to try it. If all goes as planned I will end up with a 280 AH battery that weighs under 50lb and will be 8"Hx7"wx12"L. this battery will have a 1c discharge rate.. I still don't plan on inverter so this is a little overkill for me. This battery will be relocated into the drivers side front bench on my new 19' . my goal is to build this battery for under $600. I ordered 4 New grade A EVE lifepo4 cells from china on alibaba for $440 with sea shipment (60days to arrive) I ordered a battery management system from china on aliexpress for $77 total $517. that leaves me another $83 for a nice battery box and cables.Anyone interested in this I got most the info from a DIY fourm
https://diysolarforum.com/


I talked to several people that had built these for there rv with very good results. Of course you have to be a Do It yourself type of guy.

I also got my victron supplies . I took Jon's advise and up sized the controller
This is something I'm probably doing next year, already running the same Victron components you have (with dual 6 volt) and 320w solar so it will be easier on the budget. I'm sure you're going to update us on the install once you get it going .
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Old 07-20-2020, 10:00 AM   #119
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We are in the planning phase for most likely a 19. (Maybe a 17a but probably not)
(I've been killing myself with overtime For last 4 years so we can afford this)
One of my concerns has been the flat, permanent mounted panel option for solar.
In glad to see others have noticed and also have had performance issue.
We won't be full timing and are currently in a tent trailer with a cheap Coleman 90w portable panel/control and group 27 flooded battery.
I was wondering what the best options to select from the get go are on a new trailer.
I saw there were solar prep options but it doesn't really state what those preparations are.
And are they worth it?
I was hoping to do some higher quality portable solar panels so we could park in the shade and put the panels in the sun.
I don't want to pay extra for some options only to find out we need to replace them down the road, or that they aren't of the required quality.
Edit:
We plan to have the trailer a couple of decades, so would like to have capacity for changes in our usage habits as time goes on.
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Old 07-20-2020, 10:10 AM   #120
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Solar ready was having the cables run from the area of the battery/s up through the roof, at least in 2014.
We manage just fine with the flat mounted panel. I do carry a set of portables but other then playing around, have never needed them. Of course your power use is the deciding factor. Many get multiple roof mount panels. I also had ETI run cables from the area of the batteries to where I wanted to mount the monitor, it was extra $ at the time and I had to send them the cables. No idea if they would still do such.


I believe all panels degrade over time, replacing them may depends on if you keep the trailer long enough and if the amount of degradation bothers you.
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