Lithium Batteries?? VS dual 6 volts

[DT6]

We started with a Coleman popup about 30+ years ago, and it was nice when we were younger, but now a trailer or an RV is just easier and more comfortable!

We bought our 19 new in late 2018, and picked it up just over a year ago. We also looked at a 17 and opted for the 19 because of the extra room at the table and also that the 19 has a permanent bed.

On the plus side for the 17 is that it is only one axle so if you plan to boondock out in a lot of places where the roads are rough, the 17 will perform better. We took our 19 on what most would likely say were decent dirt roads and there are times I wish I either had the lift kit installed or had a 17.

There are a few things to consider regarding power. First Escape is looking into offering LiFePO4 batteries, which I would press them for if you can. They are in every way (except price) head and shoulders above any other kind of battery, and well worth the expense if you are going to use your camper a lot. They charge faster, you can run them down to zero (although many will say 10 percent). So if they don't offer it yet, you might consider telling them to leave the battery off and bring one or send them a LiFePO4 battery to install.

Second is the solar panel(s). We have the stock solar panel (180W I believe) and it has worked very well, but we have not parked in too many really shady areas. It does not tilt though. So far we have not had an issue where we could not run the furnace and refrigerator all day/night and our CPAP machines for sleeping (speaking of which if you use a CPAP have Escape drill some access holes into the cabinets above the bed for you - they are perfect for CPAPs. Escape will install up to two panels on a 19.

Your other option is to have Escape leave the panels off and take it to some place like AM Solar in Eugene Oregon (I think I have that right). I have not been to this place, but I did speak to them about a year ago. They really seemed like they knew what they were talking about and have really good reviews. It will cost you more, but they can install a better solar system because it is there business to customize something like that for you vs. Escape who is trying to keep their production costs down by offering a good "one size fits all" which may or may not be the best for you personally. Also, check with AM Solar about the gauge wire Escape uses. As I recall they were hoping for a bigger gauge wire than what Escape actually uses. Again - Escape makes a quality trailer, but you can almost always pick a better (if more expensive) option, like solar panels in this instance, on your own.

To their credit, AM Solar said I should use what we ordered first to see if it is adequate, and so far it has been just fine (we also opted for the dual 6V 225A batteries), but I have no doubt that for about double the cost for the solar panel charging system, AM Solar would provide a much better solution.

Other things to consider. We opted for just about every option, but left off some stuff like bottom insulation that can be installed later. We also went with some less expensive windows, but make sure they open especially for the kitchen/bathroom.

Options we like the best:

Extra Insulation - this is a really smart thing to get and you can only do it when ordering a new one.
Large Fridge: We opted for this instead of a microwave and glad we did. We really love the large freezer and extra fridge space.
Large battery capacity.
Surge Suppressor and whole trailer inverter option with extra outlets up by the cabinets to power our CPAP machines at night.
Outside USB/DC power.
Outside shower (never even tried the one on the inside), although I wish it were on the side of the trailer opposite the door. I have to use a hose extension to really get away from the trailer door area so we don't track water/mud everywhere.

Finally - keep a solid file of all the paperwork. One thing I don't like about Escape (be careful criticizing Escape on this forum, some treat them like Gods who should not be questioned) is the way they warranty the trailer. If something goes wrong with the trailer itself, like it cracks somewhere, they will have it fixed. If your Fridge or Furnace goes bad you need to contact the Fridge or Furnace manufacturer yourself and get them to warranty repair their product. Escape will verify your purchase, but you have to work with the specific manufacturer of your product. It would be like buying a Ford and when the air conditioner goes out under warranty the Ford dealer makes you call AC Delco to have them cover the new air conditioner. Not exactly how I would expect a warranty to work. So you are covered, you just have to do a lot of it yourself. Personally if I have an issue, I want to take it to the nearest decent RV repair facility, had them the keys and let them call Escape and take care of it, but that is not how it works.

Option we wished we got - electric hitch vs. the crank. The crank is okay but slow, so electric might be faster. and outside option to tap into

[fudge_brownie]

Originally Posted by Wunfiddy

I was hoping to do some higher quality portable solar panels so we could park in the shade and put the panels in the sun.

The way I would interpret this is you want portable panels. Not sure of any other method of parking in the shade and getting sun. Lots of options. In my reading the forum I would state:

1. The majority of Escape solar is roof mounted only
2. Some peeps add an additional portable panel 10%
3. A very few use only portable

I am in category 3. The ideal solution would be thin film panels. However, I have not seen a good solution for mounting and placing, and still remain portable. Until a mounting method (short of laying it on the picnic table) is devised it does not appear attractive. Metal framed panels can be portable but they typically are limited to a suitcase arrangement with a total of 120 watts. Renergy makes a 200 watt panel but at 36 lbs and 36x26 it is barely portable. None of the described solutions take advantage of a 24 volt system.

So as everything in life, there are tradeoffs.

[DT6]

Forgot to mention that another solar supplier like AM Solar would be able to provide you with tilting roof-mounted solar panels which helps tremendously, especially when total sunlight is not available. I personally don't want to have to carry and setup something separate, but I understand that is a personal preference and may work best for you. Also recommend you ask Escape to install the necessary adapters to allow you to bring your own panel and just be able to plug it in. Good luck!

[NEWYORKHILLBILLY]

I chose to add the second rooftop panel. My hope is with both panels it will make up for some shade or cloudy days. I do have a portable but rather not have to use it.

[StillCampin]

Others have made the stationary rooftop panels installed by ETI into tiltable in multiple directions. I have all the parts and will be doing the mod this fall.

Tools:
- Ladder
- Saber saw or reciprocating saw to cut the current supports in two
- Drill motor & bit

Parts per panel:
- Hinges (4)
- Leg extensions approx 16" long (2)
- Nuts, bolts, washers

Process:
- Using hinge as a pattern, mark the bolt hole locations
- Drill bolt holes & loosely mount the hinge
- Mark the hinge fold point for cutting
- Remove the hinge
- Cut the support at the hinge fold point
- Install hinge to make the leg "whole" again.
- Repeat for other legs; ensure the cut point on each is at the same height
- Drill bolt holes along the length of the 2 leg extensions; probably start about an inch from each end and do 2-3 about an inch or so apart.

To use:
- Determine what is to be the high side/end
- Remove the upper hinge bolts from the high side
- If the low side does not move as the hinge allows, remove all but 1 bolt from the upper or lower part of the hinge so the panel can rotate
- Install the leg extensions on the high side using the mounting holes that gets you the angle you want
- Tighten nuts so the panel doesn't make noise from wind vibration

Note: I'm going to try using C-channel track for the leg extensions with a sliding bolt for adjusting the angle. I'll use plastic knobs in place of nuts for some of the bolts that get loosened/removed.

[sumac.rhus]

Originally Posted by Brian B-P

Well, two out of four current models... the 21' and 5.0TA have them inside; the 17' and 19' have them outside.

If converting to lithium, how troublesome would it be to move the battery location to inside? (I've a 17B)

[John in Santa Cruz]

Originally Posted by sumac.rhus

If converting to lithium, how troublesome would it be to move the battery location to inside? (I've a 17B)

is there space under a bench near the DC power converter?

thats where the batt is on my E21, dual GC-2 battery box is about 4 feet from the power center, both are under the U dinette bench, along with the furnace. on the E21, this is in the back of the trailer.

[rubicon327]

Originally Posted by sumac.rhus

If converting to lithium, how troublesome would it be to move the battery location to inside? (I've a 17B)

In the 17 you probably have room in the rear passenger side dinette bench area. Cut the wires ends off outside and pull them inside. Wire across the rear (should be a removable wood panel) to the power center on the drivers side. I did this on a 19 as part of my mini-split A/C install but it was at the front. Same principle though.

[cpaharley2008]

Originally Posted by DT6

Finally - keep a solid file of all the paperwork. One thing I don't like about Escape (be careful criticizing Escape on this forum, some treat them like Gods who should not be questioned) is the way they warranty the trailer. If something goes wrong with the trailer itself, like it cracks somewhere, they will have it fixed. If your Fridge or Furnace goes bad you need to contact the Fridge or Furnace manufacturer yourself and get them to warranty repair their product. Escape will verify your purchase, but you have to work with the specific manufacturer of your product. It would be like buying a Ford and when the air conditioner goes out under warranty the Ford dealer makes you call AC Delco to have them cover the new air conditioner. Not exactly how I would expect a warranty to work. So you are covered, you just have to do a lot of it yourself. Personally if I have an issue, I want to take it to the nearest decent RV repair facility, had them the keys and let them call Escape and take care of it, but that is not how it works.

Let's not forget the separate warranty on your tires, no matter what kind of vehicle you own. In addition you are purchasing a mobile home and if you have ever purchased a new home, the structure has it's warranty as do each appliance, separately. In an automobile, the appliances are made for that specific vehicle, whereas in the home they are generic, bolt on or stand alone units. Just trying to explain why cars and home warranties can be different

[fudge_brownie]

Originally Posted by sumac.rhus

If converting to lithium, how troublesome would it be to move the battery location to inside? (I've a 17B)

If I recall the 17 had the batteries on the rear bumper for a purpose. It was necessary to counter balance a heavy tongue weight on that model. Removing 70 lbs that is hanging that far back requires some planning and thought.

[rubicon327]

Originally Posted by fudge_brownie

If I recall the 17 had the batteries on the rear bumper for a purpose. It was necessary to counter balance a heavy tongue weight on that model. Removing 70 lbs that is hanging that far back requires some planning and thought.

Good point. Not only are the batteries moving forward they are getting lighter (with weight distributed differently side-to-side) if one goes to lithium. I don't predict a problem but best to measure tongue weight before and after. The good news is a little heavier on the tongue is much better than lighter on the tongue when it comes to preventing sway.

[TahoeJoe]

Great thread, lots of good info! One option that I'm interested in that I haven't yet found any discussion of in this forum, is to go with 4 6v batteries rather than 2. More weight and more room taken up...but a helluva lot cheaper (initially) than 2 lithium. Anyone here have any experience with that setup in an Escape?

[rubicon327]

Originally Posted by TahoeJoe

Great thread, lots of good info! One option that I'm interested in that I haven't yet found any discussion of in this forum, is to go with 4 6v batteries rather than 2. More weight and more room taken up...but a helluva lot cheaper (initially) than 2 lithium. Anyone here have any experience with that setup in an Escape?

Hotfishtacos (Steve) is the only one I've seen who has done four 6V's. This is on a 2012 19'. It is considerable weight. He had all four in the front box but had tongue weight concerns so he eventually moved two to an extended rear bumper. That also means considerable wiring lengths.
https://www.escapeforum.org/forums/f...tml#post303566

[John in Santa Cruz]

Originally Posted by TahoeJoe

Great thread, lots of good info! One option that I'm interested in that I haven't yet found any discussion of in this forum, is to go with 4 6v batteries rather than 2. More weight and more room taken up...but a helluva lot cheaper (initially) than 2 lithium. Anyone here have any experience with that setup in an Escape?

if you run 4 6V batts, you should wire them as two pairs in parallel then in series, like this... this better equalizes the cells.

[TahoeJoe]

Originally Posted by rubicon327

Hotfishtacos (Steve) is the only one I've seen who has done four 6V's. This is on a 2012 19'. It is considerable weight. He had all four in the front box but had tongue weight concerns so he eventually moved two to an extended rear bumper. That also means considerable wiring lengths.
https://www.escapeforum.org/forums/f...tml#post303566

Good point...although I did think about total weight, I didn't think much about the distribution of that weight. I wonder where the batteries will be installed by ETI on the new 23?

[TahoeJoe]

Originally Posted by John in Santa Cruz

if you run 4 6V batts, you should wire them as two pairs in parallel then in series, like this... this better equalizes the cells.

Right, which doubles the Ah capacity, at least in theory...I suspect it wouldn't double exactly, for electrical reasons I'm not aware of yet. I say "yet" in the hopes that someone more knowledgeable than me will chime in here about that...

[Flash]

Originally Posted by TahoeJoe

Great thread, lots of good info! One option that I'm interested in that I haven't yet found any discussion of in this forum, is to go with 4 6v batteries rather than 2. More weight and more room taken up...but a helluva lot cheaper (initially) than 2 lithium. Anyone here have any experience with that setup in an Escape?

I am also considering 4 six-volts for the E19 to help power the compressor fridge that I am seriously considering. I know the extra weight is a drawback, but the extra battery power sure would be nice.

[sumac.rhus]

Originally Posted by John in Santa Cruz

is there space under a bench near the DC power converter?

thats where the batt is on my E21, dual GC-2 battery box is about 4 feet from the power center, both are under the U dinette bench, along with the furnace. on the E21, this is in the back of the trailer.

Ha! - I had to look. Was pleasantly surprised to see how much room I DO have
Thanks for asking.

[alanmalk]

Originally Posted by TahoeJoe

Right, which doubles the Ah capacity, at least in theory...I suspect it wouldn't double exactly, for electrical reasons I'm not aware of yet. I say "yet" in the hopes that someone more knowledgeable than me will chime in here about that...

Actually - a bit of trivia that most of us can ignore: Parallel connections can more than double the capacity - by a little bit. It is due to the tenancy for lead-acid battery to loose capacity as the withdrawal rates go up. Note the capacity rating for lead-acid is rated at the industry standard "20 hour rate". If the same battery was rated at a 100 hour rate it would have a larger capacity (105AH vs 100AH for example). (Make sure when comparing battery capacity you verify the hour rate, to compare apples-to-apples.)

So, by using a parallel connection each battery is going to contribute at half the current that it would have as a single battery. It has more capacity at half the current than it could as a single configuration, so the user can pull more total power out of two batteries in parallel than out of two individual batteries not in parallel. Yes, kind of like magic, or something for nothing.

But I will stop here - I can hear the groans...
--
Alan

[TahoeJoe]

Originally Posted by alanmalk

Actually - a bit of trivia that most of us can ignore: Parallel connections can more than double the capacity - by a little bit. It is due to the tenancy for lead-acid battery to loose capacity as the withdrawal rates go up. Note the capacity rating for lead-acid is rated at the industry standard "20 hour rate". If the same battery was rated at a 100 hour rate it would have a larger capacity (105AH vs 100AH for example). (Make sure when comparing battery capacity you verify the hour rate, to compare apples-to-apples.)

So, by using a parallel connection each battery is going to contribute at half the current that it would have as a single battery. It has more capacity at half the current than it could as a single configuration, so the user can pull more total power out of two batteries in parallel than out of two individual batteries not in parallel. Yes, kind of like magic, or something for nothing.

But I will stop here - I can hear the groans...
--
Alan

See, I knew it! Thanks Alan, for confirming my suspicion that there was some hidden "magic" out there...