Lithium Ion vs Silicon Dioxide batteries

[Iwilson]

Hi all,
We are currently waiting for a new build, an Escape 19 and researching our options.

I am looking into Lithium ion battery alternatives since I can get 2 Silicon Dioxide batteries from a local solar supply outlet for the same price as one Lithium Ion battery from the factory. I don’t know much about batteries, are there any compatibility issues? The one I am looking at says it is a “100Ah 12V ESFN SiO2 G27 Marine & Solar Battery” and claims to be excellent quality.

Here’s what they claim:

“The Silicon Dioxide battery is a high performance battery comparable to Lithium-Ion in both depth of discharge and cycling capabilities for a third of its price. It even out-competes many similar Li-Ion batteries in longevity when subjected to the same discharge, temperatures, and partial state of charge abuse.”


Thanks
Ian

[NEWYORKHILLBILLY]

Perry bought a few to try. here is a link to the thread seems to be mixed thoughts on them .
https://www.escapeforum.org/forums/f...hem-20020.html

[JeffreyG]

The chemistry of what is referred to as a "silicon dioxide" battery is lead plates suspended in sulfuric acid. The construction absorbs the acid into silicon dioxide mats, which is fairly similar to an AGM battery.


IMO the manufacturers seem to be very careful to obscure the fact that the batteries are in fact lead-acid chemistry. You can take that however you like.


I have not found any direct testing results, and especially not found any independent testing results for the performance over time vs. depth of discharge in support of claims.

[Perry Butler]

We have a pair of Soneil SiO2 batteries.

As I've already found out, there will be a lot of bad opinions given here.

The batteries are lead plate batteries. I have seen every manufacturer state lead plates in their information. Nothing hidden there. 95% of the sulfuric acid is replaced by silicon dioxide, something you can't say about AGM batteries. They're as much AGM batteries as a diesel engine is a gas engine.

Why aren't they taking over the battery industry. Easy. They weigh the same as any other lead battery. Today's market is looking at weight reduction for portability. We don't have a weight problem, so don't need the weight savings.

Betta Batteries is no longer in business. They were the original producers after the current formula was found in 2009. The companies producing and selling SiO2 batteries today: Soniel sold in North America, EGE in Austraila sold under various brands, and Green Rhino (Netherlands and the US) and AE-Solar (Germany) in Europe.

We had the discretionary income and purchased a pair of 260 ah Soneil SiO2 batteries a few weeks ago, but since we're in an RV resort in Apache Junction have only four nights of data. All nights were below 40F with the furnace running. After using 22-26 ah's at night plus other draws (a movie one night), the lowest charge in the morning was 12.76 volts. That's a starting voltage after the sun goes down for other lead batteries not a waking voltage on a cold morning.

Our camper sits in the sun in a valley with the batteries on the south side where it can easily get over 110 degrees for the batteries. That's an early death for lithium, plus we camp in cold weather. We also wanted more than 100 ah's at a reasonable price.

Will the SiO2's last 10 years? Probably not with us. However I have found they do work and work well for others. I didn't start this as a legitimate research project, so failed to document all the users, but they're out there. The only negative information I can find is from those who've never used them, but they have their own preconceptions.

Over time I will add to my original thread. If they work great, I'll document that. If they fail, I'll document that also.

I don't recommend SiO2 any more than I would recommend AGM's today. After much research on our part I felt confident on their purchase. Rather than listen to those who have no experience and little, biased, or bad knowledge, I advise researching actual users.

Enjoy,

Perry

[Steve S.]

Originally Posted by Perryb67

We have a pair of Soneil SiO2 batteries.

As I've already found out, there will be a lot of bad opinions given here.

Wow! Your characterization of others' opinions is inappropriate, IMO.

[UncleTim]

Perry, did you have to purchase a new controller for those batteries, or did they just slip right in? Did you need a new enclosure?

I probably should just go read the entire thread. I am going to make a change when these batteries die.

[SWCO]

Originally Posted by Steve S.

Wow! Your characterization of others' opinions is inappropriate, IMO.

I read the thread Perryb67 refers to and find his characterization (unfortunately) accurate. Nothing inappropriate in my opinion.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by SWCO

I read the thread Perryb67 refers to and find his characterization (unfortunately) accurate. Nothing inappropriate in my opinion.

Well then your opinion is wrong

Just kidding - an opinion can't be wrong. A person can express misinformation, and their opinion can be based on misinformation or simply be different from yours, but fundamentally an opinion is neither right nor wrong, neither good nor bad. It is inappropriate to say that anyone's opinion is wrong or bad, even if you disagree with them.

I assume that Perry meant that in his assessment some misinformation and incorrect conclusions were shared in the other thread.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by Perryb67

95% of the sulfuric acid is replaced by silicon dioxide, something you can't say about AGM batteries.

Just to reduce the spread of misinformation, I'll note that (as mentioned in the other thread) Soneil themselves explains that these are AGM batteries, and Perry acknowledged that in the previous discussion. That doesn't mean that they are not meaningfully different from other AGM lead-acid batteries, just that they share the absorbed glass mat construction feature with all other AGM batteries, so they are a variety of AGM battery.

Originally Posted by Perryb67

They're as much AGM batteries as a diesel engine is a gas engine.

To continue this analogy, diesel and gas engines are both internal combustion engines but have different ignition schemes, just as conventional and SiO2 batteries are both lead-acid AGM batteries but have different electrolyte chemistry. Diesel and gasoline engines are so similar mechanically that some families of engines have been available in both versions, but they do perform differently; SiO2 and other AGM batteries are comparably similar in construction, and are claimed to perform differently.