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Old 06-18-2021, 12:42 PM   #1
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New 21C questions.........

Considering a 21C instead of the 21NE (first choice initially)..........


Batteries - appear to be under the dinette in the back PS instead of in the optional cargo box? I would go with the lithium option. Would prefer in cargo box.......



Tank & drain vents: How many showing on the roof?



Appears the black tank under the bed has a vent stack going up right at the bath wall? Where to?



Really don't like all that black tank plumbing exposed under the bed, but.............?



Supposedly a "hidden" gray vent for the shower and sink in the bath wall between the sink & door? AAV installed?



Sink vent? Where and how. AAV?


Any cross connections between the black and gray vents?
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Old 06-18-2021, 01:34 PM   #2
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Now there, I would think, are some genuine questions for the experts at Escape trailer.What was done in the past may not be what’s going to happen on your new build. I’d say the manufacturer would be the most reliable source of this info. Am I right or am I wr wr wr wr wrong. Geez that was hard to type.
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Old 06-18-2021, 01:55 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by 7Gentex View Post
Considering a 21C instead of the 21NE (first choice initially)..........


Batteries - appear to be under the dinette in the back PS instead of in the optional cargo box?
Yes, the battery has always been under the dinette in the original 21' (now called 21C) and in the 5.0TA (now just called 5.0).
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Old 06-18-2021, 02:02 PM   #4
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Considering a 21C instead of the 21NE (first choice initially)..........

Really don't like all that black tank plumbing exposed under the bed, but.............?
The discharge of the black tank is inboard of the frame rails, but the outlet of the piping needs to be outboard on the driver's side.

If the tank discharged down through the floor (like other models), it would need to go through the frame rail, or cross under it. Going through the frame rail would be expensive. Passing under the frame rail would need to happen as far back as possible to maintain a slope to the outlet (and even then would be marginal), and the pipe would need to share space between the frame rails with the grey waste tank.

Escape's solution appears to be to run above the floor to a point outboard of the frame rail, where it drops down. This has more than one undesirable consequence.
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Old 06-18-2021, 04:46 PM   #5
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Now there, I would think, are some genuine questions for the experts at Escape trailer.What was done in the past may not be whatís going to happen on your new build. Iíd say the manufacturer would be the most reliable source of this info. Am I right or am I wr wr wr wr wrong. Geez that was hard to type.
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For me, the recent approach experienced by current owners would be helpful as a foundation prior to asking ETI.
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Old 06-18-2021, 04:47 PM   #6
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Yes, the battery has always been under the dinette in the original 21' (now called 21C) and in the 5.0TA (now just called 5.0).



Thanks


I will see if they will relocate it to the storage box.

Doubt it these days.........
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Old 06-18-2021, 04:51 PM   #7
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The discharge of the black tank is inboard of the frame rails, but the outlet of the piping needs to be outboard on the driver's side.

If the tank discharged down through the floor (like other models), it would need to go through the frame rail, or cross under it. Going through the frame rail would be expensive. Passing under the frame rail would need to happen as far back as possible to maintain a slope to the outlet (and even then would be marginal), and the pipe would need to share space between the frame rails with the grey waste tank.

Escape's solution appears to be to run above the floor to a point outboard of the frame rail, where it drops down. This has more than one undesirable consequence.

Thanks.


All those black tank connections INSIDE the trailer just gives me the hebee-jeebees............



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Old 06-18-2021, 06:40 PM   #8
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All those black tank connections INSIDE the trailer just gives me the hebee-jeebees...
Then it will probably be worse when I tell you that some people have had problems with the connection at the tank outlet leaking, often enough that Escape has a solution developed (including adding a flexible section, which should have been there from the beginning to reduce stress on the fitting). The construction method uses an adhesive sealant (Sikaflex) to make a poorly designed plumbing configuration work, at a joint where no such sealant should be required because it has tapered pipe threads. Of course, of the hundreds of 21's produced, this joint is known to have failed in a very small fraction.
ETI video:
Fixing Your Leaky Black Tank
Earlier discussion: Leaky black water tank under bed
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Old 06-18-2021, 09:27 PM   #9
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Then it will probably be worse when I tell you that some people have had problems with the connection at the tank outlet leaking, ....................

Ugh..........


Appreciate the info and links.

Guess a really small black tank instead on a 19 or 21NE might not be too bad, comparatively ! Even if potential cross feeding from the black to gray due to a shared (and low) vent.

Black tank contents inside the camper shell is a definite "no go"

Really attracted to the fiberglass shell construction and cabinetwork for the money, but..............what is the deal with plumbing related?


Back to looking at this week's inventory selection.............
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Old 06-20-2021, 12:20 PM   #10
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Black tank

How do we lubricate the black and grey tank openings so they slide easily what is the maintenance to do we own a 2016 E21c and they are getting harder each year
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Old 06-20-2021, 12:34 PM   #11
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How do we lubricate the black and grey tank openings so they slide easily what is the maintenance to do we own a 2016 E21c and they are getting harder each year
Do you mean the valves or the plastic covers?
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Old 06-20-2021, 01:30 PM   #12
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Valves for black tank

Yes the valves they are getting harder by the year what do others do maintenance wise Jim W
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Old 06-20-2021, 02:12 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by 7Gentex View Post
Thanks


I will see if they will relocate it to the storage box.

Doubt it these days.........

I too was concerned about that weight in the very back but the trailer is heavy enough, does not seem to be a concern. and, you probably know this, but 2 6v batteries (with their 220Ah capacity) weigh around 130 pounds. i replaced with a single 400Ah LFP battery that weights 91 pounds. so, if you're going lithium, the weight really shouldn't be a problem. or, was the issue freeing up storage space? i agree that it's a long shot that they'll relocate to the storage box because they'd have to rewire the whole solar system. plus, would you then have to worry more about keeping the battery warm during cold camping?
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Old 06-21-2021, 09:37 AM   #14
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Maintenance on black tank valves?

What needs to be done to free up black and grey tank valves or do we just replace after so many years? What is the maintenance schedule Jim W
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Old 06-21-2021, 09:51 AM   #15
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What needs to be done to free up black and grey tank valves or do we just replace after so many years? What is the maintenance schedule Jim W
I have not done this but it sure looks like an easy and effective solution...
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Old 06-21-2021, 10:26 AM   #16
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Pretty slick; thanks Dave.
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Old 06-21-2021, 04:51 PM   #17
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I too was concerned about that weight in the very back but the trailer is heavy enough, does not seem to be a concern. and, you probably know this, but 2 6v batteries (with their 220Ah capacity) weigh around 130 pounds. i replaced with a single 400Ah LFP battery that weights 91 pounds. so, if you're going lithium, the weight really shouldn't be a problem. or, was the issue freeing up storage space? i agree that it's a long shot that they'll relocate to the storage box because they'd have to rewire the whole solar system. plus, would you then have to worry more about keeping the battery warm during cold camping?
Not a fan of batteries inside the unit.

Lead acid - nope
AGM - maybe
Lithium - now a nope, maybe over time I'll be a maybe on these.
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Old 06-21-2021, 05:25 PM   #18
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The lithium batteries are in the front storage box on the 21NE. And the black tank is 13.2 gallons, as verified by an email from Melisa at ETI. Maybe you should reconsider.
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Old 06-21-2021, 05:49 PM   #19
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on the 21C, the batteries in back are in a sealed battery box with a vent line that goes out the side of the trailer near the battery box, on the rear curbside of the trailer.

roof of a fully loaded 2014 21 classic...

(front of trailer to the rigth, curbside at the bottom)


that large round black 'vent' at the front curbside is the bathroom fan.
the vent near it is, afaik, for the black tank. the vent in the middle of the curb side is for the grey tank. only the kitchen sink uses a 'p-trap', the bathroom sink uses a HepvO valve as does the shower, these don't need anti-siphon vents at each trap.
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Old 06-21-2021, 07:26 PM   #20
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The lithium batteries are in the front storage box on the 21NE. And the black tank is 13.2 gallons, as verified by an email from Melisa at ETI. Maybe you should reconsider.

Yep, but the 13.2 gallon black in the 21NE is what has me looking elsewhere..........13.2g is too small most likely - and then the black overflowing into the gray (via the common, and low vent), and uncapped (no AAV) vent stacks in the walls, and................


I know there are issues with everything, but...


I'll just sit awhile for now and see what develops......or not.



GCDR1 is not until 12/2022 anyways
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