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Old 04-16-2021, 07:25 PM   #1
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New 21NE - batteries

Just put down a deposit for a 21 NE - should have ordered a year + ago....

Questions:

With the twin 6 volt battery option - are they AGM?

And, are they located in the front storage box (will be ordered)


Thanks!
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Old 04-16-2021, 08:52 PM   #2
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They are flooded cell lead-acid batteries, and they are located in the front storage box.
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Old 04-16-2021, 09:42 PM   #3
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Thanks..................


Still on the fence on which batts to get............
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Old 04-17-2021, 06:10 AM   #4
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twin 6v batteries are less expensive and easy to find and replace and really do a good job. 6v flooded batteries do require some minimal maintenance, but this is no problem when you have them in the front storage box. I would not want flooded batteries inside under a bench.
I do like agm for certain applications, like the starter battery for my boat. agm batteries are tough and can put up with lots of abuse in a marine environment and an irregular charging schedule.
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Old 04-17-2021, 05:26 PM   #5
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twin 6v batteries are less expensive and easy to find and replace and really do a good job. 6v flooded batteries do require some minimal maintenance, but this is no problem when you have them in the front storage box. I would not want flooded batteries inside under a bench.
I do like agm for certain applications, like the starter battery for my boat. agm batteries are tough and can put up with lots of abuse in a marine environment and an irregular charging schedule.



I've had flooded and AGM in vehicles and travel trailers, and will not go back to flooded regardless of where mounted.


Tongue weight is also a factor with the dual 6v lead/acid. I am tongue weight limited on my current TV, though it may be worn out before the Escape is produced!



The dual lithium / dual panel approach may be calling as I am leaning toward the DC compressor fridge as well.
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Old 04-21-2021, 10:48 AM   #6
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Battery type choice entails many factors and your personal usage style. However, the data presented in this video helped me make my choice.
https://youtu.be/iy3hga_P5YY
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Old 04-21-2021, 11:51 AM   #7
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Battery type choice entails many factors and your personal usage style. However, the data presented in this video helped me make my choice.
https://youtu.be/iy3hga_P5YY
Thank you sir, though my head hurts now!


Heated LiFePO4s appear to be the way.................
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Old 04-21-2021, 12:31 PM   #8
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How much battery does heating it consume?
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Old 04-21-2021, 12:52 PM   #9
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How much battery does heating it consume?

Per Battleborn FAQ on internally heated batteries:



https://battlebornbatteries.com/faq/


"On average, the heated battery consumes an average of 1.8 amps. Our tests indicate that at 0 degrees Fahrenheit, with no insulation, the heater is on about 30% of the time. With no external charging or loads it gives approximately 185 hours of heat capability before the battery goes into low voltage disconnect. With warmer temperatures you can consume less power and if you insulate your batteries you can extend the usage as well. "
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Old 04-21-2021, 02:34 PM   #10
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Per Battleborn FAQ on internally heated batteries:
https://battlebornbatteries.com/faq/
"On average, the heated battery consumes an average of 1.8 amps. Our tests indicate that at 0 degrees Fahrenheit, with no insulation, the heater is on about 30% of the time. With no external charging or loads it gives approximately 185 hours of heat capability before the battery goes into low voltage disconnect. With warmer temperatures you can consume less power and if you insulate your batteries you can extend the usage as well. "
Good information.

So if you start with 50% charge that's 93 hours, and if you need to use (for instance) 25 amp-hours per day in addition to the 43 amp-hours per day that the heater uses, you can't make it more than one day.

This appears to me to be a feature to handle storage with external power available, or to get through one cold day when camping, not a general solution for severe cold-weather use.
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Old 04-21-2021, 02:51 PM   #11
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Good information.

So if you start with 50% charge that's 93 hours, and if you need to use (for instance) 25 amp-hours per day in addition to the 43 amp-hours per day that the heater uses, you can't make it more than one day.

This appears to me to be a feature to handle storage with external power available, or to get through one cold day when camping, not a general solution for severe cold-weather use.
Without solar or some other input............



But, being a southern boy..............I will not be anywhere near "severe cold" if I have any choice in the matter! I'd rather sweat than shiver. If it is near freezing, I'll be in the cabin by the wood stove.
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Old 04-21-2021, 05:34 PM   #12
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Without solar or some other input............
Yes, solar would count... if only anyone's system is likely to deliver an extra 43 amp-hours per day in winter sunlight conditions while handling winter electrical loads (such as the furnace).
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Old 04-21-2021, 09:50 PM   #13
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Yes, solar would count... if only anyone's system is likely to deliver an extra 43 amp-hours per day in winter sunlight conditions while handling winter electrical loads (such as the furnace).



So what is your suggestion?
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Old 04-22-2021, 12:11 AM   #14
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How much battery does heating it consume?
The Li battery heater will use around 1amp, plus or minus, depending upon the temperture & insulation, but the battery works to provide power and can be charged. If you don't want to consume the 1 amp in a low temp situation you can disable the heater. These batteries come with manual heater on/off switch. Multile batteries are daisy chained on this single manual enable/ disable heat switch. If you disable the heat to save the 1 amp heater usage during a low temp event & trigger the BMS to shut down the battery, you bought some amps but can't get any power or charge the battery until it warms up by some other method. Catch 22. I don't plan to disable heat in a low temp event and just keep an eye on the charging needs.
Also, I plan to shut down the standard battery outside vent, add some insulation, and perhaps put a vent under the dinette so some interior heat makes its way into the battery box area.
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Old 04-22-2021, 12:16 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by 7Gentex View Post
So what is your suggestion?
Not using lithium batteries if you actually need winter performance, and getting the heaters but having realistic expectations if you just need to keep them alive in storage (with shore power) or need to get through the occasional cold day.
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Old 04-22-2021, 12:33 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by Brian B-P View Post
Good information.

So if you start with 50% charge that's 93 hours, and if you need to use (for instance) 25 amp-hours per day in addition to the 43 amp-hours per day that the heater uses, you can't make it more than one day.

This appears to me to be a feature to handle storage with external power available, or to get through one cold day when camping, not a general solution for severe cold-weather use.
If you are going to be in a situation of severe cold weather use for an extended period may be best to have several batteries and/or sun with a few panels or perhaps a generator. With 2-3 Li batteries & no solar you may need to run the generator for an hour or two every other day or perhaps every third day. Still will get further with less charging episodes with the Li batteries than with flooded or AGM batteries. The cold weather data in the video for those batteries was quite surprising. Extended cold weather camping will take more of pretty much everything.
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Old 04-22-2021, 07:28 PM   #17
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........(snip)........... Still will get further with less charging episodes with the Li batteries than with flooded or AGM batteries. The cold weather data in the video for those batteries was quite surprising. Extended cold weather camping will take more of pretty much everything.

This.



A 100 amp/hr LiFePro4 will actually deliver the rated power, even in the very cold, flooded and AGM lead/acid, not not even close.....................


The only drawback for the LiFePro4 (other than the initial cost which is actually better amortized over the long run) is when you need to charge and the BATTERY CORE (not ambient) is below freezing or REALLY hot. Also LiFePro4 batteries do not need to be on a tender / float during storage regardless of temp. And, they weight less than 1/2 of a comparable "rated" flooded / AGM.


I'm tending toward a dual solar panel, and a Zamp outlet, with dual lithiums to start. Wish I could get heated Battleborns to start, but will not be much of an item for my usual camping weather.


A/C rules down here - hookups / generator is standard.
You will melt without it. Nobody complains about A/C or gen noise in August when it is 100+F



Wish there was a "standard" inverter/variable speed A/C approach for RVs. LRA demand is zip comparably speaking. The mini-split mods are awesome, but why no "drop-in"?
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Old 04-23-2021, 02:18 PM   #18
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We are opting of the double solar panels and two lithium batteries, which will be located in the front storage box. Lithium is lighter, you can run them down to practically 0%, and they have a longer life. Up front cost is huge, but worth it IMHO.
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Old 04-24-2021, 09:34 AM   #19
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This.

Wish I could get heated Battleborns to start, but will not be much of an item for my usual camping weather.
You can get the heated Battleborns if you wish & have the time. This Canadian supplier will have them in stock by July & will ship them to ETI using the Candian system so there is no border crossing difficultly. ETI will install them and setup your power system.
https://www.solacity.com/
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Old 04-24-2021, 05:50 PM   #20
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You can get the heated Battleborns if you wish & have the time. This Canadian supplier will have them in stock by July & will ship them to ETI using the Candian system so there is no border crossing difficultly. ETI will install them and setup your power system.
https://www.solacity.com/



Thanks for the link.


I'm at least a year out, maybe 2, so PLENTY (TOO much!) time..........
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