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Old 07-28-2022, 02:32 PM   #1
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New Lithium Battery Option

First off, let me thank all of you who contribute to this forum. My wife and I are completing the build sheet for our much anticipated 21C and have used this forum extensively to help us through the many decisions that have to be made. We have tent camped for many years, but this is our first venture into the world of RVing, so all of your opinions and insights have been extremely valuable. Thank you!!!

My question is regarding the new lithium battery option being offered by Escape. I am interested to hear some of your opinions about these batteries. The batteries are called Hublion and are supplied by a company called Hub Power. Unfortunately, because they are not one of the popular brands sold by retailers or available online, it is difficult to find reviews on these batteries. For other brands, it is possible to find detailed reviews that include extensive testing and the disassembling of the battery to get a better idea of the build quality. Here is a link to the Hublion battery data sheet.

https://hubpower.ca/wp-content/uploa...0-LFP-24-1.pdf

I would appreciate any insights anyone could provide after looking at the data sheet or from personal experience using these batteries.

I would also be interested in your opinions on the components used in the solar/charging system. From reading the forum, it sounds like the switch to Victron components is an upgrade. The DC to DC charger, the smart solar controller, the smart shunt, and the battery monitor display are now all Victron components.
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Old 07-28-2022, 08:21 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Live In The Moment View Post
First off, let me thank all of you who contribute to this forum. My wife and I are completing the build sheet for our much anticipated 21C and have used this forum extensively to help us through the many decisions that have to be made. We have tent camped for many years, but this is our first venture into the world of RVing, so all of your opinions and insights have been extremely valuable. Thank you!!!

My question is regarding the new lithium battery option being offered by Escape. I am interested to hear some of your opinions about these batteries. The batteries are called Hublion and are supplied by a company called Hub Power. Unfortunately, because they are not one of the popular brands sold by retailers or available online, it is difficult to find reviews on these batteries. For other brands, it is possible to find detailed reviews that include extensive testing and the disassembling of the battery to get a better idea of the build quality. Here is a link to the Hublion battery data sheet.

https://hubpower.ca/wp-content/uploa...0-LFP-24-1.pdf

I would appreciate any insights anyone could provide after looking at the data sheet or from personal experience using these batteries.

I would also be interested in your opinions on the components used in the solar/charging system. From reading the forum, it sounds like the switch to Victron components is an upgrade. The DC to DC charger, the smart solar controller, the smart shunt, and the battery monitor display are now all Victron components.
At a glance, this new lithium option is a battery company based offshore. The specs seem "typical". It appears to be cell based, not pouch (good). No experience with this brand though. Perhaps some recent owners have direct experience.

The ETI cost is seemly high: $1540 for a 100 Ahr battery; $420 for lithium ready. A 100 Ahr battery by Battle Born is $874, a Victron DC-DC converter is less than $100, upgrading cables and other parts would cost about $200. If you have the background and skills, my recommendation is to go with the basic Pb-acid setup and modify afterword after you have experience with what you want.
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Old 07-28-2022, 09:47 PM   #3
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I went with the lithium ready and a single lead acid battery. I purchased a group 4D 300ah lithium battery and will be starting the installation tomorrow.

So far I’m ok with my decision, I wound up with more capacity for less money, well, still sitting on the office floor. I’ll be posting a thread of my installation so others can learn from my process, as my process follows, at least in part, those of others.
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Old 07-29-2022, 08:55 AM   #4
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Thinking about adding a second Battleborn 100AH to the tongue box so pulled everything out and made this inner box to accommodate another one when the time comes. It will have a lid.
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Old 08-03-2022, 11:42 PM   #5
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I've been impressed with Victron. The dc-dc converter on our 5.0 is easy to use. I installed a Thornwave shunt for the data storage feature, but have a Victron 100/20 SCC going in to replace the Go Power controller, which I'm unhappy with. Poor low light performance and I’ve had the bluetooth fail on two units now. The shift to Victron is a good move imo, but agree the factory $ are high for the work.
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Old 08-04-2022, 08:20 AM   #6
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Agreed on the quality of Victron equipment. I have a Victron smart shunt, Victron solar controller, and Victron DC-DC converter. My only complaint with Victron is the quality of the documentation. Quite lacking. There is a Victron forum is you need additional information though.
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Old 08-04-2022, 08:53 AM   #7
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Victron Forum

Thanks! Didn't realize there was a community. https://community.victronenergy.com/index.html

Agree totally with the lack of documentation. Correcting the dc-dc converter settings from Escape took a bit of trial and error and guesses. Finally clicked that 'power supply' mode was exactly that.
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Old 08-10-2022, 04:16 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by MVA View Post
At a glance, this new lithium option is a battery company based offshore. The specs seem "typical".
Almost all lithium-ion batteries are made in Asia, and even the ones assembled in North America are typically built of imported cells. They're all going to be similar in specs.

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Originally Posted by MVA View Post
It appears to be cell based, not pouch (good).
Lithium-ion cells come in pouch, prismatic, and cylindrical formats - they're all cells, and all batteries are made of cells. I assume that you mean that it appears to be built of cylindrical cells - whether that is good or not is a matter of opinion, but it's certainly a reasonable approach.

Battery-electric cars use lithium-ion cells in all three formats, with pouch being the most common and prismatic being unusual; Tesla uses cylindrical in most models (but not their LiFePO4 variants).
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Old 08-10-2022, 04:30 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by sameo416 View Post
Thanks! Didn't realize there was a community. https://community.victronenergy.com/index.html

Agree totally with the lack of documentation. Correcting the dc-dc converter settings from Escape took a bit of trial and error and guesses. Finally clicked that 'power supply' mode was exactly that.
Thank you for your input. You mentioned that you had to correct the settings that Escape had originally setup. Do you anticipate that I will need to make adjustments when I receive my trailer? If so, what might they be. Will it be necessary to make adjustments based on my usage or the conditions in which I use the trailer. I have learned a little about the solar/charging system but for the most part I am new to this. The smart shunt and solar controller will give me feedback, but I'm just not sure that I would be able to interpret it and make the necessary adjustments.
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Old 08-10-2022, 05:24 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by splitting_lanes View Post
I went with the lithium ready and a single lead acid battery. I purchased a group 4D 300ah lithium battery and will be starting the installation tomorrow.

So far I’m ok with my decision, I wound up with more capacity for less money, well, still sitting on the office floor. I’ll be posting a thread of my installation so others can learn from my process, as my process follows, at least in part, those of others.
Hi. We got our 19 in June. I also ordered the single lead acid lithium ready set up. I found that the battery cables and primary wiring is 8 gauge marine grade. Do you plan on upsizing your cables?
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Old 08-10-2022, 05:41 PM   #11
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We were in the first group with the Victron dc-dc converters on the tow vehicle power. When we picked up the trailer Dave mentioned he had set up the converter - commented something like 'thought it was correct'. I left it for a year as it's not safety critical.

When I looked this year, it was set so that there was never power from the tow vehicle to the battery - explained part of the mystery of why running my fridge on tow on a super sunny day flattened the battery (I was counting on 2 amps from the tv along with 7-10 from the solar).

So I messed around with the settings until I understood the operation. You can run in charger mode (when it acts as a smart charger and monitors battery state) or in power supply mode (which delivers constant voltage which can be set). I'm unclear how accurate the battery monitoring is from the front end of the trailer - checking the voltage measured there vs at the battery is a future project. So I've been running the dc-dc in power supply mode, 13.6 volts. Issue with the accuracy of voltage is the ability to accurately gauge battery state...and with Li and a battery management system as long as you give it adequate voltage and current, it will do the rest. Hence, power supply mode.

The Victron MPPT charge controller I just put in also required some tweaking. The Li defaults were off what the battery manufacturer recommends, that adjusted today.

I put in a Thornwave shunt after a year of having no idea about battery state of charge. The Go Power controller used previously does a really poor job gauging capacity. The shunt is best decision of all, as it allows you to see exactly what battery state is along with system load.

Summing up - these adjustments didn't need to be done quickly as it's trimming adjustments for best performance as I learned the system. I wouldn't worry as you can figure things out as you use the trailer and relying on the corporate wisdom available here.
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Old 08-10-2022, 10:07 PM   #12
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Hi. We got our 19 in June. I also ordered the single lead acid lithium ready set up. I found that the battery cables and primary wiring is 8 gauge marine grade. Do you plan on upsizing your cables?
I’m not going to upsize the cables. The part that’s easy to get too isn’t long enough to have much of a voltage drop. At least in a 5.0, because everything is so close together.

The inverter cables are 2 gauge, I’m installing a shunt and connecting it with a 1 gauge wire.

If I notice warm wires I’ll revisit upsizing the wire. But really, the wire that should get the size increase is the +12v on the 7 pin, which runs to the dc/dc inverter, then to the back…. Too many places to touch for a small increase in charging speed

Just my opinion.
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Old 08-12-2022, 12:22 PM   #13
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Splitting Lanes, Looking forward to seeing your lithium battery install.
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Old 08-12-2022, 08:50 PM   #14
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I was just picking up parts today for the wiring part — hope to get it working this weekend.

Still bouncing back from a bout of Covid. I had an hour long flight 12 days ago. I wore a mask, and the guy next to me had one on also, but he was sick and coughing. I should have worn an N95 mask, and not removed it for a drink! Live and learn.
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Old 10-21-2022, 10:15 AM   #15
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Winter storage for HubLion battery

I picked up my 21C with full off-grid package in August. I was ecstatic to discover Escape had installed the Victron MPPT solar charge controller and the Victron smart shunt. I didn't, however, know how to safely winterize the HubLion batteries. I finally contacted Hub Power via email for the manufacturer's recommendation for winter storage and received the User Manual as a PDF file (a brief and easy to understand manual).

Under STORAGE Section 7 the manual states:
A. Disconnect batteries from all loads and charging sources when placing into storage.
B. Storing at 50% to 80% depth of discharge is recommended.
C. Storing at room temperature (21 to 25 degrees C) is recommended in the off season or idle times.
D. Batteries will discharge approximately 3% per month.
E. For long term storage complete a full charge and discharge every 6 months.

I was hoping the recommendation would be similar to Battle Born recommendation to fully charge the battery and can be stored in any temperature. I was hoping I could leave the batteries in the trailer, but looks like I will need to remove and bring them inside.
The manual was sent as a PDF file so I don't know how I can share it.
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Old 10-21-2022, 10:33 AM   #16
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The manual was sent as a PDF file so I don't know how I can share it. just refer to it as a link or use the manufacturer's website...
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Old 10-21-2022, 10:39 AM   #17
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I guess you have to fill in the blanks a bit with the instructions.

E states to charge and discharge.

It does not say to bring the the batteries back up to between 50 and 80% again to resume storage.
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Old 10-21-2022, 12:43 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David in Iowa View Post
I picked up my 21C with full off-grid package in August. I was ecstatic to discover Escape had installed the Victron MPPT solar charge controller and the Victron smart shunt. I didn't, however, know how to safely winterize the HubLion batteries. I finally contacted Hub Power via email for the manufacturer's recommendation for winter storage and received the User Manual as a PDF file (a brief and easy to understand manual).

Under STORAGE Section 7 the manual states:
A. Disconnect batteries from all loads and charging sources when placing into storage.
B. Storing at 50% to 80% depth of discharge is recommended.
C. Storing at room temperature (21 to 25 degrees C) is recommended in the off season or idle times.
D. Batteries will discharge approximately 3% per month.
E. For long term storage complete a full charge and discharge every 6 months.

I was hoping the recommendation would be similar to Battle Born recommendation to fully charge the battery and can be stored in any temperature. I was hoping I could leave the batteries in the trailer, but looks like I will need to remove and bring them inside.
The manual was sent as a PDF file so I don't know how I can share it.

Attached is the HUBLiON Manual.
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File Type: pdf HUBLiON Installation and Operation Manual.pdf (465.2 KB, 21 views)
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Old 10-21-2022, 01:08 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by Live In The Moment View Post
I would also be interested in your opinions on the components used in the solar/charging system. From reading the forum, it sounds like the switch to Victron components is an upgrade. The DC to DC charger, the smart solar controller, the smart shunt, and the battery monitor display are now all Victron components.
IMO, the lithium ready option is worth every penny. The batteries from Escape are too expensive.

I am currently converting my 2020 Escape 19 dual 6V FLA batteries to a 300ah Chins Smart LiFePO4 with internal heater ($1300). Since I didn't have the Escape installed GoPower inverter I have to upgrade the battery to trailer cables to 1 AWG. Without the inverter Escape used 8 AWG wires from the front box to the trailer. I previously added an inverter with 2 dedicated Weize 100 ah batteries ($350) under my dinette seats.

I have more wiring since I have two battery banks, but, in hindsight I wish I had Escape install the inverter and make the trailer lithium ready. However, 3rd party lithium prices were higher in 2020, and I didn't realize I would have to upgrade as much wiring as I have.
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