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Old 12-22-2019, 12:15 PM   #1
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solar controller as a shore power charger ?

I installed the Trimetric battery monitor and solar controller in my trailer for a number of reasons. One of the reasons was the versatile 4 stage programmability of the charge controller with equalizing function.

Bogart Engineering suggest using the charge controller with a suitable DC supply as a shore powered programable battery charger,

"May be used as a DC-DC charger to charge house battery using the vehicle’s battery/alternator, with a 30 second delay. May also be used with a 16 V DC power supply as a high performance shore power charger."

- Bogart Engineering

https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=...gU7FrUqNu-3Evw

I appears that a 15 V, 26 A DC supply could be purchased rather inexpensively ($50 C) on Amazon, not sure how long it might last at this price,

https://www.amazon.ca/Switching-Moni...0&sr=8-40&th=1

The converter supplied in the trailer apparently isn't practical for use with a generator. So this might provide an inexpensive alternative with more control than I'd have with any off-the-shelf battery charger or converter. With the way the controller is integrated into the battery monitor data I think it might be an excellent solution.

Bob
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Old 12-22-2019, 12:27 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lanark Camper View Post
I installed the Trimetric battery monitor and solar controller in my trailer for a number of reasons. One of the reasons was the versatile 4 stage programmability of the charge controller with equalizing function.

Bogart Engineering suggest using the charge controller with a suitable DC supply as a shore powered programable battery charger,

"May be used as a DC-DC charger to charge house battery using the vehicle’s battery/alternator, with a 30 second delay. May also be used with a 16 V DC power supply as a high performance shore power charger."

- Bogart Engineering

https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=...gU7FrUqNu-3Evw

I appears that a 15 V, 26 A DC supply could be purchased rather inexpensively ($50 C) on Amazon, not sure how long it might last at this price,

https://www.amazon.ca/Switching-Moni...0&sr=8-40&th=1

The converter supplied in the trailer apparently isn't practical for use with a generator. So this might provide an inexpensive alternative with more control than I'd have with any off-the-shelf battery charger or converter. With the way the controller is integrated into the battery monitor data I think it might be an excellent solution.

Bob
That is one smart idea!

The one you listed is for Canada - here is a 30 amp listing for the US - $19.
https://www.amazon.com/BMOUO-Univers.../dp/B01EWG6YT8

A waterproof box to hold it, an electric cord to plug it into my generator, a SAE connection to plug it into my portable solar port, and set to 15 volts output - I would have 30 amps from my generator going into my Victron 100/30.
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Old 12-22-2019, 02:04 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by Lanark Camper View Post
I installed the Trimetric battery monitor and solar controller in my trailer for a number of reasons. One of the reasons was the versatile 4 stage programmability of the charge controller with equalizing function.

Bogart Engineering suggest using the charge controller with a suitable DC supply as a shore powered programable battery charger,

"May be used as a DC-DC charger to charge house battery using the vehicle’s battery/alternator, with a 30 second delay. May also be used with a 16 V DC power supply as a high performance shore power charger."

- Bogart Engineering

https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=...gU7FrUqNu-3Evw

I appears that a 15 V, 26 A DC supply could be purchased rather inexpensively ($50 C) on Amazon, not sure how long it might last at this price,

https://www.amazon.ca/Switching-Moni...0&sr=8-40&th=1

The converter supplied in the trailer apparently isn't practical for use with a generator. So this might provide an inexpensive alternative with more control than I'd have with any off-the-shelf battery charger or converter. With the way the controller is integrated into the battery monitor data I think it might be an excellent solution.

Bob

Bob this seems like a great idea . I just want to make sure i understand the hook up of this. you buy this and adjust voltage as high as you could up to 16V . From feedback on amazon looks like one guy got 15.4 volts out of it. Then this dc voltage would be hooked into the system as it was coming from a solar panel? I have the 2030 sc in my casita. I also all ready have a external plug for a portable panel that goes direct to the solar controller. I should be able just to plug this in my solar input?
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Old 12-22-2019, 02:18 PM   #4
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As long as the combination of the solar & DC power supply doesn't exceed the 30 amp input limit on the solar controller it should work.

I don't believe most solar controllers work as an up DC to DC converter, so it probably wouldn't work to feed the tow vehicle charge line into it.
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Old 12-22-2019, 02:46 PM   #5
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I don't believe most solar controllers work as an up DC to DC converter, so it probably wouldn't work to feed the tow vehicle charge line into it.
A PWM controller could only reduce voltage, but an MPPT controller may (depending on the specific controller) also boost voltage.
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Old 12-22-2019, 04:24 PM   #6
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As long as the combination of the solar & DC power supply doesn't exceed the 30 amp input limit on the solar controller it should work.

I don't believe most solar controllers work as an up DC to DC converter, so it probably wouldn't work to feed the tow vehicle charge line into it.
Jon, did you watch this video,

https://youtu.be/2yhC-43P_Uk

Bogart says the controller will with up to a 55 V input and it will limit the current to 30 Amps.

Bob
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Old 12-22-2019, 04:31 PM   #7
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Bob this seems like a great idea . I just want to make sure i understand the hook up of this. you buy this and adjust voltage as high as you could up to 16V . From feedback on amazon looks like one guy got 15.4 volts out of it. Then this dc voltage would be hooked into the system as it was coming from a solar panel? I have the 2030 sc in my casita. I also all ready have a external plug for a portable panel that goes direct to the solar controller. I should be able just to plug this in my solar input?
Obviously you have to be sure the polarity is correct, include a fuse.

In my case I'll switch the solar panel off before plugging in the power supply.

Then turn on the power supply and you should have a 30 Amp charger with a custom programmed profile for your make and model of battery bank. Provided you also bought the battery monitor that allows programming the 2030's charging profile.

Bob
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Old 12-22-2019, 05:05 PM   #8
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That is one smart idea!

The one you listed is for Canada - here is a 30 amp listing for the US - $19.
https://www.amazon.com/BMOUO-Univers.../dp/B01EWG6YT8

A waterproof box to hold it, an electric cord to plug it into my generator, a SAE connection to plug it into my portable solar port, and set to 15 volts output - I would have 30 amps from my generator going into my Victron 100/30.
My plan is to try using a 15 V 30 A power supply rather than the 12 V you referenced. If I see a 20 V supply I'd buy that. The 2030 will only apply the voltage you programmed into it for your batteries, so a higher voltage is probably better especially for equalizing.

Let me know how you make out. I've got a foot on snow on top of my Escape so won't be trying this mod until March.


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Old 12-22-2019, 05:26 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by Lanark Camper View Post
Jon, did you watch this video,

https://youtu.be/2yhC-43P_Uk

Bogart says the controller will with up to a 55 V input and it will limit the current to 30 Amps.

Bob
I watched the video and have a couple of questions. What voltage is the vehicle alternator producing? Most tow vehicle alternators will not continue to produce the suggested lithium bulk charging voltage of 14.4 volts if at all, and if they do, only a short time just after starting. If the Bogart 2030 is an up DC to DC converter, it should work well with the tow vehicle. If not, I'd prefer to use one that is designed to increase voltage.

You can put current into lithium batteries at a lower voltage, but will not fully charge them, at least with Battleborn batteries. I'm not familiar with the charging specifications of the Bogart lithium battery.

If Bogart states the controller can operate safely with up to 55v input, that is great, but you won't find anywhere near that from most tow vehicles. As to the maximum current, I know the Bogart 2030 is designed to limit current to its 30 amp rating, but being conservative with electrical components, I'd prefer not to connect a high voltage source with unlimited current capabilities to one.
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Old 12-22-2019, 06:39 PM   #10
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Would it be easier to use the external solar plug in the trailer wired directly to the batteries with a inline fuse . Than you can plug a quality 10 amp three stage battery charger in that socket to charge the batteries and maintain the batteries in the winter with a small trickle charger . When using the portable solar panel in this this plug add a inline charge regulator their quite cheap .
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Old 12-22-2019, 07:36 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by Lanark Camper View Post
Obviously you have to be sure the polarity is correct, include a fuse.

In my case I'll switch the solar panel off before plugging in the power supply.

Then turn on the power supply and you should have a 30 Amp charger with a custom programmed profile for your make and model of battery bank. Provided you also bought the battery monitor that allows programming the 2030's charging profile.

Bob

Bob

Yes I do have the trimetric battery monitor and is set up with the correct profile for my agm battery. The roof panel also is wired in with no shut off so that would be on also. I do have a 30 amp fuse between solar controller and battery as Bogart recommended.
So as long as i add a fuse on between the new power supply and the solar input plug I be good to go?
attach sketch is my current wiring


The thing i am unsure of if the roof panel happens to be putting out 7 amps at the time i power up the DC power supply is it possible to create over load. 30 amps from power supply and 7 from solar panel? Or would the controller only draw the 23 from the power supply and the other 7 from the panel?
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Old 12-22-2019, 08:11 PM   #12
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current ratings ('amps') are maximums.

the solar charger will only draw what it can. if your external power supplies voltage is higher than the solar panel operating voltage then it will deliver most of the current, if the solar panel output voltage is higher than your external supply, then IT will supply as much current as it can when hts dragged down to the external supply voltage...

that said, I don't think this idea is very good. the solar charge controller assumes that a solar panel's voltage will drop when you pull more power off it than it can output, while an external DC supply will try and regulate the output voltage and if it goes past the current limit probably blow a fuse, and maybe pop its output transistors.
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Old 12-22-2019, 08:51 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by John in Santa Cruz View Post
current ratings ('amps') are maximums.

the solar charger will only draw what it can. if your external power supplies voltage is higher than the solar panel operating voltage then it will deliver most of the current, if the solar panel output voltage is higher than your external supply, then IT will supply as much current as it can when hts dragged down to the external supply voltage...

that said, I don't think this idea is very good. the solar charge controller assumes that a solar panel's voltage will drop when you pull more power off it than it can output, while an external DC supply will try and regulate the output voltage and if it goes past the current limit probably blow a fuse, and maybe pop its output transistors.
My solar setup has a switch between the solar controller and the panels. I could shut off the panels and feed the solar controller with just the power supply set to 15v and it should work fine.

The issue we are trying to get around is the crappy WFCO converter that hates to go to bulk mode when connected to a generator. Hooking a 14.4v power supply to the batteries would work as well but by using the solar controller in between, the solar controller acts as a safety net as the batteries approach 100% SOC to prevent damaging the batteries.

Keep in mind - this would not be a connect and leave situation. The only reason to do this would be that the battery SOC has gone down to 50%, the solar panels are not outputting enough to get the battery charge back, and you need to get a charge back in before nightfall.

If I was doing this, I would monitor the battery SOC and shut down the generator when the battery SOC was close to 90% and let solar take care of the rest.
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Old 12-23-2019, 06:07 AM   #14
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Bob

Yes I do have the trimetric battery monitor and is set up with the correct profile for my agm battery. The roof panel also is wired in with no shut off so that would be on also. I do have a 30 amp fuse between solar controller and battery as Bogart recommended.
So as long as i add a fuse on between the new power supply and the solar input plug I be good to go?
attach sketch is my current wiring


The thing i am unsure of if the roof panel happens to be putting out 7 amps at the time i power up the DC power supply is it possible to create over load. 30 amps from power supply and 7 from solar panel? Or would the controller only draw the 23 from the power supply and the other 7 from the panel?
As I mentioned previously I'll switch my panel off the 2030 input when I switch to a power supply connecting into the 2030 charger.

You should have a way to disconnect the panel as it needs to be disconnected from the 2030 whenever the trailers batteries are disconnected and the panels have an output.

One switch could be used to select solar panel or power supply. Of course in that case you would have to be sure the power supply was off when disconnecting the batteries.

Proper fuses need to be used as well.

Bob
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Old 12-23-2019, 07:24 AM   #15
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The issue we are trying to get around is the crappy WFCO converter that hates to go to bulk mode when connected to a generator. Hooking a 14.4v power supply to the batteries would work as well but by using the solar controller in between, the solar controller acts as a safety net as the batteries approach 100% SOC to prevent damaging the batteries.
.
You got it ! And it even hates to go into bulk when it's plugged in the wall. Remember the folks with dead batteries that had trouble fully charging them over night with a serviced camp site.

I think this is a much better solution for me than upgrading the converter board. This solution provides a better 4 stage programable battery charger at a fraction of the cost, as I already have a 2030 installed. It includes redundancy because the original converter is still in the trailer should the inexpensive power supply crap out.

I originally was looking at it as quicker way to charge the batteries with my generator. Now I'm thinking it's a better way to charge and maintain my batteries on the generator or when the trailer has shore power available.

My original converter is maintaining my batteries right now on float at 13.2 V, while Interstate suggests for best life they should be floated at 13.4 V. I'm not sure what difference .2 V makes, I guess Interstate thinks it does.

Normally the 2030 could be maintaining the batteries with solar but with a foot of snow on the panel I'm forced to use the converter.

I can't equalize them with the original converter, it's easily done with the 2030 charge controller. Equalizing should extend the battery life significantly by reducing sulfation in wet cells and some AGM's.

I just view the 2030 as a DC powered sophisticated battery charger. It does not care if the DC is coming from a solar panel or a 110v power supply. If the DC voltage is high enough for it to charge and equalize the batteries, and current supplied will meet the acceptance of the battery bank it will be able to charge the batteries as quickly as possible and keep them as healthy as possible.

Obviously it will work with a current limited device like a solar panel. It should work that much better with a 15V, 30 A power supply.

As illustrated in the video in a pinch the 2030 could be connected directly to an automobiles battery and will charge the battery bank with up to 30 A if the bank would accept it.

The vehicle supplying this current appeared to be a Honda Civic. So the current supply to the 2030 can have 100's of Amps available and it will just supply what the trailer battery will accept. The video showed a lithium battery but the battery chemistry is really irrelevant in this demonstration. The take away here is the 2030 will charge a battery at 30 Amps if the source can provide it and the battery will accept it.

Obviously the automobiles voltage has to be high enough. My truck (a Silverado) runs around 14 V most of the time. If I switch on tow mode it jumps up a bit. If I connected the 2030 to my battery the truck would supply whatever current the 2030 wanted to draw while the trucks voltage regulator maintained the 14 V system voltage.

Bob
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Old 12-23-2019, 07:32 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John in Santa Cruz View Post
current ratings ('amps') are maximums.

the solar charger will only draw what it can. if your external power supplies voltage is higher than the solar panel operating voltage then it will deliver most of the current, if the solar panel output voltage is higher than your external supply, then IT will supply as much current as it can when hts dragged down to the external supply voltage...

that said, I don't think this idea is very good. the solar charge controller assumes that a solar panel's voltage will drop when you pull more power off it than it can output, while an external DC supply will try and regulate the output voltage and if it goes past the current limit probably blow a fuse, and maybe pop its output transistors.
That's a good point on the power supply. I'm looking at a 50 A supply now. While it would be unusual for a 200 Ahr bank to draw more than 30 A it could happen. And I think with these inexpensive power supplies they probably will last much longer if the run way below their rated output. I think a fuse would protect the power supply from blowing its output transistors !

Thanks for pointing that out.
Bob
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