Tank capacities

[sherminator]

Below is a picture of one owner's gray tank outlet that broke. You can see that the bottom of pipe is above the bottom of the tank, and is also on the side. Between the tank bottom being bowed, and the opening being above the tank floor, there is always going to be some liquid in an "empty" tank.

[Ron in BC]

Yup, only took 61 posts for someone to nail it.

The gray tank drain is on the side of the tank. When the level reaches the top of the outlet drainage slows. After it reaches mid-point the rate approaches infinity. You can see that the bottom of the outlet is above the bottom of the tank.

The only way you can completely empty the tank is to make sure that the tank bottom is sloping towards the outlet. When our trailer is going to be stored for awhile we put leveling blocks down on the opposite side to tilt and completely drain the tank. We sometimes do that if the dumpsite area appears to slope away from the dump. Makes for much faster draining.

Ron

[GaryandEllen]

Originally Posted by Ron in BC

The only way you can completely empty the tank is to make sure that the tank bottom is sloping towards the outlet. When our trailer is going to be stored for awhile we put leveling blocks down on the opposite side to tilt and completely drain the tank.

Ron

We have used our Anderson leveler to go WAY up before draining. We are confident it is empty after doing this. After doing that, we STILL can only put in 21 gallons. Into our "28 gallon" tank. Have checked this more than once just to be sure we didn't lose count with the 3 gallon bucket we were using. Same every time. 21 gallons max.

[Dcboyd]

On my new 21C, the fresh water tank is not the same distance from the trailer bottom which indicates to me the tank has a built -in slope. On port side tank It’s 10 1/2” deep, on starboard side 9 1/2” deep. Tank is hard against bottom of trailer
So ETI has built in a 1” slope in tank to facilitate draining. Not sure about prior years.
Do not assume with new trailers everything stays status quo.

[Waywardcanuck]

Does anyone have a 19 without a black tank? Do you have a larger fresh and grey tank?

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by Waywardcanuck

Does anyone have a 19 without a black tank? Do you have a larger fresh and grey tank?

I don't, but since the black tank mounts on top of the floor and the fresh and grey tanks are under the floor, there's no reason for omitting the black tank to change the sizes of the other tanks.

Since the fresh and grey tanks are on opposite side of the axle (the fresh is behind, grey is ahead), either could be changed in size regardless of the other tank. There are limitations: examples might include available space, mounting provisions in the frame, what relative capacities would be useful, and the weight behind the axle of a full fresh water tank.

[tacchino]

Have been going back and forth with Escape on this issue. Have gotten a couple of acknowledgements of problems.

Grey tanks:

“I wanted to update you on some of the in-house testing we’ve been doing on the Escape 21 grey water system. I’ve attached some photos of another Escape 21 mid-build, just after the grey-tanks are installed to support our discussion. This is what the tank system looks like before spray foam insulation. Not pictured is a vent from the top of the grey tank to the roof of the trailer - you can see it inside your closet.

We measured the volume of the tank at 28.25 gal when uninstalled, laying on some blocking in the orientation it is installed in. This supports my conclusion based on measurements that the tank capacity is as the manufacturer states.

We also measured the system as installed, filling via the shower as you’ve described. We measured a capacity of 23.75 gal before the shower stopped draining. During this test, our tank level gauge read “full”. As pictured the topmost “full” sensor is right near the top of the tank, which indicated to me that it’s filling completely and it’s not a vapor lock/filling issue.

I believe the missing 4.5 gallons of capacity is due to the tank not draining completely, and some of the tank capacity being lost to standing grey water in the bottom of the system. Unfortunately, we aren’t able to move the dump fitting location any further downwards on the tank. From the photos you can see the tank belly sags slightly from the ~230lbs of water that fills it, which makes draining difficult.

Note that this doesn't match my measurements or others that I've seen in this thread. We only measured 20 gallons of capacity on grey, a 27% reduction. Leaving the difference in measurements aside it seems at a minimum that the tank is not being installed with enough support across the middle.

Black:

We appreciate your patience as the engineer’s have tested each tank, after further review we have confirmed you are correct and have since corrected the tank sizes on the website. The tank sizes were unfortunately copied from the classic Escape brochures without double checking the sizes. With that said these tanks have been made specifically for Escape Trailer and there are no larger sizes that will fit the trailer.

So the black tank is not as large as advertised to me or anyone else who has purchased a 21NE. Instead of the 22 gallon tank that we were sold we received a 13.2 gallon tank, a 40% reduction. Their resolution is to update the website and to say there are no other options available. No communication to existing owners, no apology to this owner and no fix or restitution of any kind.

[7Gentex]

Literally.......

13.2 gallons for black on a 21NE or a 19 won't work for me (deposit holder)

Anyone know the actual black tank capacity of a new 5.0 ?

[Centex]

Originally Posted by tacchino

... no fix or restitution of any kind.

Just curious, what would you suggest as appropriate "fix or restitution"?

Not sure when it occurred, but yep, there's been revision to the published specs sometime between last September and today:

[davidmurphy02]

Originally Posted by 7Gentex

Literally.......

13.2 gallons for black on a 21NE or a 19 won't work for me (deposit holder)

Anyone know the actual black tank capacity of a new 5.0 ?

Have never measured any of our tanks to see what their actual capacity is....and no matter what the capacity it seems like we would always want a bigger gray tank. But the black tank on our 5.0 has exceeded our expectations, we have been able to go much longer than expected. Since it sits on the floor and is boxed in plywood there's no deforming as it fills, and in the 5.0 the exit connection is on the bottom rather than the side so when you dump it really does empty out (assuming you're not tilted to the passenger side) so I am inclined to believe it is close to the stated 30 gallon capacity.

[Iowa Dave]

Well I guess as a second owner of two Escapes (a 19 and a 21) I really never checked the capacities on and probably suspected less than what I thought they held but it really never affected my enjoyment of the trailer. Having the conveniences and dependability we’ve experienced with the Escapes has been great and in this case I’m happy to say “ it is what it is.” And camp on. After many years of less convenient camping I consider that there’s some work or chores involved with camping that include at times , decanting grey water or lugging a couple fives of fresh water. The only negative that I have with that is that my kids are grown and gone and I don’t have a couple young Boy Scouts to do my bidding..
Iowa Dave

[tacchino]

Just curious, what would you suggest as appropriate "fix or restitution"?

It's a good question and honestly I don't know. I do know that just telling your customer to whom you sold a product that is not close to what is advertised, that yeah, too bad, there aren't any larger tanks we can fit so suck it up is not an acceptable solution. Go beyond that to the fact that they just in the background update the website without notifying customers of the error, that's just dishonest.

[tacchino]

To those that are posting about how you are happy with your tanks and what you have is good enough, that's great, but entirely beside the point. For one, you can probably assume that you have tanks that hold the capacity that is advertised. If that's the case, you certainly have more than 13 gallons of black available (unless you are in a 17B)

The point here is that Escape advertised one thing and sold another. That's not OK no matter if it's an honest mistake (negligent) or intentional.

[7Gentex]

Originally Posted by davidmurphy02

Have never measured any of our tanks to see what their actual capacity is....and no matter what the capacity it seems like we would always want a bigger gray tank. But the black tank on our 5.0 has exceeded our expectations, we have been able to go much longer than expected. Since it sits on the floor and is boxed in plywood there's no deforming as it fills, and in the 5.0 the exit connection is on the bottom rather than the side so when you dump it really does empty out (assuming you're not tilted to the passenger side) so I am inclined to believe it is close to the stated 30 gallon capacity.

Thanks - agree on gray - but at least I could shower right outside......
Black tank activities.....not so much


My last trailer had a custom 40 gallon black/gray single tank - a 20ish black on a 21NE would have been a stretch.........but a 13.2 - no way.


The stairs to the bed on the 5.0 is likely a no-go for the wife.......


Wonder what the 23 will have in store................?

[Effie]

That explains why my black tank indicator shows half full after just few days, always thought it is the inaccurate level measuring system. All tanks on these trailers are on the small size in the industry, and frankly if I wanted to shower outside or use campground facilities (when available) I would have chosen a different camping method.
There are endless discussions on how large/expensive/complex the electrical system needs to be for off-grid camping, but the number one limit is the fresh and waste water systems. Of course, I'll be the first to admit that volts, amps & watts are a lot sexier than the black tank.
Escape is offering solar system for many years now, and recently started offering lithium batteries, why offer these options? Yes they make a few extra bucks but there is demand for these systems, I just wish there was more demand for larger tanks.

[Centex]

Just for the sake of discussion, (no, none of this goes to a 'fix' for current trailers) ...

• The 5.0 toilet abuts an elevated wardrobe (and exterior storage cubby), allowing the black tank to extend beyond the bath wall under the wardrobe footprint, yielding relatively generous capacity
• The 21C toilet sidewall abuts the bed platform, allowing the black tank to extend under there (and it might be extended farther for capacity approaching that of the 5.0?)
• The 17B, 19, and 21NE toilets all abut a seating bench; do any of those have a black tank that extends under that seating bench?

On paper at least it looks like the latter three models could accommodate larger black tanks without 'significant*' redesign, albeit at the cost of space under the adjacent bench (and perhaps some re-arrangement of equipment located there)? Just fantasizing / speculating.

* "significant" admittedly being a subjective term here, and admitting that there may be other implications (weight distribution, etc)

I'll also admit that IMO the three recently adjusted 13(.2!) gallon black tank capacity specs do look a bit slim on paper and could affect buying decisions for some potential consumers in spite of the other advantages unique to Escape trailers (answering my own question posed much earlier in this thread: Would this knowledge affect your buying decision?).

And yeah, the decimal-precision of that particular recently adjusted capacity spec does belie a bit of discomfiting potential gaming with regard to the other tank specs, particularly in light of several owner tests posted here (and IMO that's disheartening no matter what others in the industry do in their marketing materials ).

[gbaglo]

Originally Posted by Centex

• The 17B, 19, and 21NE toilets all abut a seating bench; do any of those have a black tank that extends under that seating bench?

On paper at least it looks like the latter three models could accommodate larger black tanks without 'significant*' redesign, albeit at the cost of space under the adjacent bench (and perhaps some re-arrangement of equipment located there)? Just fantasizing / speculating.

On my 17B classic, the black tank does extend into the space under the driver-side front dinette bench. It could go even further, but where would my wife store her camping table cloths?

And, how well would it drain?

[tacchino]

Originally Posted by Centex

[*]The 17B, 19, and 21NE toilets all abut a seating bench; do any of those have a black tank that extends under that seating bench?

Yeah, it does on the 21NE as well. An extension would mean blocking the side access door

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by Centex

• The 17B, 19, and 21NE toilets all abut a seating bench; do any of those have a black tank that extends under that seating bench?

Yes, the area under the toilet within the bathroom is too small for a useful black tank, so all of the black tanks extend under adjacent areas that way... at least in the 17B and 19.

[brroberts]

The ETI run forum still lists tanks sizes in disagreement with their website:

Escape 17
Black tank – 19 gallon
Gray tank – 26 gallon
Fresh tank – 20 gallon
Escape 19
Black tank – 19 gallon
Gray tank – 28 gallon
Fresh tank – 28 gallon
Escape 21C & 21NE
Black tank – 22 gallon
Gray tank – 28 gallon
Fresh tank – 28 gallon
Escape 5.0
Black tank – 30 gallon
Gray tank – 28 gallon
Fresh tank – 28 gallon