Tank Sensors, Horst vs. the See Level II system

[Patandlinda]

Originally Posted by SFDavis50

Sorry. I quoted you because I agree with what you said. I meant no criticism.

Most of my tent camping has me looking for somewhere to go to get a shower in the evening and most of the commercial campgrounds which have paid showers were marginal. When the kids were smaller we went to swimming pools in the evening, Estes Park YMCA, the town pool and Snow Mountain Ranch YMCA. Or we camped near Steamboat Springs, Pagosa Springs, Ouray Hot Springs and Hot Springs South Dakota.

I have stood in many showers with blocked drains. My biggest reason for buying an Escape trailer is for the bathroom and bed so I plan to frequently fill up the Grey tank, and others.
I'm also trying to generate interest among the people who currently have Escape trailers on order so that I am not the only kook asking for a completely different kind of tank monitor system.

Since I have my first and probably last trailer (5.0 TA) on order I have been obsessively looking into the systems I'll be using.

No problem . Pat

[freespirit]

Originally Posted by SFDavis50

If I want to stand in nasty water while taking a shower I can just use the shower at some of the lower cost RV parks I have used when the campgrounds were full.

I started this thread because the SeeLeveL II 709 P3 Tank Monitoring System seems like a much better tank monitoring system for me as a new buyer of an Escape 5.0 TA due next July/August (2017).

The cost seems reasonable at $239.00 (Canadian or US, I don't really know) and much cheaper at Amazon.com.
Sticking the sensor strips to the tanks is far simpler than drilling 4 holes in three tanks, inserting probes and making sure there aren't any leaks.
Fewer wires dangling from the tanks, instructions to coat the sensor strips and wires on the exterior tanks with rubberized (3M) rock guard type undercoating, (which I would consider doing on existing dangling wires.)
It also includes the pump switch, so as far as I can tell, the product is simpler to install and far more functional and useful.
Also, it monitors the signal strength of the sensors and gives a readout, so if you have a baseline reading from a clean tank you can spot a buildup of gunk (Struvite) on the tank walls and clean it before it becomes a problem.

there was a thread in the past about someone who installed the Sealevel..it looked easy except for the black tank. Access to the black tank on the 19 looked difficult at least where the current sensors are located behind plywood, etc.
Not sure about the black tank access on other trailers.

[freespirit]

Originally Posted by SFDavis50

My biggest reason for buying an Escape trailer is for the bathroom and bed so I plan to frequently fill up the Grey tank, and others.
I'm also trying to generate interest among the people who currently have Escape trailers on order so that I am not the only kook asking for a completely different kind of tank monitor system.

Since I have my first and probably last trailer (5.0 TA) on order I have been obsessively looking into the systems I'll be using.

feel pretty much the same way, especially that last part. Unfortunately the more research you do, you may come to the same conclusion as this rv trailer newbie did...with the exception of a few mfgs and depending on how much you want to spend...rv trailer mfg and some of the equipment used in them seems pretty marginal.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by freespirit

there was a thread in the past about someone who installed the Sealevel..it looked easy except for the black tank. Access to the black tank on the 19 looked difficult at least where the current sensors are located behind plywood, etc.
Not sure about the black tank access on other trailers.

That was Hugh's installation, as he posted earlier:

Originally Posted by currinh

I installed a SeeLevel system to our 19. A blow by blow discussion is here.

It's works well and I'd recommend the product. Much better resolution than the stock unit, and reliable. I didn't hook up the LP monitoring, the switching regulator is fine for us.

Let me know if I can answer any questions.

Hugh explained all of the access issues and solutions for his trailer in the earlier discussion which he linked.

[paulk]

I asked ETI about this a few weeks back. ETI is still not installing SeeLevel systems. The SeeLevel system has its own monitor and ETI wants to use their monitor since their monitor also has switches for the pump and water heater. I was always kind of on the fence regarding the entire thing anyway because if you go with SeeLevel you're locked into their system for both the sensors and the monitor and if anything fails in 5-10 years, you'd need to obtain their specific parts, assuming this boutique company is still in business.

Also, I'm getting the undercarriage foam insulation, so I'd prefer simple wires underneath the foam rather that more complicated computer controlled radio based sensors. I'm going with the Horst probes despite the loss in accuracy.

My plan for getting the sensor on the black tank prior to deciding on the Horst probes was to ask Reece if I could visit ETI before my build and stick a sensor on a black tank myself. If you're able to do that, and ETI agrees, it might save a lot of hassle later on.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by paulk

I asked ETI about this a few weeks back. ETI is still not installing SeeLevel systems. The SeeLevel system has its own monitor and ETI wants to use their monitor since their monitor also has switches for the pump and water heater.

This is the normal case in RVs, so the SeeLevel panels are available with pump and/or heater switches: any model with "P" in the letters at the end has a switch for the pump, any model with "H" in the letters at the end has a switch for the heater. While there is no technical problem using the SeeLevel's switches instead of the standard panel's switches, I do understand not wanting to change standard components; this system would be best if worked out as an OEM installation with Escape and Garnet working together.

Originally Posted by paulk

I was always kind of on the fence regarding the entire thing anyway because if you go with SeeLevel you're locked into their system for both the sensors and the monitor and if anything fails in 5-10 years, you'd need to obtain their specific parts, assuming this boutique company is still in business.

That's a valid concern, but between Escape Trailer Industries and Garnet Industries, Escape is more of a "boutique" manufacturer, with a narrower market. Garnet has been around about twice as long as Escape... but I wouldn't hesitate to buy from either of them.

Since the wires between the tank locations and the monitor location are the same with either type of system, in the worst case one could just rip out the SeeLevel stuff and put in traditional probes and panel.

Originally Posted by paulk

Also, I'm getting the undercarriage foam insulation, so I'd prefer simple wires underneath the foam rather that more complicated computer controlled radio based sensors. I'm going with the Horst probes despite the loss in accuracy.

This makes sense to me. My main issue with the underfloor foam is access to all of the components, electronic and otherwise.

Originally Posted by paulk

My plan for getting the sensor on the black tank prior to deciding on the Horst probes was to ask Reece if I could visit ETI before my build and stick a sensor on a black tank myself. If you're able to do that, and ETI agrees, it might save a lot of hassle later on.

This would work, but would mean keeping the black tank aside as a special for your unit. That might be okay - it couldn't hurt to ask. The same could be done with the other tanks, to reduce issues with access due to the foam.

[float5]

Originally Posted by SFDavis50

Has anyone had any success using the See Level II Tank Monitoring System on their Escape tanks? It is made by a Canadian Company, Garnet Industries and doesn't use probes in the tank. Looks like a much more simple installation and wiring and they have a model which also monitors two LP tanks. Looks like it could be a direct replacement for the system Escape uses. I am very interested in this as it will eliminate the probes (and holes) in the tanks and from reading several other threads, the tank probes seem like they don't work very well.

See Level II, Garnet Industries

From the complaints about the different monitors available, you may be paying for something else and not get any better than what Escape has already. Many people are into every kind of gadget and they want what they figure is a better monitor. As "Seventy Degrees" does and says, we don't use the monitor much. I could say that if you camp very little, you don't really need to worry about a monitor not always being right, but some people expect it to be right all of the time. If you don't spend the extra for another monitor and it is a big interest to you to have correct readings all of the time, then you will wish you had spent the money. And if you spend it and then you know that the monitor is not always correct, you will have done what you could.

We have been in our two Escapes for over a year's worth and I would say that I don't usually use the monitor. That is because I know where the tanks are. Sometimes I check to see if the monitor is right! Once in a while it is wrong but we almost always know when that is, so no big deal. Then it gets straightened out in not long.

Since you are apparently convinced that another product will be better, then that is probably money you should spend! But you learn where your tanks are and then you don't even use it. That is what some of us have found anyway. I remind myself once in a while to look at the monitor out of curiosity.

[escape artist]

Originally Posted by float5

From the complaints about the different monitors available, you may be paying for something else and not get any better than what Escape has already. Many people are into every kind of gadget and they want what they figure is a better monitor. As "Seventy Degrees" does and says, we don't use the monitor much. I could say that if you camp very little, you don't really need to worry about a monitor not always being right, but some people expect it to be right all of the time. If you don't spend the extra for another monitor and it is a big interest to you to have correct readings all of the time, then you will wish you had spent the money. And if you spend it and then you know that the monitor is not always correct, you will have done what you could.

We have been in our two Escapes for over a year's worth and I would say that I don't usually use the monitor. That is because I know where the tanks are. Sometimes I check to see if the monitor is right! Once in a while it is wrong but we almost always know when that is, so no big deal. Then it gets straightened out in not long.

Since you are apparently convinced that another product will be better, then that is probably money you should spend! But you learn where your tanks are and then you don't even use it. That is what some of us have found anyway. I remind myself once in a while to look at the monitor out of curiosity.

Hi: float5... TANKS!!! Alf
escape artist N.S. of Lake Erie

[float5]

Originally Posted by escape artist

Hi: float5... TANKS!!! Alf
escape artist N.S. of Lake Erie

You always crack me up, Alf!! Have a great rally.

Wish we could be there. Some year.

[escape artist]

Originally Posted by float5

You always crack me up, Alf!! Have a great rally.

Hi: float5... TANKS again!!! Alf
escape artist N.S. of Lake Erie

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by float5

From the complaints about the different monitors available, you may be paying for something else and not get any better than what Escape has already. Many people are into every kind of gadget and they want what they figure is a better monitor.

I think about the only certain thing is that a SeeLevel system will provide a better indication of tank level. This isn't a random experiment or unproven gadget; it's a fundamentally more effective - but more complex and expensive - alternative.

I don't think RV manufacturers such as Escape use the simple probes because there is any question that systems such as SeeLevel are better; they use the simple probes and corresponding panels because they are the best value for typical customers.

There are other industrial level measurement technologies, too, but the SeeLevel design seems best suited to the application.

[float5]

Originally Posted by Brian B-P

I think about the only certain thing is that a SeeLevel system will provide a better indication of tank level. This isn't a random experiment or unproven gadget; it's a fundamentally more effective - but more complex and expensive - alternative.

I don't think RV manufacturers such as Escape use the simple probes because there is any question that systems such as SeeLevel are better; they use the simple probes and corresponding panels because they are the best value for typical customers.

There are other industrial level measurement technologies, too, but the SeeLevel design seems best suited to the application.

I will take your statement that they work better. What some of us are saying is that we have so little problem or no problem so that we don't see the point. But perhaps they would seem to help someone else. If it is important to you, by all means, get it. It will be money well spent then. Everyone has their interests. I wanted a number of things in the trailer that I know you guys don't want!

[LeonW]

For what it is worth we have had the Horst probes for 2 years and almost 200 nights now. They are working fine, and we have never had false readings. This is in contrast to the conventional probes on our 17 where we sometimes had to rinse the gray tanks to restore accurate readings.

I agree with those who have said there are ways to determine tank levels if the sensors aren't working. But if i have sensors, I would like them to to be accurate

[rbryan4]

Originally Posted by LeonW

For what it is worth we have had the Horst probes for 2 years and almost 200 nights now. They are working fine, and we have never had false readings. This is in contrast to the conventional probes on our 17 where we sometimes had to rinse the gray tanks to restore accurate readings.

I agree with those who have said there are ways to determine tank levels if the sensors aren't working. But if i have sensors, I would like them to to be accurate

Agree. The Horst probes work well.

[Losangeles]

Originally Posted by LeonW

For what it is worth we have had the Horst probes for 2 years and almost 200 nights now. They are working fine, and we have never had false readings. This is in contrast to the conventional probes on our 17 where we sometimes had to rinse the gray tanks to restore accurate readings.

I agree with those who have said there are ways to determine tank levels if the sensors aren't working. But if i have sensors, I would like them to to be accurate

Really glad to hear this. I went to the effort to get Horst mailed to ETI

and

In our Casita the only way to really know grey level was when it came up the shower drain

So knowing ANY level information of the grey will be a luxury!

:-)

[Patandlinda]

Originally Posted by Brian B-P

I think about the only certain thing is that a SeeLevel system will provide a better indication of tank level. This isn't a random experiment or unproven gadget; it's a fundamentally more effective - but more complex and expensive - alternative.

I don't think RV manufacturers such as Escape use the simple probes because there is any question that systems such as SeeLevel are better; they use the simple probes and corresponding panels because they are the best value for typical customers.

There are other industrial level measurement technologies, too, but the SeeLevel design seems best suited to the application.

We installed the Sea Level sensors by garnet , on our previous motorhome and we were very happy with their system . Very easy install . Loved the fact installed on exterior of tanks . Of course didn't have spray foam . They were very accurate . Pat