water system questions

[Jim Bennett]

Originally Posted by jmcrv2017

Question about disconnect switch of battery. Next to the switch, it says: always put disconnect switch in On position unless it is in storage. If this is the case, should it be called connect switch (means connect to trailer)? When the switch is on, I can hear a buzz current noise. When it is off, no sound. So now, when charge my trailer, I still need to put disconnect switch at "On" since it is not in storage, right?

Any switch in the "ON" position provides continuity in the circuit, "OFF" disconnects the circuit not allowing continuity. This is the same as any light switch in the house which connects or disconnects the lights to the circuit.

Working in the power industry for many years, they did use the terms "OPEN" and "CLOSED" instead of "OFF" and "ON".

[rbryan4]

Originally Posted by Jim Bennett

Working in the power industry for many years, they did use the terms "OPEN" and "CLOSED" instead of "OFF" and "ON".

It's very similar in IT, where we use binary. A zero is a false or open, and a 1 is a true or a closed.

[jmcrv2017]

Originally Posted by alanmalk

Some answers embedded inside the quote below:





--
Alan

Originally Posted by Jim Bennett

Any switch in the "ON" position provides continuity in the circuit, "OFF" disconnects the circuit not allowing continuity. This is the same as any light switch in the house which connects or disconnects the lights to the circuit.

Working in the power industry for many years, they did use the terms "OPEN" and "CLOSED" instead of "OFF" and "ON".

I have no problem with "On" or "Off" But the name of the switch is "Disconnect", which is the confusing part. If you turn on a switch for disconnecting, don't you think it disconnects the battery? Actually one of reply says "do NOT put disconnect switch at On", I am sure he meant do not disconnect battery, which means put that switch at On

[rbryan4]

Originally Posted by jmcrv2017

I have no problem with "On" or "Off" [emoji23] But the name of the switch is "Disconnect", which is the confusing part. If you turn on a switch for disconnecting, don't you think it disconnects the battery? Actually one of reply says "do NOT put disconnect switch at On", I am sure he meant do not disconnect battery, which means put that switch at On [emoji23]

I've always known it as a battery selector switch, if that helps. The battery is either connected (on) or disconnected (off).

[John in Santa Cruz]

Originally Posted by alanmalk

Fairly simple calculation...

2-6 volt batteries have (roughly) 210 amp-hour capacity. The built-in AC charger (aka "converter") can supply 30 amps. 210 amp-hours / 30 amp = 7-hours. "Roughly..." There are always some losses in each part - don't worry about them.

--
Alan

nowhere near that simple. charge rate is quite non-linear... batteries convert some of the power in to heat when charging so power in does not equal power out.

I'd estimate about 24 hours for a full charge cycle from completely discharged.


also, you should check the cells. wear gloves and eye protection, and remove the triple plugs from each battery... each cell should have acid levels above the plates, but below the 'ring' at the bottom edge of the tube. use only distilled water if any are below the top of the plates. I would do this BEFORE plugging it in and starting the charge cycle..

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by John in Santa Cruz

charge rate is quite non-linear... batteries convert some of the power in to heat when charging so power in does not equal power out.

True, but charge (product of current and time) is much closer to equaling charge out, so doing this calculations in current (not power) approximately works (within perhaps 10%, at least until perhaps 80% charged).

The energy loss is demonstrated by both the charge inefficiency and the difference between the voltage needed to push current into the battery when charging, and the voltage produced by the battery when discharging. The voltage difference is presumably due mostly to internal resistance (so energy is obviously dissipated as heat), but also due to polarization of the electrolyte.

[alanmalk]

Originally Posted by jmcrv2017

...
I don't think the battery is full for 10 mins charge. Is it because the power is plugged in?

Thanks,
Jing

Correct. All 4 battery lights will turn on when the charger is in operation. And yes, it takes a lot longer than 10 minutes to charge the batteries.

What is happening? The charger is supplying full voltage to the system, fooling the simple 4 light sensor.

A more correct way to measure the state of battery charge is to let the battery "rest" for an hour or more before trying to measure the voltage. "Resting" means no charge and no discharge (ignoring the ever-present propane sensor). After the hour rest, push the sensor button and you will see a very approximate state of charge.

If you want something better than "very approximate", use a inexpensive multi-meter right at the battery terminals. Then consult a standard voltage VS state of charge table.

Don't want to open the battery case every time you want to know the state of charge? Use a meter that plugs into a cigarette lighter jack. Here is one I spotted on Amazon with fairly good reviews (I have no personal experience with it.)
https://www.amazon.com/INNOVA-3721-B...+voltage+meter

The numbers, not the bar graph, are what you really need. A quick Google search will bring up a table of voltage - charge.

--
Alan

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by John in Santa Cruz

also, you should check the cells. wear gloves and eye protection, and remove the triple plugs from each battery... each cell should have acid levels above the plates, but below the 'ring' at the bottom edge of the tube. use only distilled water if any are below the top of the plates. I would do this BEFORE plugging it in and starting the charge cycle..

Sure, but before charging only add water as necessary to ensure that the plates are covered - don't bring the level up to the ring. As the battery charges the electrolyte will expand; then, after charging, the level can be corrected if necessary. Trying to get the level right in a discharged battery will likely result in over-filling.

[alanmalk]

Originally Posted by John in Santa Cruz

nowhere near that simple. charge rate is quite non-linear... batteries convert some of the power in to heat when charging so power in does not equal power out.

I'd estimate about 24 hours for a full charge cycle from completely discharged.

All very true - but the poor poster just wanted to know if he killed his brand new batteries in just a few weeks. A 7 hour charge will answer that question with no ambiguity - assuming he doesn't depend on the simple 4 element bar graph that comes with the trailer.

Next year he can add an Amp-Hour Watt meter and watch every electron going in and out.

Or get some solar and not worry about it at all (my approach).

--
Alan

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by alanmalk

What is happening? The charger is supplying full voltage to the system, fooling the simple 4 light sensor.

A more correct way to measure the state of battery charge is to let the battery "rest" for an hour or more before trying to measure the voltage. "Resting" means no charge and no discharge (ignoring the ever-present propane sensor)...

Yes, and "no charge" means that the converter/charger is not on. That means that the trailer must be unplugged or the switch used to disconnect/isolate/store the battery, and that the solar system (if you have one) is not working. With the switch in the disconnected/isolated/storage position, the meter panel won't be active (or any of the accessory sockets), so the practical way to stop the converter/charger from charging is to unplug the trailer or turn of the circuit breaker labeled "converter" (or the main circuit breaker).

[Ian and Sue]

Originally Posted by alanmalk

All very true - but the poor poster just wanted to know if he killed his brand new batteries in just a few weeks. A 7 hour charge will answer that question with no ambiguity - assuming he doesn't depend on the simple 4 element bar graph that comes with the trailer.

Next year he can add an Amp-Hour Watt meter and watch every electron going in and out.

Or get some solar and not worry about it at all (my approach).

--
Alan

AMEN! The poor poster just wanted a simple answer not a course in electricity! No wonder it is so hard to search this forum for real info!

[jmcrv2017]

Originally Posted by alanmalk

All very true - but the poor poster just wanted to know if he killed his brand new batteries in just a few weeks. A 7 hour charge will answer that question with no ambiguity - assuming he doesn't depend on the simple 4 element bar graph that comes with the trailer.

Next year he can add an Amp-Hour Watt meter and watch every electron going in and out.

Or get some solar and not worry about it at all (my approach).

--
Alan

That is right, I am going to get a solar and forget about it :-) I totally like this idea. I wonder why at the moment when we order Escape all the sudden I decided not to have the Solar panel option - maybe because we had too many options ordered including a wireless backup camera?

[Jim Bennett]

Originally Posted by Ian and Sue

AMEN! The poor poster just wanted a simple answer not a course in electricity! No wonder it is so hard to search this forum for real info!

As well, I have heard from many who are hesitant to post questions due to the answers coming back too technical for them to fully understand.

[jmcrv2017]

Thank everyone's reply! Some answers short and easy, some answers I need more time and experience to digest... I like all of them! Knowledge is power!!

Update for our trailer: We had our very first RV trip to Pillar Point RV Park at Half Moon Bay last Saturday. Very popular place here... one hour drive from home plus one hour traffic. Been there many times, well, without the trailer. Our first trip with our trailer was nice and safe... with a little nervous of course. Battery is full :-) our water pressure regular somehow didn't work (the reading was always 0. Maybe it is a defect one?) Someone suggested just use it, don't turn the faucet all the way but I didn't want to take chance. so I ended up to fill water into fresh tank and using water pump. Worked great. Refrigerator was working good with AC, fan was great, most LED lights on except those on the top ceiling (need to find out why). Toilet is great - my son loves it :-)). It was very warm at night. Overall is nice we all love our trailer. I didn't use anything which need propane since our propane tank is empty. Don't have enough time to figure that out yet. Next time will try more features... well, maybe a place quieter too:-)

[CADreamin]

most LED lights on except those on the top ceiling

Did you turn on the switch by the door? Can't tell you how many time when we first had our trailer that we would turn on the overhead light and nothing happened ... until we remembered we had a switch by the door which also controlled the overhead lights.

[Tam2004]

Nice thing about the new Escape's - there is a switch to turn the battery connection off inside under the table. Nice feature, though we don't need it as we can keep it plugged in.

[Donna D.]

Originally Posted by Tam2004

Nice thing about the new Escape's - there is a switch to turn the battery connection off inside under the table. Nice feature, though we don't need it as we can keep it plugged in.

I don't know how new is new, but my 2014 has that feature.

[sclifrickson]

Originally Posted by Donna D.

I don't know how new is new, but my 2014 has that feature.

Our 2010 had the battery isolator switch, so they’ve certainly been around for awhile. I still wish they came with a guard to prevent accidental switching off [emoji849] Another opportunity for owner customization and enhanced pride of ownership, I suppose [emoji6]

[caddoster]

Originally Posted by CADreamin

most LED lights on except those on the top ceiling

Did you turn on the switch by the door? Can't tell you how many time when we first had our trailer that we would turn on the overhead light and nothing happened ... until we remembered we had a switch by the door which also controlled the overhead lights.

That's my guess too.. since the OP did not have the trailer orientation in person and the orientation video doesn't talk about "that" switch. But it would only be for the light in the hall (one).. the ones over bed and over dinette are controlled by their own switch.



The one next to it is the outside light, for what's worth.

[bdornbush]

Originally Posted by sclifrickson

Another opportunity for owner customization and enhanced pride of ownership, I suppose

I taped a plastic box from some purchase over the switch and it's a free mod to protect the switch.