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Old 10-28-2020, 09:29 AM   #21
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Mmmmmmm.... (I know I promised I would butt out of this thread, but .... pie)
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Old 10-28-2020, 10:04 AM   #22
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Mmmmmmm.... (I know I promised I would butt out of this thread, but .... pie)
Hi: camp4528... Pie R sqd.? Alf
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Old 10-28-2020, 12:46 PM   #23
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There may be some pie in the sky here, I don't know. Electrical pie. Another cold night and had the furnace, with its fan, set to 44 degrees F all night. No other appliances on. Last voltage reading late yesterday of the Battleborn was13.3 volts. Today, 11 am, checked and voltage is 14.8 volts !?! Highest ever. Only charging of it is through shore power and the old original WFCO charger... which I am planning to upgrade.
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Old 10-28-2020, 12:52 PM   #24
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Is your controller set for a float charge every 28 days? Maybe you happened to look just after it was done with it’s monthly cycle?
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Old 10-28-2020, 01:38 PM   #25
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Have no idea... monthly cycles? Whatever the factory install settings are, that's what is. Never touch the thing, except when a 20 amp fuse is blown.
Expecting delivery today of the WFCO upgrade charger/controller, which will be interesting.
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Old 10-28-2020, 01:47 PM   #26
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As long as we're off topic and talking pie, I seem to recall Jon having lost one of his pie pans, did he ever find it or am I wrong?

Myron I don't think Alf knew you'd slipped on the ice, but you did say you were under the dinette, no doubt on your knees, or perhaps lying down. Glad you got things sorted. Best of luck with installing the new charger/controller.
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Old 10-28-2020, 02:32 PM   #27
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As long as we're off topic and talking pie, I seem to recall Jon having lost one of his pie pans, did he ever find it or am I wrong?
At least we're not talking poutine.

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Old 10-28-2020, 03:46 PM   #28
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At least we're not talking poutine.

Ron
Not yet....but I bet it's not far off
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Old 10-28-2020, 03:48 PM   #29
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At least we're not talking poutine.

Ron
Hi: Ron in BC... "Now you're talking"!!! Alf
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Old 10-28-2020, 03:55 PM   #30
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As long as we're off topic and talking pie, I seem to recall Jon having lost one of his pie pans, did he ever find it or am I wrong?

Myron I don't think Alf knew you'd slipped on the ice, but you did say you were under the dinette, no doubt on your knees, or perhaps lying down. Glad you got things sorted. Best of luck with installing the new charger/controller.
I found the one at Quartzsite, but lost another one at Green Eggs & Ham. That one never came back, and although I did replace it with another stainless steel one; not as nice as the original...

As to the WFCO converter, it is possible that the high demand of a lithium battery might convince it to go into the bulk stage, which is 14.4V. With my lead acid batteries it never did - either absorption at 13.6V or float at 13.2V, and never more that 10 amps or so. That might be because my lead acid batteries rarely got below 75% (due to solar).

I never ran the WFCO with the lithium batteries since I switched to a 35 amp Progressive Dynamics lithium converter bottom at the same time I changed batteries. Since lithium batteries will suck everything a converter can produce up to around 98% full, your battery may be hitting the converter hard enough to force it into bulk.

You do want to get the Battleborn battery up to 14.6V for at least 1/2 an hour every couple of recharges so that the BMS can balance the individual cells.
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Old 10-28-2020, 04:01 PM   #31
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As long as we're off topic and talking pie, I seem to recall Jon having lost one of his pie pans, did he ever find it or am I wrong?

Myron I don't think Alf knew you'd slipped on the ice, but you did say you were under the dinette, no doubt on your knees, or perhaps lying down. Glad you got things sorted. Best of luck with installing the new charger/controller.
Hi: emers382... With this "Pan Dem ic" life has slowed to a crawl. It's been so long since our crawlover days I forget what we did!!! Alf
escape artist N.S. of Lake Erie
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Old 10-28-2020, 07:25 PM   #32
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Expecting delivery today of the WFCO upgrade charger/controller, which will be interesting.
Myron: It’s not hard. Follow my lead...
https://www.escapeforum.org/forums/f...tml#post237217
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Old 10-29-2020, 03:02 PM   #33
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WFCO in my 7 year old 19 needed an upgrade. It’s charger/converter won’t serve my new 100W Battleborn lithium battery. The replacement, a PowerMax PM3-55-MBA-LK (eBay $140), came yesterday. Agreed, Rubicon, should be an easy swap. Basically, five wires and done. I got that.

But – (“there’s always a but”) …. the one I got looks more different from yours, Rubico. Also, in reading the paperwork that came with mine, nothing is said about that pigtail black wire. See pix question mark. Assume it must be for a remote display, right? Since that’s a live wire I better wire nut and tape it just to be safe. No remote was included in the box.

Bigger question for me is dealing with switch A and switch B, seen in pix. That language got me totally confused. I will just quote it all here and hope you engineers provide a layman’s interpretation or, better, what to do.

And I quote:
“Adjust fixed voltage description:
“…The unit is on the three stage charging mode firstly. 1. Move the switch A to right, move switch B gently to adjust voltage from 13 - 16.sv, and get a fixed output voltage. 2. Make sure the voltage as 14.6v, move the switch A to left, then the unit back to standard “Three Stage Charging”, run 14.6V almost 0.5 hour, 13.6V almost 12 hours and then to 13.2V. The voltage value of 3 stage charging will be changed with fixed voltage changed when the unit on “Three stage charging” mode.”
What do I do with all that?? Very nervous about touching them miserable, tiny weird switches.
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Old 10-29-2020, 03:24 PM   #34
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... The replacement, a PowerMax PM3-55-MBA-LK (eBay $140), came yesterday. Agreed, Rubicon, should be an easy swap. Basically, five wires and done. I got that.

But – (“there’s always a but”) …. the one I got looks more different from yours, Rubico. Also, in reading the paperwork that came with mine, nothing is said about that pigtail black wire. See pix question mark. Assume it must be for a remote display, right? Since that’s a live wire I better wire nut and tape it just to be safe. No remote was included in the box.
Based only on the photo, I would back slowly away and turn off all power sources... then read the documentation to see how it is supposed to be wired. The idea of an extra wire not mentioned in the installation manual is absolutely scary. From the photo, it's not even clear which wires are coming from the PowerMax converter and which are coming from the WFCO power centre. Wire insulation colours mean nothing without corresponding documentation, and no assumption is safe.

Reading the PowerMax PM3-MBA installation manual, the labels on the photo generally make sense.

If the black wire with extra pigtail is coming from the existing WFCO power centre, it may help to realize that in many Escapes the same circuit breaker in the WFCO AC distribution panel supplies power to both the converter and another circuit in the trailer, using a pigtail like this. But again, while the installation manual is clear, the photo is not entirely clear, and no one just looking at the photo can safely tell anyone what to do.
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Old 10-29-2020, 03:27 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by MyronL View Post
WFCO in my 7 year old 19 needed an upgrade. It’s charger/converter won’t serve my new 100W Battleborn lithium battery. The replacement, a PowerMax PM3-55-MBA-LK (eBay $140), came yesterday. Agreed, Rubicon, should be an easy swap. Basically, five wires and done. I got that.

But – (“there’s always a but”) …. the one I got looks more different from yours, Rubico. Also, in reading the paperwork that came with mine, nothing is said about that pigtail black wire. See pix question mark. Assume it must be for a remote display, right? Since that’s a live wire I better wire nut and tape it just to be safe. No remote was included in the box.

Bigger question for me is dealing with switch A and switch B, seen in pix. That language got me totally confused. I will just quote it all here and hope you engineers provide a layman’s interpretation or, better, what to do.

And I quote:
“Adjust fixed voltage description:
“…The unit is on the three stage charging mode firstly. 1. Move the switch A to right, move switch B gently to adjust voltage from 13 - 16.sv, and get a fixed output voltage. 2. Make sure the voltage as 14.6v, move the switch A to left, then the unit back to standard “Three Stage Charging”, run 14.6V almost 0.5 hour, 13.6V almost 12 hours and then to 13.2V. The voltage value of 3 stage charging will be changed with fixed voltage changed when the unit on “Three stage charging” mode.”
What do I do with all that?? Very nervous about touching them miserable, tiny weird switches.
Myron: So you got a different unit. I thought you had the Progressive Dynamics unit coming but either way we'll get you through this. For the wiring see attached color pairings from the manual. It seems like you are most of the way there. Let me look closer at the picture and I'll respond further.

See this link for a better explanation from BattleBorn on the adjustment of the switch A and the potentiometer (switch B). It is for the PB3-55-LK but should be identical for just the main board assembly you are installing.
https://battlebornbatteries.com/powe...po4-batteries/
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WFCO to PowerMax wiring.JPG  
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Old 10-29-2020, 03:40 PM   #36
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For the wiring see attached color pairings from the manual. It seems like you are most of the way there. Let me look closer at the picture and I'll respond further.
Myron: !!Make sure you have all of your power off on both the 120V AC side and 12V DC side!! You have everything labeled correctly. Just to break this down -
DC side: Thick blue wire is DC POS which will go to "+VCC" on the WFCO 12V board, Thick white wire is DC NEG which goes to "NEG-" on the WFCO 12V board
AC side: Yellow with green stripe is ground which will go to WFCO ground buss, thin white wire is AC neutral that will go on neutral buss, and black is AC hot which will go to breaker

The extra black wire is there because it looks like they provided a utility pigtail. This is used because many converters are typically on a breaker with something else and you aren't supposed to put two wires directly on the breaker lug. How is the existing converter wired?

For my Progressive Dynamics unit this is what I did which is basically the same for you...On the AC side the small green wire (for you Myron it is yellow with green stripe) goes to the ground bar, the white wire to the neutral bar and black to the hot. My converter hot was twinned on a 15A breaker with the fridge with a “utility pigtail”. I presume this is common practice so that only one wire is under the breaker lug. I simply cut the black wire connection of the original converter and used a wire nut and electrical tape to tie in black on the new converter. On the DC side the thick white goes to the DC board negative lug “NEG-“ and the black (for you Myron it would be blue) goes to the DC board positive lug “+VCC”."
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Old 10-29-2020, 04:13 PM   #37
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I have that same wire colors table so was not expecting proper replacement connections of those wires to be a problem. Your black wire pigtail extra wire answer makes better sense. I will simply remove it. Of course all power, AC and DC, will be disconnected before I make any moves.

It's really that quoted paragraph on switching around them switches ("Adjust fixed voltage description") that is the confusing thing. Must been written by a Chinese guy. Guessing will ignore his switching suggestions.
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Old 10-29-2020, 04:21 PM   #38
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Tiny buggers.
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Old 10-29-2020, 04:33 PM   #39
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Whoops -- time out. Just went to the Battleborn page link you sent. Have printed their suggestions on the "adjusted fixed voltage" switches and, will be out there either today or tomorrow following what am reading.

How irritating and inconvenient... ...they show a different unit. Looks like I got to remove the entire WFCO from under the seat in order to be able to execute the adjusted fixed voltage. ("step 2 plug charger to ac source.") Bloody worms.

At least they say adjusting switch B needs a Phillips screwdriver. Was wondering about that.
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Old 10-29-2020, 05:14 PM   #40
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It's really that quoted paragraph on switching around them switches ("Adjust fixed voltage description") that is the confusing thing. Must been written by a Chinese guy. Guessing will ignore his switching suggestions.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MyronL View Post
Whoops -- time out. Just went to the Battleborn page link you sent. Have printed their suggestions on the "adjusted fixed voltage" switches and, will be out there either today or tomorrow following what am reading.

How irritating and inconvenient... ...they show a different unit. Looks like I got to remove the entire WFCO from under the seat in order to be able to execute the adjusted fixed voltage. ("step 2 plug charger to ac source.") Bloody worms.

At least they say adjusting switch B needs a Phillips screwdriver. Was wondering about that.
Myron: Battleborn does a nice job explaining it clearly but it is for a full unit which is plugged in to AC outlet and has output terminals that can be used to easily measure voltage.

For the main board assembly this is my interpretation of what would be the best approach:
-Start with AC power OFF via breaker and kill DC power via the battery isolation switch and/or disconnecting battery. It may be obvious but tow vehicle should also not be hooked up to 7 pin connector.

-Install the PowerMax assembly as discussed in above posts and following mfr wiring coding.

-With AC power still OFF slide switch A right to the “Fixed Voltage” or "Fixed Output" setting.

-Turn on breaker to provide AC power. Connect multimeter to positive and negative outputs of charger to measure the DC voltage output. This voltage can be best measured across the DC board lugs where the blue and white wires are connected. (If you are concerned with an initial high voltage (up to 16V??) to appliances/lights from the new converter pull the fuses from all the DC circuits to be safe)

-After getting your DC voltage reading only if needed take a Philips head screwdriver to gently adjust Switch B potentiometer until you have a voltage value of 14.4 V (or whatever you desire as the bulk charge voltage) on your multimeter.

-Once you have achieved desired voltage, remove AC power to the unit by shutting off breaker again and move switch A back to the left for “3 Stage Charging”.

-Finally reconnect battery power (via isolation switch or reconnecting to battery terminals). Turn on AC power via breaker. Measure the voltage at the battery and at the DC board terminals; these values should be about the same. If the voltage at the battery is significantly lower than 14.4 V, go back through adjustment protocol until the battery is 14.4V. **The only problem I see with this last step is that once you switch back to 3 stage charging you don't know what mode the charger is in. At bulk charge you'd be around 14.4, absorption Charge 13.6V and float Charge 13.2 V. I guess as long as they are the same at the DC board and battery you are fine. I believe they are just trying to account for voltage drop in the wiring but yours should be minimal.
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