WF-8955 LIS missing Li/LA battery switch/Led on circuit board

[Bayner]

Originally Posted by Jack!

Took most of the day but here's where this problem landed. Outcome was OK.

Apparently WFCO has recently come out with a new power center model...WFCO8955-AD-B, Auto-Dectect.
It can Auto-Dectect the battery type it's charging and change charging modes to match.

ETI currently is installing the legacy LIS power centers and the newest Auto-Detect power centers, both. I can't say how they decided what trailer gets what type power center. However, we are told the "covers" are stock piled on the production line as everything is unboxed. The electric workers install several trailers and the last thing that happens is they grab a cover from the stock pile.

So....our trailer had a AutoDetect power center installed but a worker grabbed a LIS cover & installed it. So that led to the missing Li switch problem, as our power center had an LIS cover & manual. The AutoDetect power centers have no switch.

Today, Dustin took pictures of an Auto-Detect circuit board and converter, sending those to me. I pulled out the converter from our power center. I was able to match our model/part numbers to the circuit board and converter pictures Dustin send to us.

The final step is we will do a swap, sending our LIS cover and manual to ETI. ETI will send an Auto-Dectect cover and manual to us.

Done deal...

Thanks for the update, that's a bit of good news.
Any chance you could post the photos from Dave? I'd love to see if I can narrow down which unit I have onboard... I have a cover for an LIS unit, a manual for a conventional unit and the possibility of an auto-detect unit it would seem.
I'll admit, some of their assembly line outcomes leave me wondering what the heck?!

[Brian B-P]

An "Auto-Detect" converter sounds like a recipe for many discussions of "why is my charger not operating properly for my battery type?" The battery doesn't randomly flip types, or get replaced casually, so this feature seems entirely worthless. A clear switch resulting in consistently correct behaviour would be better.

[Centex]

Originally Posted by Brian B-P

An "Auto-Detect" converter sounds like a recipe for many discussions of "why is my charger not operating properly for my battery type?" The battery doesn't randomly flip types, or get replaced casually, so this feature seems entirely worthless. A clear switch resulting in consistently correct behaviour would be better.

I share that opinion - IMO this 'feature' is a solution looking for a problem, likely to result in more questions than benefits over the long term.

[Jack!]

Originally Posted by 7Gentex

WF-8540-AD or the WF-8560-AD (what your attachment showed)

Or, the WF-8955-AD shown here:

https://wfcoelectronics.com/wp-conte...enterCat-1.pdf

I don't see the "B" suffix......?

Glad you found out what the deal was, it had me a bit after seeing some of the electrical related comments in other threads. (Like 30 amp thermal fuses limiting the charging rate...)

That's the stuff ETI emailed. I don't have much of anything on this new power center, but ETI called it a WFCO8955-AD-B. I got rid of those fuses you mentioned.

They are sending me the correct front panel with the right model number stickers and it has the schematic sticker on it, as well. Also they are sending the correct manual.

That's all I know at this point about this product. I can say my Li batteries have been sitting waiting on the trailer for several months, thus not fully charged. When I installed them the power center charged them at 13.6 volts. No higher bulk mode kicked in. I noted online a site that mentions the AutoDetect needs a full charge cycle or two to recognize the battery type.

Today I pulled the trailer out of the garage & let the sunshine do it's magic on the panels getting my batteries up to 14.2V. I'm expecting the Autodetect to recognize they are Lithium when I plug in the shore power, back in the garage. Fingers crossed...

[Jack!]

Originally Posted by Jack!

.
Today I pulled the trailer out of the garage & let the sunshine do it's magic on the panels getting my batteries up to 14.2V. I'm expecting the Autodetect to recognize they are Lithium when I plug in the shore power, back in the garage. Fingers crossed...

AutoDetect is working. The power center did not kick off a float trickle charge when I plugged into shore power with fully charged Li batteries. Looks to be doing 2 stage charging at this point.

Found the user manual. New product model number is

WFCO8955-AD-MBA

This is the link to the manual.

https://usermanual.wiki/m/4c9a09bb94...cf1020e688.pdf

[CharlesinGA]

Originally Posted by Brian B-P

An "Auto-Detect" converter sounds like a recipe for many discussions of "why is my charger not operating properly for my battery type?" The battery doesn't randomly flip types, or get replaced casually, so this feature seems entirely worthless. A clear switch resulting in consistently correct behaviour would be better.

Indeed. This sounds like hokey Chinese engineering to me. How can a converter figure out what it is charging? and yes, you should be able to just set it to what you have and be done with it.

Charles

[Jack!]

Originally Posted by CharlesinGA

Indeed. This sounds like hokey Chinese engineering to me. How can a converter figure out what it is charging? and yes, you should be able to just set it to what you have and be done with it.

Charles

From what I have seen so far, the Auto-Dectect has a mirco processor that evaluates the charging cycle and watches the voltages. I had to get my Li batteries fully charged to 14.4 volts or higher, and then the 2 stage charging kicked in, Auto-Dectect learning the batteries are Li.

When I initially hooked up the batteries the power center was doing a float charge at 13.6v or 3 stage charging and now it isn't. I'm guessing the default is 3 stage charging and betting if I unhook my batteries it may take another "full" charge cycle to kick over to 2 stage charging again.

I'm not planning to test that.

[Vermilye]

While I'm not a great fan of WFCO converters (my previous 55 amp WFCO converter never produced anywhere near 55 amps no matter how low my lead acid batteries were), it doesn't take much in the way of a "smart" microprocessor to determine which type of battery it is connected to, at least when full.

At rest fully charged lead acid battery is not going to exceed 12.8V or so. A fully charged lithium battery will show about 13.2V. that is a big enough difference to measure. All the converter needs to do is stop charging & check the voltage.

I suspect this is why Jack's converter ran in the 3 stage mode until the lithium battery was fully charged. Once the resting voltage is above 13V or so, the converter switches to the 2 stage lithium settings. If it works as the manual describes, it is an ideal solution for a dealer that sells trailers with a lithium option - no wrong converter or wrong switch/jumper position. Of course, it is a WFCO converter, so time will tell.

[Jack!]

I was thinking along the same lines. Doesn't seem auto detect does much of anything for me over and above what a switchable LIS model would do. Seems ETI would benefit by installing autodetect, as its one less thing to sort when building trailers with differing battery chemistries.

Our Casita had a WFCO that had no issues for 14 years but that was a single AGM battery situation. Will see how this one handles Li batteries.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by Jack!

... Doesn't seem auto detect does much of anything for me over and above what a switchable LIS model would do. Seems ETI would benefit by installing autodetect, as its one less thing to sort when building trailers with differing battery chemistries.

Yes, and the real beneficiary is WFCO, which saves the cost of a switch in exchange for a few more lines of code in the processor that the converter has anyway. They just cheaped out.

[alanmalk]

Originally Posted by Brian B-P

Yes, and the real beneficiary is WFCO, which saves the cost of a switch in exchange for a few more lines of code in the processor that the converter has anyway. They just cheaped out.

Another example of using "auto-detect" code. Saved Volkswagen a bundle - until they got caught - to auto-detect when the car was on the emissions tester vs. being driven. To use computer pseudo-code: ...has the steering wheel been turned in the last 10 seconds... No => switch off a couple of fuel injectors to reduce emissions.

Easy-Peasy.

[bborzell]

FWIW, while doing some housekeeping in the camper this morning (21C), I got to thinking that the converter charger hadn’t made much noise since we picked up the trailer in November of ‘21.

Most of the time, the solar panels have had good exposure to the sun so SOC for the 2 lithium batteries has always been up around 100%.

So, today, when I noticed that SOC was at 70% and voltage was 13.2, I decided to check out the converter setting on our “full solar package”. The switch had been set from ETI at Lead Acid.

After switching to the correct setting, the converter came on, the amperage went up, voltage increased to 13.6 V and, within 30 minutes the SOC on the battery monitor was reading 100%.

Given that having the switch on the converter necessitates a decision point for workers at ETI, perhaps changing to the auto detection board was an attempt to minimize situations like I discovered today.

[cpaharley2008]

My check list at delivery is getting longer......

[rubicon327]

Originally Posted by bborzell

Given that having the switch on the converter necessitates a decision point for workers at ETI, perhaps changing to the auto detection board was an attempt to minimize situations like I discovered today.

All they need is a QA checklist and someone to go through every trailer at completion. This should be standard practice for any respectable manufacturer. The solar controllers need to be set up properly too for a given battery type.

[bborzell]

Originally Posted by cpaharley2008

My check list at delivery is getting longer......

Given that I typically confirm that I am getting what I paid for, I felt kinda dumb when I saw that the switch didn’t appear to be in the right place. Also noticed that my reading glasses required me to do several head in and out focus adjustments while on my stomach in order to determine which way the switch was pointing.

There are two greenish/yellow LEDs to look for, one on either side of the red switch. If both are illuminated, then the converter charger is in Lithium mode.

[Rockhead]

Originally Posted by rubicon327

All they need is a QA checklist and someone to go through every trailer at completion. This should be standard practice for any respectable manufacturer. The solar controllers need to be set up properly too for a given battery type.

That might require thought and common sense on their part. Something that is very lacking today