Which generator needed to run a/c

[daveandsandyclink]

Brian,
I have the newer 2012 model 600312.331. I got to run but it tripped the generator breaker in a short time. Then I started reading the Dometic owners manual about low power amperage possibly damaging the compressor and decided to quit my trial test. My thinking was to use it while waiting for roadside help on a hot, Texas day. I live @300 ft elevation, the test temperature was about 80 degrees. Everything shut off but the AC. My Honda has low hours with no apparent performance issues and eco mode was off.

[Dave Walter]

Originally Posted by daveandsandyclink

Brian,
I have the newer 2012 model 600312.331. I got to run but it tripped the generator breaker in a short time. Then I started reading the Dometic owners manual about low power amperage possibly damaging the compressor and decided to quit my trial test. My thinking was to use it while waiting for roadside help on a hot, Texas day. I live @300 ft elevation, the test temperature was about 80 degrees. Everything shut off but the AC. My Honda has low hours with no apparent performance issues and eco mode was off.

That is really interesting to hear. I assume that you have the Honda 2000?

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by daveandsandyclink

I have the newer 2012 model 600312.331. I got to run but it tripped the generator breaker in a short time... I live @300 ft elevation, the test temperature was about 80 degrees. Everything shut off but the AC. My Honda has low hours with no apparent performance issues and eco mode was off.

Thanks. I wonder why the difference between this and Reace's test experience - just ambient temperature?

[TAfraser]

This may not help, but here goes. I just came from a 17' casita and I always carry a generator on longer trips. When I started researching what size I needed, I first looked at the forums. At that time many others were having trouble with the Honda 2000 powering their air conditioners. The Casita used a 9000W unit without a soft start installed. Everyone seemed to be installing soft start units in their air conditioners, or going to great lengths, light off procedures, in order to use the 2000W Hondas. I did the math, sorry I don't have it with me, but the Hondas were right on the edge of being unable to power the A/Cs. When the AC compressor would light off it would take the Honda into it's overload section. If the AC draw would settle down quick enough, everything would be OK, but that didn't always happen. Remember, there are tolerances to everything. Buying a unit that's "just big enough" doesn't leave much leeway. If you didn't happen to get the most efficient AC unit, you could have issues. Hence, tripping of the breaker. With this knowledge, I purchased the Yamaha 2400. I didn't have any issues with the Yamaha. It produced enough continuous power to take in the overload area of the Honda. The Yamaha is within 1dB of the Honda, so it to is very quiet. Just a note, a 3dB increase in sound will double the volume. One bad part of the Yamaha is that it's heavier then the Honda. Both Honda and Yamaha are quality units, and both have new units out today that are better suited to cover the area we need covered. I just hope that my Yamaha will power my new 21. The math tells me that I'm now on the edge, but that the air conditioners installed by Escape on the new trailers have soft starts as standard.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by TAfraser

The Casita used a 9000W unit without a soft start installed.

That would presumably be 9000 BTU/hour (not watts)... just a typo.

Originally Posted by padlin

70db is twice as loud as 60db

I believe that's ten times, actually, because it is 10 dB or one bel difference.

Originally Posted by TAfraser

Just a note, a 3dB increase in sound will double the volume.

"dB" is the symbol for decibel, which is one-tenth of a "bel", which is a factor of ten in intensity (sound pressure in this case). So every 10 dB is ten times the sound pressure and 3 dB is a doubling - it's a logarithmic scale. Hearing is not linearly sensitive - twice as much sound pressure does not sound twice as loud to us - and in fact it's at least close to logarithmic so decibels indicating relative sound levels works decently as an indication of how loud something is.

In short, small numbers of decibels can be meaningful in terms of annoyance.

[Mountain Mike]

We have air conditioning on our 19' and use the Yamaha 2400 generator. It has more than enough power to operate the air conditioner. I felt the Honda would be running at near capacity so decided to purchase a unit with some extra capacity. No regrets.

[padlin]

Originally Posted by Brian B-P

I believe that's ten times, actually, because it is 10 dB or one bel difference.

I stand corrected, thanks.

[TAfraser]

Brian, you’re right, it’s 9000 BTU, not 9000W for the Casita. I really shouldn't put my 2 cents in while watching TV and ordering Christmas presents.

I looked up the AC unit Escape uses for the 21 from Dometic. They give power requirements for the 11,000 BTU unit and suggest a minimum generator size of 2.5KW. They also make the following statement; “Dometic Corporation gives GENERAL guidelines for generator requirements. These guidelines come from experiences people have had in actual applications. When sizing the generator, the total power usage of your recreational vehicle must be considered. Keep in mind generators lose power at high altitudes and from lack of maintenance.”

Using their power requirement numbers for compressor and fan only, Compressor 10.5A and Fan 3.5A, gives a minimum power requirement of 1680W. I couldn't find the start-up requirements so I can’t report on that. I was told by Escape that these units have the “Soft-Start” circuits installed. Having the soft-start will certainly help, I just don’t know by how much.

You are also right about sound volume. Doubling the power, +3dB, doubles the sound wave, or pressure. But due to our ears reaction to those sound waves, best between 1KHz-4KHz, we don’t hear the change as it’s presented, in a logarithmic progression. Each individual will have a different experience, depending on many personal things, but overall, a small change in decibels will make a large difference in those comfort levels. I've camped where the generator next to us drowned out the sound from our, much closer, Yamaha generator, and there were trees and shrubs between us. It was a relief when they turned theirs off.

[Dave Walter]

So far the responses from those who have actually used a generator to power the A/C are:

Reace - Honda 2000 seemed to work OK for Escape 19' A/C (at Chilliwack?)
DaveandSandyClink - Honda 2000 - marginal/failed for Escape 19' A/C
MountainMike - Yamaha 2400 successful on Escape 19' A/C
TAfraser - Yamaha 2400 successful on 9000BTU A/C on Casita (unknown on Escape 21' A/C)

The success of those using the Honda 2000 seems to be limited and this generator is likely working right at or slightly beyond its upper limit when powering the Escape 19' A/C. The Yamaha 2400 seems to work ok with the 11000 BTU A/C on the 19'.

Would be good to get more experience documented from other actual users of generators. thanks

[daveandsandyclink]

Search in the archives for "Honda EU 2000i and Dometic Penguin A/C with Smart Start. There you will find a thread started by Harold Kroeker who I believe knows what he is talking about. He has tried to make his air conditioner run on the Honda 2K. You should also do some research on just how long the Honda 2000i or any small generator will run under full load.
Basically it come down to this...when it is hot, find a campground with power, tuff it out, go to a cooler location, or stay home.

[Vermilye]

To add even more confusion to db measurements, while 10 db is 10X the sound pressure level, loudness is subjective. If you ask 1000 people to turn up a sound source until it is twice as loud, a sound pressure meter on the A weighted scale (one that matches hearing frequency response) would indicate a measured 10db increase. 1 db is about the smallest difference a trained ear can detect. Aren't logarithmic scales interesting?

[Jim Bennett]

Originally Posted by Vermilye

Aren't logarithmic scales interesting?

Even though I have a decent understanding, I still say NO!
Good explanation though, Jon.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by daveandsandyclink

Search in the archives for "Honda EU 2000i and Dometic Penguin A/C with Smart Start.

Since I did the search to read the topic, here's the link: http://www.escapeforum.org/forums/f1...start-799.html

[Bruce Wray]

Honda 3000i Handi. 77 lbs. dry. The AC needs 2400 watts to start, a 2000 won't do it. Works for us in our 19, but I've only needed it twice.

Bruce

[spud233]

honda 2000 or 3000 will work fine.quite and portable.we really use them in rescue and fire fighting work. can be found most any where.good place to look is camping world.

[gocamp]

Another soft start option that might help

"I contacted Micro-Air and asked them about their soft starters, and which one would work with our RV A/C units. I was told: The EasyStart 3T will provide a minimum of a 50% decrease in the Locked Rotor Amp (LRA), bringing the A/C amp spike to (or below) 31a"

Air Conditioning Off Grid

[allanmacdonald]

Inverter Generator information: youtube/LongLongHoneymoon, this guy has a link and has tested numerous IG's Real time tests, sound testing, load testing, moveability, you name it,
his site is worth looking at.......check it out, and remember is you want clean power for your electronics don't use construction type generators because they are not "clean"..

[escape artist]

Hi: All... After camping for 4 days at Boot Hill Country Music Jamboree I really got to dislike Gens. Every one around us had one running most of the day. Phew!!! Smelled like I should have been home cutting the grass and most were cheap noisy units too. Alf
escape artist N.S. of Lake Erie

[cpaharley2008]

I'd like to see Alf doing the "2 step".....

[allanmacdonald]

Originally Posted by escape artist

Hi: All... After camping for 4 days at Boot Hill Country Music Jamboree I really got to dislike Gens. Every one around us had one running most of the day. Phew!!! Smelled like I should have been home cutting the grass and most were cheap noisy units too. Alf
escape artist N.S. of Lake Erie

R U sure it was generator smoke u could smell, and what kind of "grass" was getting cut??