Winterizing, Batteries and Solar

[Donna D.]

Hive mind, I need some help.

The 2-6volt batteries in Ten Forward are more than 7 years old now. However, they're doing just fine! Maybe...

I have a single ETI installed solar panel.

My concern is over this next winter. What bad things, if any, will happen if the batteries totally die?

I know fully charged batteries won't freeze, but what kind of damage can I expect IF the batteries die and then freeze? Will it damage the solar in any way or just make a mess in the battery box? Is there ANY chance of a fire?

Would it be better to disconnect the batteries? They'd have to stay in the battery box over the winter however. How would I disconnect the solar?

I really don't want to buy new batteries and then have the trailer sit for more than five months. There's no way to connect the trailer to electric. It's in a non-powered storage yard.


Thanks!

[Starbrightsteve]

Can the solar panel see the sun in the storage yard or is the trailer under cover? The panel will keep the batteries charged unless there is a ton of snow on the top. Even old batteries.

[Donna D.]

Originally Posted by Starbrightsteve

Can the solar panel see the sun in the storage yard or is the trailer under cover? The panel will keep the batteries charged unless there is a ton of snow on the top. Even old batteries.

Yes, the solar panel can see the sun in the storage yard. It's not under cover of any kind. The storage yard may be a bit shaded during part of the day.

[HABBERDABBER]

Originally Posted by Donna D.

Hive mind, I need some help.

The 2-6volt batteries in Ten Forward are more than 7 years old now. However, they're doing just fine! Maybe...

I have a single ETI installed solar panel.

My concern is over this next winter. What bad things, if any, will happen if the batteries totally die?

I know fully charged batteries won't freeze, but what kind of damage can I expect IF the batteries die and then freeze? Will it damage the solar in any way or just make a mess in the battery box? Is there ANY chance of a fire?

Would it be better to disconnect the batteries? They'd have to stay in the battery box over the winter however. How would I disconnect the solar?

I really don't want to buy new batteries and then have the trailer sit for more than five months. There's no way to connect the trailer to electric. It's in a non-powered storage yard.


Thanks!

Your batteries are OLD, OLD...like us. If they freeze, no fire but you could potentially have a very nasty acid leak...sulphuric acid, I believe. Keep them charging with the solar. And hope Santa brings you some new ones. 5 years life is typical, some can go longer, or shorter. Don't disconnect. They self-discharge pretty quickly, and would be toast after 5 months if disconnected. Lead acid simply doesn't do well when taken way down in voltage. It effects and damages internal chemistry and materials.

OR...disconnect, bring them home, keep them on a charger AND buy new batteries next Spring. You may be walking a thinning ice with 7 year old lead acids. NO.......you are!

You don't NEED battery power during Winter storage. For what?

No damage to the solar, as far as I can reckon.

[Starbrightsteve]

I think that as long as there is adequate fluid in your batteries and solar is providing some charge, the batteries will be fine for winter storage. 7 years is close to the end of their life and an alternative is to shut things down in the trailer and pull the batteries to store them at your place until spring and then trade them in on something new.

[Donna D.]

I'm definitely planning on buying new batteries in the Spring. Just concerned about any damage if the batteries fail over the winter. I don't want to take them out and bring them home. They'd be out under the carport and would definitely freeze out there over the winter. Might create a huge mess. I have no plans to try and save them for future camping.

[Iowa Dave]

You will need the batteries as “core charge” When you get new ones .Gone are the days of $1.50 “junk batteries”. If you have electricity service under your car port you could store them there and use a battery tender to keep them charged. Or perhaps if you have a friend in the battery business you could make the deal now for new batteries, turn the old ones in now and pick up your “new ones” first thing in the spring. That’s providing you could get a receipt stating Later delivery. One thing about it you will have to eventually pull them, lift and haul them. From the Escape direct
To the battery store and from the store to the Escape would be the most efficient switch. Fresh ones in the spring is preferable. How can it be 7 years already?
Iowa Dave

[alanmalk]

Originally Posted by Donna D.

I'm definitely planning on buying new batteries in the Spring. Just concerned about any damage if the batteries fail over the winter. I don't want to take them out and bring them home. They'd be out under the carport and would definitely freeze out there over the winter. Might create a huge mess. I have no plans to try and save them for future camping.

Just wondering - if you plan to take them out in the spring, why not take them out now and bring them directly to a recycling facility?

But you are correct in that if left to self-discharge they could easily freeze at slightly sub-freezing temperatures, followed by the "huge mess".

On the other hand, if they have some life in them currently, and are kept on solar, they should survive intact in the trailer. Make sure the main disconnect switch is "OFF" so no sneaky appliances pull power out of the battery. If in the worst case they do freeze, it will not harm the solar or charger. The 160 watt solar panel might be generating 80 watts in the winter and doesn't provide enough power to melt insulation. And the charger is designed to recharge an almost dead battery which practically resembles a short circuit - so it is robust enough to survive almost anything a frozen battery can emulate. The biggest worry is the acid from a split case. Make sure your battery box is in good condition to retain any free acid.

--
Alan

[HABBERDABBER]

A buddy has an off-the grid cabin, solar and batteries to run lights, a compost toilet fan and small well water pump. A heavy snow covering the solar panels and record long cloudy period negated his solar. Oh..a northern Wisconsin Polar Vortex cold snap to boot. His compost toilet had a small exhaust fan, which drew down the batteries over the extended "no charge" time and they froze. A couple of $$grand$$ in lead acid were KAPUT!

Live and learn. A low BATTERY voltage shut-off system is not a bad investment, I believe, for his system.

[Donna D.]

Originally Posted by alanmalk

On the other hand, if they have some life in them currently, and are kept on solar, they should survive intact in the trailer. Make sure the main disconnect switch is "OFF" so no sneaky appliances pull power out of the battery. If in the worst case they do freeze, it will not harm the solar or charger. The 160 watt solar panel might be generating 80 watts in the winter and doesn't provide enough power to melt insulation. And the charger is designed to recharge an almost dead battery which practically resembles a short circuit - so it is robust enough to survive almost anything a frozen battery can emulate. The biggest worry is the acid from a split case. Make sure your battery box is in good condition to retain any free acid.

--
Alan

Thanks Alan, the info I needed. I checked the batteries about a week and a half ago. 13.8 was the reading I got, so I'm thinking they're fine for now. Topped off with distilled water in the batteries, didn't take much. The battery box is in good shape.

I always disconnect switch to "OFF" during storage. And remove all disposable batteries from the trailer in the winter. Don't want those to split and ruin flashlights, the emergency radio or the smoke detector.

I guess I was just worried about a dang fire if the batteries truly died over the winter and the solar had nothing to charge.

Thanks everyone!

[alanmalk]

Actually, I wasn't finished, just distracted by the smell of freshly baked cookies coming from the kitchen. I'm sure you understand...

The absolute answer to "will my batteries freeze?" is to measure the specific gravity of the electrolyte (something I would never do personally because it is too close to actual work).

With your trusty hydrometer - (you do have a hydrometer, right?) - compare the specific gravity readings to these charts I lifted from
https://www.mathscinotes.com/2013/02...freezing-math/
Then you will know exactly what temperature will freeze your batteries.
--
Alan

[Donna D.]

Hahahaha, that sounds like too much work! I don't care if they freeze. I can deal with a mess. I've ruined my share of shirts and pants over the years to know to protect everything from sulfuric acid if they do crack when pulling them out of the trailer.

The trailer is going to be stored 2-1/2 hours south of me. Pretty mild winter temperatures except a couple of years ago when it snowed and stayed below freezing for a few days.

But, I'm hopeful everything will be okay. Time will tell.

Enjoy your cookies!

[alanmalk]

Originally Posted by Donna D.

...
13.8 was the reading I got, so I'm thinking they're fine for now.

...

I'm sure all Escape owners know, but just in case...

If you want to judge the SOC (state of charge), you must disconnect the batteries from all sources of power AND all sources of discharge, for a minimum of one hour (and preferably 24 hours) and then measure the voltage.

If you see 13.8 while it is light outside, and your solar charger is running, then 13.8 more or less indicates the solar system is working correctly - but this is not the SOC.
--
Alan


PS The cookies were great, but too few in number.

[oldwave]

One things that I am doing that Escape should have designed in the camper is a solar disconnect:
https://youtu.be/HOXnWXvLXko

The parts aren’t expensive and the wiring is quite simple inserting the switch just before the charge controller. I’ll be installing mine as part of my inverter upgrade that’s coming. Also meets the latest code for solar panel installs.
I’d cut a deal with a battery supplier and exchange the cores now. If not I suspect your solar will keep,the batteries though one more winter unless a cell fails.

However, the safest would be wire in the disconnect switch and remove the batteries for the winter, which is what I intend to do,this year.

[Donna D.]

Originally Posted by alanmalk

If you want to judge the SOC (state of charge), you must disconnect the batteries from all sources of power AND all sources of discharge, for a minimum of one hour (and preferably 24 hours) and then measure the voltage.

If you see 13.8 while it is light outside, and your solar charger is running, then 13.8 more or less indicates the solar system is working correctly - but this is not the SOC.
--
Alan

Well, that's NOT convenient. But I learned something. All along I thought all I needed to do what put my handy dandy 12 volt meter in the 12 volt socket and watch it light up and read the display.

Still not going back to a tent.

[alanmalk]

Originally Posted by Donna D.

Well, that's NOT convenient.

...

How true.
I simplified my life by going to the battery binary system.
If my lights, pumps and furnace are working, then my SOC is good.
Otherwise - bad. Maybe once a year look under the table at the voltage...