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Old 06-26-2014, 12:45 AM   #1
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border crossings

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Originally Posted by MarksAlot View Post
Made me and the boys sit on a bench while they went through my truck, trailer and iPhone, ipad and laptop. Even wanted my passwords for them.
It sounds like both the supreme courts of Canada and the USA have ruled that search warrants are required for computer and phone searches. Do we wave our rights to unreasonable searches at border crossings?

http://bccla.org/news/2013/11/supreme-court-of-canada-rules-warrant-required-for-computer-and-cell-phone-searches/

http://www.policeone.com/arrests/articles/7322513-Supreme-Court-rules-warrant-required-to-search-cell-phones/
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Old 06-26-2014, 01:13 AM   #2
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Depends how long you want to sit there.
They'll ask if they can search. If you say no, then you'll have to wait while they obtain a search warrant and you've created a reasonable suspicion.
Your choice. Good luck.
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Old 06-26-2014, 01:24 AM   #3
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I got stopped in a drinking/driving roadblock one night on my way home from work.
The officer was enjoying a prolonged conversation with the woman in the car ahead of me, laughing and chatting.
When she finally took off, he got to me.
I opened the conversation with, "Well, did you have a pleasant conversation"?
He said, "Pull over".
He took my license and registration and went back to his car, for 20 minutes.
As he arrived at my driver door, I said, "nothing, eh"?
To which, he said, "your license plate light is out".
And, I said, "So, give me a ticket".
And he said, "I wouldn't give you the pleasure".

Reminded me of two kids in a playground.

Took me an extra half hour to get home to the nice cold beer that was waiting for me.

And, I'm not making accusations, but all it took to fix the license plate light was to plug the wire back in.
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Old 06-26-2014, 02:15 AM   #4
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Depends how long you want to sit there.
They'll ask if they can search. If you say no, then you'll have to wait while they obtain a search warrant and you've created a reasonable suspicion.
Your choice. Good luck.
Not exactly how it works in the US Gbaglo, yes they might delay you to annoy you, but delaying you to get a search warrant not likely. Refusal of a search and asserting your rights does not generate probable cause and or enough cause to gain a search warrant. They are getting much tougher to get unlike what they show on TV.

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Old 06-26-2014, 02:25 AM   #5
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Well, you know what you're talking about.
I just know from experience that it doesn't pay to be a jerk when dealing with officials. Yes sir, and no sir works a lot better.
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Old 06-26-2014, 01:23 PM   #6
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request for passwords

I muddled my real concern by asking about searches. I have had to turn on and log into my computer for airport security, and that is fine (although necessary or legal, I don't know).

The request for passwords is what really caught my attention in MarksAlot experience. I'm not sure how I would react to such a request.
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Old 06-26-2014, 01:54 PM   #7
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Yes Gbaglo, you are correct it does not really pay to be a jerk , I do not mind complying for small things but if asked to give them my password to my computer / tablet etc the answer will be no. I have to prove it works that is all. Now referring back your right it really doesn't pay however, in the case of passwords if you give them the password and they poke around and find say an image file nothing wrong right? It is after all only a picture of one of your grandkids ( if you have them) in a tub playing with bubbles ... Want to roll the dice on what happens then ? It is all up to interpretation of the person searching. The mess the wrong interpretation will cause you is beyond description. So yeah you want to search my vehicle sure, camper go for it my computer , tablet, phone no sorry more then happy to if you have a warrant.

Cypher

http://blogs.findlaw.com/law_and_life/2010/11/naked-baby-photos-lead-to-parents-arrest.html

http://www.securitymanagement.com/news/us-supreme-court-shields-cell-phones-warrantless-searches-0013530
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Old 06-26-2014, 06:54 PM   #8
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Moral of the story: discharge batteries from all devices before you get to the border crossing.
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Old 06-26-2014, 07:49 PM   #9
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Moral of the story: discharge batteries from all devices before you get to the border crossing.
They may not let you take the item unless you can at least prove it boots up and operates. I have had to put even my spare laptop battery in to prove what that was but that was long ago I do not fly anywhere if I can avoid it these days.

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Old 06-26-2014, 08:01 PM   #10
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They may not let you take the item unless you can at least prove it boots up and operates. I have had to put even my spare laptop battery in to prove what that was but that was long ago I do not fly anywhere if I can avoid it these days.

Cypher
Sounds a bit paranoid to me. I've never had a problem, nor been asked to boot up anything, even at a US airport, and I travel internationally several times a year.
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Old 06-26-2014, 08:55 PM   #11
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I've never had a problem, nor been asked to boot up anything, even at a US airport, and I travel internationally several times a year.
The turn-it-on check was normal in the hysteria immediately after 2001, but then faded away; I haven't seen it requested for years.
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Old 06-26-2014, 10:46 PM   #12
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They may not let you take the item unless you can at least prove it boots up and operates. I have had to put even my spare laptop battery in to prove what that was but that was long ago I do not fly anywhere if I can avoid it these days.

Cypher
Hence the bold statement
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Old 06-26-2014, 11:06 PM   #13
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Be nice Be honest

I've been a cop for 47 years. The border folks have a tough job. Just be honest and straightforward and they will respond accordingly. Sometimes you can run across someone having a bad day and will treat you in a less than reasonable way. It's because they are as human as we are. They want you to clear the border and you want to clear the border. Make it as easy on them as you can and it will be as easy on you as they can make it.
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Old 06-26-2014, 11:10 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by tractors1 View Post
Moral of the story: discharge batteries from all devices before you get to the border crossing.
Charlie I like your thinking
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Old 06-26-2014, 11:32 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by tractors1
Moral of the story: discharge batteries from all devices before you get to the border crossing.

I don't understand this suggestion. If you have dead batteries, and if you don't have AC, or even if you do, you can't start up your device, which is what they are asking you to do. Please explain the concept of making life more difficult for them and for yourself.
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Old 06-26-2014, 11:41 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sokol View Post
I've been a cop for 47 years. The border folks have a tough job. Just be honest and straightforward and they will respond accordingly. Sometimes you can run across someone having a bad day and will treat you in a less than reasonable way. It's because they are as human as we are. They want you to clear the border and you want to clear the border. Make it as easy on them as you can and it will be as easy on you as they can make it.

How true.

As a news photog I would often come in 'conflict' with authorities. At a fire scene I might be prevented from getting to a position I thought I needed to be to get the picture. And, if I wasn't a **** I might learn that if I went to that location, I would be under a high voltage line that might drop on me at any moment.
It may be that the authority you are having problems with is having a bad day, or it may be that he has information that you don't have.
And, doesn't work with border guards, but at a fire scene, I would just retreat and find another way in. The officer couldn't leave his position, and I couldn't hear him yelling at me. I really couldn't.
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Old 06-26-2014, 11:55 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by gbaglo View Post
Originally Posted by tractors1
Moral of the story: discharge batteries from all devices before you get to the border crossing.

I don't understand this suggestion. If you have dead batteries, and if you don't have AC, or even if you do, you can't start up your device, which is what they are asking you to do. Please explain the concept of making life more difficult for them and for yourself.
I myself just took took Charlie quote on the light side I don't think he was being serious. I agree 100% with you .
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Old 06-27-2014, 12:41 AM   #18
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Hoping a joke.
When traveling, I was advised to ensure that your laptop batteries were fully charged in case they asked you to turn them on. There isn't always AC nearby.
Had to empty my camera bag. Turn on cameras. Take all lens caps off so they could peer through the lenses.
Got a round of applause from a couple women in the line once when I dramatically removed my belt ( must have reminded them of a male stripper they'd seen ).
Did all that and then a PA announcement told me to return to the ticket booth. Office told me not to get on the plane but to head to Kimberly where three paramedics had died in an accident.
Rented the car I had just turned in and went back to work.
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Old 06-27-2014, 02:15 AM   #19
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The turn-it-on check was normal in the hysteria immediately after 2001, but then faded away; I haven't seen it requested for years.
That's about the right time frame. I was flying with a small CAD plotter. Turn it on I was told. I think the guy thought it was some kind of laptop. Can't turn it on and said it's a plotter, not a laptop. He said OK I'll have to look inside and rooted through a drawer and came up with a Phillips screwdriver

In a panic I pulled out some examples of the drawings that a plotter produces, gave everyone in earshot a quick lesson in CAD drawing. I was sweating because the plotter had to be in working condition in another city very soon. They relented and I made my flight with an intact plotter. Seems kind of funny now but I was sure sweating bullets at the time.

And you're right, the turn it on thing has kind of faded away now.

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Old 06-27-2014, 09:10 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by sokol View Post
I've been a cop for 47 years. The border folks have a tough job. Just be honest and straightforward and they will respond accordingly. Sometimes you can run across someone having a bad day and will treat you in a less than reasonable way. It's because they are as human as we are. They want you to clear the border and you want to clear the border. Make it as easy on them as you can and it will be as easy on you as they can make it.
I agree 100% and that is my approach at any border crossing or airport security. I've found honesty and friendliness to be the best approach, always. If you don't have anything to hide you won't have to try to hide anything.

So good to hear a cop chime in.
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